Worried about undershooting my PSU for future upgrades, but overshooting would be costly right now.


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Cyber Akuma

My old 3770K system died and I am re-building it as a 10700K system.

 

As I can't afford to do an entirely new build, I am going to be re-using most of the parts from said 3770K (In fact, the only reason I am not going with my original plans of a 9700K is because I managed to get both the CPU and RAM quite a bit cheaper open-box at MicroCenter). The case, the drives (yes I know, there are a lot of them), the additional cards I had in it, the fans, the GPU, and just about everything else will be re-used. (Was going to re-use the PSU too, until a PSU tester said that while all it's voltages are good, the PG response is out of spec, I also realized it's a year out of warranty when I originally thought I had 2 years left).

 

Basically I am going to be ending up with this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Cyber_Akuma/saved/8qmPFT

 

But with the CPU replaced with a 10700K, 2x32 DDR4 RAM, and the motherboard with a z490 board, these parts replacing the older ones essentially:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Cyber_Akuma/saved/yWGfyc

 

The point of contention is the PSU. A LOT of them are sold out and/or overpriced right now due to shortages. I had a 750 watt PSU in that case. And while a 750 watt should be more than enough for a 10700K/GTX1070.... even with all the fans and several mechanical and SSD drives I have in it, since that system is likely going to last me at LEAST as long as the 3770K did if not longer, it's going to need upgrades down the line, namely the GPU.

 

When I tried using PSU calculators, they estimated that I would need around 625 or so watts for my current setup, not bad, well under 750 watts. But, when I calculated in upgrading to an RTX card such as a 3000 series (or possibly later models, it will be a while until I can upgrade the GPU), it estimated I could use up to 725 watts. That's cutting it dangerously close to a 750. Now, I know that some PSU calculators can overshoot (as well as others I have run into that well-undershoot) but I tried Googling it and was getting conflicting answers on if 750 or 850 would be enough, many forums posts that 750 is fine while others recommended 850.

 

Normally in this situation I would just go 850 since the extra cost is not that big..... NORMALLY ..... but a lot of PSUs are sold out right now. And even the ones that are not sold out are priced higher than normal due to said sellouts and shortages. (The one I want is apparently supposed to be $160 for example, but it's going for $200 on Amazon (plus won't even be in stock for about two weeks) and for far more on Newegg). So in this case I could be paying far more than the normal higher cost from a 750 to a 850 right now if a 850 is overkill even for what would be 8-10 years of upgrades from now, but I also really don't want to undershoot it and cause problems as well as the headache of having to replace the PSU early if 750 could end up being too low.

 

The contention on if I should get Gold or Platinum is also an issue since I keep my system running 24/7 (most of the time not at a high load) and while the winters are cold it can get fairly hot in the summer here. Titanium is going to be out of my pricerange for any good PSU at these wattages.

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Jason S.

why not just build what you can today and save up specifically for a new PSU in the future?

 

What does nvidia say, explicitly, you should use for their new RTX series?

 

maybe i'm not getting it, but i just found a Seasonic 850W on Newegg for $90.

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Jim K

So...you have a older Seasonic 750 80+ Gold. It still works fine?  Only hint of an issue is your tester showing the Power Good is "out of spec" ... does it give you a number in ms?  Maybe it has always been "out of spec" but within spec for Seasonic? 

 

Do you suspect the PSU as the cause of your computers death?

 

I would say keep it for now...worry about it later.  Though you have a bunch of spinners...you probably could run a 3080 w/o issue...but you're not getting a new GPU yet....so don't worry about it. :)

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+Biscuits Brown

I'd seriously guess that system when playing AAA games will never top 400-425 watts.  Upgrading to an RTX 3000 series card will add 100-150 to that if you are killing it at 4k with rt turned on.  You may want to invest the 40 bucks to get a KillAWatt to see how much your system REALLY uses moving forward. As for Gold/Platinum etc., that only designates the PSU efficiency (and even that is a very rigged grading system) not the quality of the PSU.  

 

 So a quality 750 will do it but an 850 is usually price comparative so it boils down to supply and your budget.  

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Cyber Akuma
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

why not just build what you can today and save up specifically for a new PSU in the future?

 

What does nvidia say, explicitly, you should use for their new RTX series?

 

maybe i'm not getting it, but i just found a Seasonic 850W on Newegg for $90.

Replacing the PSU, especially when you have over half a dozen drives in the system of different types, is a massive pain. Plus that costs me more in the long run to re-buy a higher end PSU later. I would rather rather get a PSU that is very likely to last me several years from the start.

 

And that PSU is of considerably lower quality than the one I mentioned, I would be skeptical how well that would handle higher loads.

 

15 minutes ago, Jim K said:

So...you have a older Seasonic 750 80+ Gold. It still works fine?  Only hint of an issue is your tester showing the Power Good is "out of spec" ... does it give you a number in ms?  Maybe it has always been "out of spec" but within spec for Seasonic? 

 

Do you suspect the PSU as a reason your current system died?

 

I would say keep it for now...worry about it later.  Though you have a bunch of spinners...you probably could run a 3080 w/o issue...but you're not getting a new GPU yet....so don't worry about it right. :)

Sadly, my tester just says "F if it's outside of the 100-500ms spec, it only displays the signal if it's within spec, And I don't know if it's working fine because I am having a LOT of issues with the system, and until I replace the PSU I can't be sure if it's the PSU, the motherboard, or both. Before everything was pointing to the motherboard, but now my tester says my PSU could (possibly also) be the culprit.

 

I suspected the PSU at first because it as completely giving me no response whatsoever other than some fans turning on. But after I stripped it down to essentials I could (about 70% of the time) get it to POST but there were a LOT of oddball problems that felt far more like motherboard problems than PSU problems. I was convinced it was the motherboard (especially since I stress-tested the PSU with 36 hours of ptime95 with 2 hours of furmark in the middle of that) until that PG problem with the tester.

 

I wouldn't trust that PSU at the moment. It's lacking an additional 4-pin CPU connector that the motherboard I was going to replace it with needs anyway.

 

  

5 minutes ago, Biscuits Brown said:

I'd seriously guess that system when playing AAA games will never top 400-425 watts.  Upgrading to an RTX 3000 series card will add 100-150 to that if you are killing it at 4k with rt turned on.  You may want to invest the 40 bucks to get a KillAWatt to see how much your system REALLY uses moving forward. As for Gold/Platinum etc., that only designates the PSU efficiency (and even that is a very rigged grading system) not the quality of the PSU.  

 

 So a quality 750 will do it but an 850 is usually price comparative so it boils down to supply and your budget.  

I don't have a kill-a-watt but I did have that system plugged into a UPS that can measure current. When I attempted to stress test it I think it was in the mid-500s, but that was before I upgraded the GPU to a 1070. I think I might have gone mid-500 to almost 600 at highest. Granted, the UPS also has my monitor, speakers, modem, router, and other devices connected to it.... but it generally idles at about 250-300 when I am not doing anything much on my PC.

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Jason S.

i've been out of the PSU business for years, but Seasonic is supposed to be a very reputable brand. what makes you say it's "lower quality" than the one you linked?

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Cyber Akuma
9 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

i've been out of the PSU business for years, but Seasonic is supposed to be a very reputable brand. what makes you say it's "lower quality" than the one you linked?

It's rated Bronze (the one I want is rated Platinum), it's from Seasonic's more budget lines, the fact that it's less than half the price of the one I was looking at, and it has a warranty of just 5 years (even my old one that I suspect has failed had a warranty of 7 years back in 2012) while the one I want now has a warranty of 12 years when all others even from other brands max out at 10.

 

Yes, Seasonic is one of the best brands, they are my go-to for PSUs, but many brands have both quality and lower-end budget models.

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Jim K

I think you've answered your question ... now you just have to budget for it.

 

Just sucks right now...seems like everything I would recommend are out of stock.  For example the Seasonic Focus line (fairly low price but gets very good reviews).

 

B&H does have a Seasonic Focus Platinum 750w for $145 in stock.

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Jason S.

Seasonic's Platinum PSUs are 4-5x more expensive than that budget one i linked. If it's worth it to you, i still suggest you just save up over the next year or whatever and then buy it. It seems that you cant justify the cost right now

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Cyber Akuma
5 minutes ago, Jim K said:

I think you've answered your question ... now you just have to budget for it.

 

Just sucks right now...seems like everything I would recommend are out of stock.  For example the Seasonic Focus line (fairly low price but gets very good reviews).

 

B&H does have a Seasonic Focus Platinum 750w for $145 in stock.

 

5 minutes ago, Jason S. said:

Seasonic's Platinum PSUs are 4-5x more expensive than that budget one i linked. If it's worth it to you, i still suggest you just save up over the next year or whatever and then buy it. It seems that you cant justify the cost right now

Yeah, that's the biggest problem really otherwise I would have no qualms about getting the PSU I was looking at. Almost everything is sold out and prices are being raised for stuff that is not sold out yet. It was really REALLY bad timing for my system to die in early December. If it happened a few months earlier or two months from now it would likely not have been as bad. But I was hoping to get this system running again by December, at this rate it will be late January if not early February. I definitely can't wait until next year since it's a repair of my main desktop (currently on a backup workstation I got cheap). If this was just simply a new build I would have waited at least a year if not more.

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goretsky

Hello,

 

Have you looked into a power supply with an 80 PLUS GOLD rating and a seven-to-ten year warranty?  I was looking at power supplies last month, and saw a few vendors that met those specs.  I'm unsure if going with a platinum or titanium rated PSU is worth the extra cost; it might be better to put some of that PSU budget into line conditioning or UPS equipment.  Current build located here to give you an idea of what sort of PSU I chose for my primary desktop.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

 

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Cyber Akuma

Well yeah, 80 Gold is the minimum I am going for, and I didn't want to get a PSU that didn't have at lest a 10 year warranty (The one I was talking about has a 12 year warranty).

 

And yeah, as mentioned I do have a UPS too, a pure sine wave model that handles up to 1000 watts: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W , I recently replaced it's worn batteries as well.

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goretsky

Hello,

 

I have the same model UPS myself.

 

Don't forget to use a good quality power cable when connecting the PC's PSU to it, though.  While the one's that come with the PSU are probably adequate, I did come across this one at my local hi-fi dealer. 

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Cyber Akuma

Thanks for the tip, though I was able to just barely get the PRIME PX-850 from Amazon when they were in stock at a normal price for a short time a few days ago. 

 

That did help me know that the FOCUS GX-750 is also in stock for $130 though, which would be useful for a secondary project after I finish with this main PC, thanks.

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  • 3 weeks later...
ThaCrip
On 05/01/2021 at 08:52, Jason S. said:

Seasonic is supposed to be a very reputable brand

 

Yeah, my opinion of Seasonic is top notch so far as it's easily the longest lasting PSU I have ever owned (I have been using computers since 1995) and at the time I got mine, Seasonic was supposed to be one of the more reliable PSU brands in general.

 

my current 520 watt Seasonic PSU had been in use, pretty much 24/7, since Nov 2012. it had a 5 year warranty (which ended Nov 2017) and is hands down my longest lasting PSU to date as in the past my PSU's would typically fail within a year or so after warranty end, of which those PSU's never had more than a 3 year warranty. so even factoring in end of warranty time as the start point, my current PSU is still #1 as it's 3 years and 3 months past the end of the warranty (and is still going) where as my PSU's in the past would, off the top of my head, make it 1 year or so (maybe 1.5 years tops) after end of warranty before dying.

 

so while I am just one person, my advice is don't buy a PSU with less than a 5 year warranty (while I have not looked at PSU warranties in a while I would imagine nowadays 5+ years is fairly common(?)). but if you get one with at least that much of a warranty I won't be surprised if it lasts for quite a while as my current main PC's PSU (Seasonic 520 watt) is 8 years and 3 months old now (it's powering i5-3550 CPU/1050 Ti 4GB GPU and has powered 3-4 hard drives etc). NOTE: even if my current 520 watt Seasonic PSU dies, I got a hold of a 430 watt Seasonic on Ebay for dirt cheap back in I think it was Jan 2019 at I think it was $22 or so which was probably worth closer to $40 at the time as shortly after I got mine, the person on Ebay selling them raised the price to $40. I mainly got it at the time (because it was a good PSU and cheap enough) to revive a old motherboard (which was my previous main PC's motherboard from 2006) I had laying around for a backup computer as I figured even if that old computers board died (it has swollen caps etc but so far seems stable), it will still be a good backup PSU for my main PC should my 8 year old+ PSU ever die since I don't plan on upgrading my current i5-3550/1050 Ti 4GB setup for years to come as it's still fast enough for what I do.

 

so unless one is running power hog components I can't see people needing those really high watt PSU's as, off the top of my head, I would imagine anything around a 700-800 watt PSU TOPS would be more than enough for most people and they can probably get by with less, especially if your not running a power hog GPU. like just running a decent CPU/GPU and a few hard drives or thereabouts my 520 watt PSU is totally okay and I can probably even get by with even a lower wattage PSU although I would try to stay in the 500+ watt range for good measure as I suspect it's probably best to leave a little headroom so it's not taxing the PSU too much.

 

p.s. I have a similar CPU to the OP's... i5-3550 which I just got used for $20 last year as a solid upgrade to what I was using since May 2012 which was a i3-2120. I am just using the heatsink/fan combo from the i3-2120 which lacks the copper contact that the proper i5 heatsink has but I helped compensate for the additional heat by undervolting the CPU by -0.130v which is the most I can lower it and keep a stable system which shaved off about 13c on peak CPU temps.

Edited by ThaCrip
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