I've commited myself to Arch


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aphanic
6 hours ago, Brandon H said:

I've never successfully installed Gentoo :rofl: 

I'm in that group as well! Gentoo/Funtoo is something that I've never successfully installed, but I reckon I didn't have the time or real drive to run any of those distributions, for me it was just curiosity and didn't delve into resolving the issues I had encountered.

 

After that, on we go to LFS... 😄

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cmcgregor80
On 17/11/2020 at 09:44, Brandon H said:

I've never successfully installed Gentoo :rofl: you have to manually compile everything yourself.

Is there a specific spot you get stuck on? The install docs are pretty self explanatory as far as getting a basic system up and running.

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Brandon H
17 minutes ago, cmcgregor80 said:

Is there a specific spot you get stuck on? The install docs are pretty self explanatory as far as getting a basic system up and running.

can't remember, it's been about a decade since I last tried if I'm honest

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sinetheo

One question I have is how stable is Arch? Will an update break it with a bug? A rolling release where Arch developers admit you should bug the developers writting the program is a big turn off for me.

 

I like running older software with teams fixing bugs in userland. I love FreeBSD because it has a userland team in addition to the kernel. Linux Mint for example was the last distro I used and like the fact it's stable. I am still on Windows 10 1909 with feature updates delayed for 365 days. 2004 still can't game due to latencies in the hundreds of milliseconds with the mouse for example ??!

 

I am tempted to use Arch to learn Unix. But I don't want cinnamon to be crashing, Xorg randomly restarting and forum members telling me to RTFM and go bug Nvidia. Not our problem! I am not saying this is the experience but I want to make sure before I jump into it.

 

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adrynalyne
3 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

One question I have is how stable is Arch? Will an update break it with a bug? A rolling release where Arch developers admit you should bug the developers writting the program is a big turn off for me.

 

I like running older software with teams fixing bugs in userland. I love FreeBSD because it has a userland team in addition to the kernel. Linux Mint for example was the last distro I used and like the fact it's stable. I am still on Windows 10 1909 with feature updates delayed for 365 days. 2004 still can't game due to latencies in the hundreds of milliseconds with the mouse for example ??!

 

I am tempted to use Arch to learn Unix. But I don't want cinnamon to be crashing, Xorg randomly restarting and forum members telling me to RTFM and go bug Nvidia. Not our problem! I am not saying this is the experience but I want to make sure before I jump into it.

 

Read the thread. Also, 2004 works fine for gaming. 

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sinetheo
On 17/11/2020 at 14:54, aphanic said:

I'm in that group as well! Gentoo/Funtoo is something that I've never successfully installed, but I reckon I didn't have the time or real drive to run any of those distributions, for me it was just curiosity and didn't delve into resolving the issues I had encountered.

 

After that, on we go to LFS... 😄

Gentoo is not a noun I heard in a long time. Is it still around? Everyone kept going on about FreeBSD so I decided to just buy FreeBSD with the think handbook which had the ports. I found it more stable out of the box and kept using that instead

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Brandon H
Just now, sinetheo said:

One question I have is how stable is Arch? Will an update break it with a bug? A rolling release where Arch developers admit you should bug the developers writting the program is a big turn off for me.

 

I like running older software with teams fixing bugs in userland. I love FreeBSD because it has a userland team in addition to the kernel. Linux Mint for example was the last distro I used and like the fact it's stable. I am still on Windows 10 1909 with feature updates delayed for 365 days. 2004 still can't game due to latencies in the hundreds of milliseconds with the mouse for example ??!

 

I am tempted to use Arch to learn Unix. But I don't want cinnamon to be crashing, Xorg randomly restarting and forum members telling me to RTFM and go bug Nvidia. Not our problem! I am not saying this is the experience but I want to make sure before I jump into it.

 

that's what we were trying to discuss/advise above. Vanilla Arch is bound to break every now and then when big things change but if you use an Arch based distro like Manjaro or the like then they usually compensate for such things and have much less chance of breaking.

 

I've broken Arch a few times in my day but never on an Arch based distro like Manjaro. Manjaro uses XFCE by default but it does have other flavors just like most distros to use ANY of the available DEs really. I would highly recommend it as a starting distro for Arch and Linux in general.

 

Honestly I've never had an experience like you've described either; Arch has an excellent and friendly community from my experience; especially where the AUR repo is concerned since it's community run.

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sinetheo
19 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Read the thread. Also, 2004 works fine for gaming. 

2004 didn't work well for this guy who did a full analysis on the the mouse lag.

 

 

Basically what Windows was doing was making full screen games Windowed games in full screen mode instead. It makes it feel like you're floating with input lag as a result.

 

He did another video comparing 2010 to 1809 which helped a little but still had a little input lag and worse .1% lows in 3 different gaming engines. 

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aphanic

May I ask how powerful is the system you have @sinetheo? What you're wondering is a fair, how stable can a rolling release distribution be, but I ask because if it's recent enough you could try out Arch in a VM to see for yourself how it works for a while before running it on real hardware.

 

There have been ups and downs in Arch over the years, like @adrynalyneI have also been bitten by it, but I have had many joys as well. Rolling release distributions that package software soon after it's released (rationale being something like: if upstream considers it stable, it ought to be) are bound to run into incompatibilities sooner than the rest, but in my opinion it also depends on what you actually run and how often you update.

 

For example, if you're running a base Arch install plus just a couple of things for minimal usage the probability of something going wrong should be lower compared to running a full DE with many applications (not necessarily, but that's my take on it). And the other thing, the rate at which you'd be updating the system is as important if not more so: it's far likelier to run into problems if you only update once a year for example vs. updating monthly or weekly. In fact I wouldn't recommend Arch for a machine that's going to be dormant for such a long time, I think other distros could be better suited.

 

Following on the update topic, there are times where updates require manual intervention and are announced as news in the main website, like last month:

 

Quote

libtraceevent>=5.9-1 update requires manual intervention 2020-10-23

The libtraceevent package prior to version 5.9-1 was missing a soname link. This has been fixed in 5.9-1, so the upgrade will need to overwrite the untracked files created by ldconfig. If you get any of these errors

 

libtraceevent: /usr/lib/libtraceevent.so.1 exists in filesystem

 

when updating, use

 

pacman -Syu --overwrite /usr/lib/libtraceevent.so.1

 

to perform the upgrade.

 

It's not everyday that things like that happen, and in this case it's not even for a [core] package, so it may not apply to your system; but like @Brandon Hsaid, I've found the community to be quite nice and helpful, if something arises a quick look at the forums or wiki may lead you to the solution.

 

So... summing up, while I haven't run into trouble of late, your mileage may vary and by its nature things may break (there's always the option to chroot into it from a live environment though).

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adrynalyne
7 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

2004 didn't work well for this guy who did a full analysis on the the mouse lag.

 

 

Basically what Windows was doing was making full screen games Windowed games in full screen mode instead. It makes it feel like you're floating with input lag as a result.

 

He did another video comparing 2010 to 1809 which helped a little but still had a little input lag and worse .1% lows in 3 different gaming engines. 

For this guy. I mean, that can’t possibly be isolated. 

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aphanic
27 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Gentoo is not a noun I heard in a long time. Is it still around? Everyone kept going on about FreeBSD so I decided to just buy FreeBSD with the think handbook which had the ports. I found it more stable out of the box and kept using that instead

It is, but I know nothing of its userbase, I have no idea how relevant it is nowadays or how many followers it has (there are distros based on it that also seem to be alive like Sabayon). Funtoo is more of the same except its stages are built with several systems in mind in an attempt to get a more performant end product (maybe?). For example they recently added one for Zen 2, but I have yet to experiment with either distribution.

 

A binary one is enough for me, I can't imagine the time it'd take to build everything from source.

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sinetheo
8 hours ago, aphanic said:

It is, but I know nothing of its userbase, I have no idea how relevant it is nowadays or how many followers it has (there are distros based on it that also seem to be alive like Sabayon). Funtoo is more of the same except its stages are built with several systems in mind in an attempt to get a more performant end product (maybe?). For example they recently added one for Zen 2, but I have yet to experiment with either distribution.

 

A binary one is enough for me, I can't imagine the time it'd take to build everything from source.

The reason back in 2003 when Gentoo was a big deal is you could get amazing performance boosts with custom compiler flags. Also there were flags like -use gtk you could use to make gui apps use a toolkit for your Window Manager themes. 

 

Compilers today make fat binaries that include all sorts of assembly that a runtime just links to the correct one and also CPUs are much more able to optimize code with improved branch prediction that it neglects the need. I am sure there is some niche case for a server app or scientific program but 98% of all stuff it doesn't make much of a difference with a modern compiler and CPU

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adrynalyne
15 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

The reason back in 2003 when Gentoo was a big deal is you could get amazing performance boosts with custom compiler flags. Also there were flags like -use gtk you could use to make gui apps use a toolkit for your Window Manager themes. 

 

Compilers today make fat binaries that include all sorts of assembly that a runtime just links to the correct one and also CPUs are much more able to optimize code with improved branch prediction that it neglects the need. I am sure there is some niche case for a server app or scientific program but 98% of all stuff it doesn't make much of a difference with a modern compiler and CPU

98% of the stuff didn’t make much a difference back then either which is why the fad didn’t last. 

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JustGeorge

I've been dual booting PopOs alongside Win10 on my work laptop for the last few months. Its been very stable and it seemlessly updated itself from 20.04 to 20.10. Booting is handled by UEFI. As long as Pop is set to 1st boot partition, I can press spacebar at power up and select Pop or Windows. No issues caused from Windows feature updates so far. 

 

Main gripe is although Gnome is slick n stable, I really want KDE. I could install the packages, but don't want the mess that comes along with doing that. I really wish they'd offer an official KDE spin. Made the decision to pick a distro and stick to it, so going to deal with it. 

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Mindovermaster
2 hours ago, JustGeorge said:

I've been dual booting PopOs alongside Win10 on my work laptop for the last few months. Its been very stable and it seemlessly updated itself from 20.04 to 20.10. Booting is handled by UEFI. As long as Pop is set to 1st boot partition, I can press spacebar at power up and select Pop or Windows. No issues caused from Windows feature updates so far. 

 

Main gripe is although Gnome is slick n stable, I really want KDE. I could install the packages, but don't want the mess that comes along with doing that. I really wish they'd offer an official KDE spin. Made the decision to pick a distro and stick to it, so going to deal with it. 

You can switch to KDE desktop easily. As with any DE. What mess comes after it?

It's just a new look, nothing is happening to your /home folder.

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cmcgregor80
On 27/11/2020 at 10:10, sinetheo said:

One question I have is how stable is Arch? Will an update break it with a bug? A rolling release where Arch developers admit you should bug the developers writting the program is a big turn off for me.

 

I like running older software with teams fixing bugs in userland. I love FreeBSD because it has a userland team in addition to the kernel. Linux Mint for example was the last distro I used and like the fact it's stable. I am still on Windows 10 1909 with feature updates delayed for 365 days. 2004 still can't game due to latencies in the hundreds of milliseconds with the mouse for example ??!

 

I am tempted to use Arch to learn Unix. But I don't want cinnamon to be crashing, Xorg randomly restarting and forum members telling me to RTFM and go bug Nvidia. Not our problem! I am not saying this is the experience but I want to make sure before I jump into it.

 

2004 still can't game? I play countless games on w10 2004 with 0 issues at all. Maybe you have a bad driver somewhere.

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adrynalyne
11 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

You can switch to KDE desktop easily. As with any DE. What mess comes after it?

It's just a new look, nothing is happening to your /home folder.

The mess comes on with duplicated functionality with the  apps it brings in, extra frameworks that litter the system, and general application menu pollution. It’s a great way to turn a clean system into one that isn’t. And it does drop in new clutter into the home directory for configurations and what not. 
 

It’s one thing to have multiple WMs in GNU/Linux, but I’d never want multiple DEs installed. 

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Mindovermaster
12 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

The mess comes on with duplicated functionality with the  apps it brings in, extra frameworks that litter the system, and general application menu pollution. It’s a great way to turn a clean system into one that isn’t. And it does drop in new clutter into the home directory for configurations and what not. 
 

It’s one thing to have multiple WMs in GNU/Linux, but I’d never want multiple DEs installed. 

I was never taught that... I thought each WE had their own subfolder in /home, and keep it's programs and configurations apart from each other. Huh...

 

Good to know I guess. I never use multiple DE's other than Openbox anyway...

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adrynalyne
11 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

I was never taught that... I thought each WE had their own subfolder in /home, and keep it's programs and configurations apart from each other. Huh...

 

Good to know I guess. I never use multiple DE's other than Openbox anyway...

OpenBox is a WM, not DE. 🙂

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Mindovermaster
9 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

OpenBox is a WM, not DE. 🙂

I get those two confused... 🤪

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fusi0n

Have y'all messed with Tilix? I started messing around with it and now wondering why/how I haven't used it since,

image.thumb.png.3a1e34fc827ca487ee024ae721bc7c51.png

27 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

OpenBox is a WM, not DE. 🙂

 

18 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

I get those two confused... 🤪

 

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adrynalyne
30 minutes ago, fusi0n said:

Have y'all messed with Tilix? I started messing around with it and now wondering why/how I haven't used it since,

image.thumb.png.3a1e34fc827ca487ee024ae721bc7c51.png

 

 

Nah I’ve never been able to get into tiling managers. I just don’t do enough cli only work to make it my entire interface. One terminal open is fine for me. 🙃

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JustGeorge
3 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

The mess comes on with duplicated functionality with the  apps it brings in, extra frameworks that litter the system, and general application menu pollution. It’s a great way to turn a clean system into one that isn’t. And it does drop in new clutter into the home directory for configurations and what not. 
 

It’s one thing to have multiple WMs in GNU/Linux, but I’d never want multiple DEs installed. 

Thanks for summing that up for me :)

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sinetheo
On 28/11/2020 at 09:18, cmcgregor80 said:

2004 still can't game? I play countless games on w10 2004 with 0 issues at all. Maybe you have a bad driver somewhere.

Go check out the link I have above. It is unplayable with the horrible mouse lag. It was fixed in 2010. In the link the guy had some software to show the many hundreds of millisecond delays when he clicked on his mouse and the response. WDDM is broken in 2004 as everything is all windowed full screen instead of full screen. 

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