Fred Derf Veteran Posted April 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted April 27, 2004 like what was before our universe (im not religious at all) does it go on FOREVER... hurst to think about The hurting doesn't stop. Penn State physicist Lee Smolin, for instance, has conjectured that our universe arose from a black hole in a previous universe, and that each black hole in our universe (and other universes) gives rise to yet another universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 I heard of that blackhole thing in relation to multiverses. Means like an (everexisting?) foam where each bubble represents an universe whose blackholes lead/create (to other) bubbles. The parameters of the different universes vary, and we just happen to be one with parameters that allowed us to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServaCom Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 A fact is something that can be proven that it exists. Was the Earth not spherical before mankind proved it to be so, or was it simply not a known fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted April 27, 2004 Veteran Share Posted April 27, 2004 Was the Earth not spherical before mankind proved it to be so, or was it simply not a known fact? Owned. In reference to multiple universes, this is a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse However, we all know that the loner guy on Voyager was about to destroy Schlezholt's theory of multiple big bangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Got me. Still, ZAnswhatever claimed the existance of a holy assclown in the sky a fact by just "knowing" it. That's not enough. I can get the idea why people thought the earth was flat, because if you look around you, it looks like it. However noone managed to observe anything that could be a god, or from a god. Unless you're representing the "god's creation" point of view, but then you're locking yourself into a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimaCJ Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 All I can say is. We honestly don't know til we die and talk to the big man upstairs himself or unless your those OTHER types people, the other man downstairs :angry: :( I say live life one day at time and don't confuse yourself. Speaking which Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceman255 Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 They had a good nova (tv show :) ) on the string theory. it was quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufioPan Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 They had a good nova (tv show :) ) on the string theory. it was quite interesting. Ya, that's the "Elegant Universe" mini-series... way cool... I bought it on DVD :) @ TomServo: Still, ZAnswhatever claimed the existance of a holy assclown in the sky a fact by just "knowing" it. That's not enough. You might want to be a little more respectful when referring to the the God(s) or Prophet(s) of other people, regardless of what your own personal belief is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boffa Jones Veteran Posted April 28, 2004 Veteran Share Posted April 28, 2004 I beleive in science as well. Sure there was a big bang, but as far as im concerned god was the mastermind behind it. So i have no problems beleiving it happened. I just wish they would hurry up and figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcrad Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 precision and certainty are two opposite things, you can never have them both at their best. cant explain the unexplainable, might as well leave it before peoples feelings get hurt ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimaCJ Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Do you think a being made God himself? Makes you think Though I'm not sure. It just a curious question. UltimaCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 to the above post ^, errm no. to the topic: you can talk about physics all you want, but you will never be able to PROVE that God does not exist. Things do not and CANNOT make themelves, they need a creator. you could talk about endless galaxies and universes, but who made those? God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOC Veteran Posted April 28, 2004 Veteran Share Posted April 28, 2004 What about a certain quantum theory (actually I forget the name of the damn theory now, it's 5 am lol) that states: Every single decision we make in our lives, and every single possible outcome of those decisions exist in infinite parallel Universes. Just imagine it. In one Universe, George Bush is working at McDonald's. In another he's hoped up on smack right now. In another, science has proven that god does not exist. In another religion has proven god does exist. And yet in another, there is no humanity. No Earth. No Milky Way. No Universe. One where Taco Bell is the supreme ruler of the world. One where Hitler and Japan won WW2. I could go on and on. Just something to think about at 5 am here. This was the basis of one of my all time favorite episodes of ST:TNG, Parallels. It's a great episode if you catch it on Spike TV or wherever you are. And just for clarification, there are particles that exist in this Universe (again at 5 am I don't remember which) that magically are made out of nothing, and then vanish into nothingness again. So there are things which can be made out of nothing, and the Universe may be one of them. We sure as hell will never know, unless we use the Event Horizon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Player Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Take a class in quanum mechanics...I did and I've never been the same since :p I'd recomend that everyone google Schrodinger's Cat and read the story behind it...thats a fun one...and if you want to see something wierd look up how light behaves like a partical when its observed and a wave when it isnt...or maybe its the other way around...cant remember :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 What about a certain quantum theory (actually I forget the name of the damn theory now, it's 5 am lol) that states:Every single decision we make in our lives, and every single possible outcome of those decisions exist in infinite parallel Universes. Just imagine it. In one Universe, George Bush is working at McDonald's. In another he's hoped up on smack right now. In another, science has proven that god does not exist. In another religion has proven god does exist. And yet in another, there is no humanity. No Earth. No Milky Way. No Universe. One where Taco Bell is the supreme ruler of the world. One where Hitler and Japan won WW2. I could go on and on. Just something to think about at 5 am here. This was the basis of one of my all time favorite episodes of ST:TNG, Parallels. It's a great episode if you catch it on Spike TV or wherever you are. And just for clarification, there are particles that exist in this Universe (again at 5 am I don't remember which) that magically are made out of nothing, and then vanish into nothingness again. So there are things which can be made out of nothing, and the Universe may be one of them. We sure as hell will never know, unless we use the Event Horizon! to LOC and Gary_Player, there is no quantum theory that says that something can be made from nothing. it is impossible. so how were the galaxies made then? they couldnt have if you think that there was no God involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Things do not and CANNOT make themelves, they need a creator. Why. you could talk about endless galaxies and universes, but who made those? God. Why. You should get an update into quantum physics, then you might realize that particles poofs out of nothing all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C:Amie Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 6 days to create the universe?ok, so.. what is a day? 1 full rotation of 360? on earth's north-south pole axis. so that means earth had to exist before the universe (and even the earth) to even define 1 day of time. :ninja:: Perhaps if god can be in all places at all time, it'd make sense that he's travelling post light speed. There for as we all know thanks to Einstein, time is relative. Perhaps it was a period of 6 days from the perspective of God, where as it was an eternity to 'static' points in the universe.like what was before our universe (im not religious at all) does it go on FOREVER... hurst to think about I thought that recent thinking made the idea that the universe is more like an expanding balloon (Crude example). With the surface of the balloon being our 3 dimensional reality. If you walked around the balloon in a perfectly straight line, you'd get back to where you started... eventually. Things do not and CANNOT make themselves, they need a creator. you could talk about endless galaxies and universes, but who made those? God. Things do not and CANNOT make themselves... so who made God? At the end of it all. The way I see it is that Science is an anthropological understanding. Everything has to be explained scientifically to suit our being here. Not matter how infinitely improbably something is the fact remains that from a scientific perspective the science is only there because the conditions were right to make it possible for us a (supposedly) higher order intelligence to flourish enough to record it. I may not have explained that too well... Now while science is fatally flawed as there inevitably come a cut off point as to where science can look. There is no evidence of what existed before the 'big bang' as there is no information from before it to record. If there was it's certainly been drowned out buy post 'big bang' events. However on the flip side of the coin, and in my opinion. Religion is an attempt to find an anthropological comfort zone. It takes the randomness out of science explanation and provides it's own cut off point at which people are afraid to ask the question. "Ok, so everything we see ordered here is the miracle of God and his will. So where did god come from?" It just adds another cut off point that is beyond the human understanding. So to end on a clich?, at the end of the day both systems - which ever is right or wrong - are both striving for an understanding of events within boundary. My personal view is not to deprive myself of asking the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatsniffer Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 The fact proven by scientists is that something cannot be forumed by something. According to them, the universe is billions of years old, hence there should probably be another occurance of something from nothing. So no matter how much human would like to think that they are alone and have no one to anwser to for their actions, there has to be a higher being that put the something into nothing. That doesn't disprove the big bang theory though. Because there are no exceptions to cause and effect, we should just be asking ourselves who created the condions for the explotion of our galaxy? If there wasn't someone to caused the big bang, then shouldn't you be worrying that a galaxy is going to explode from within your house? I mean, there is nothing there that could do this, so according to the godelss theory, that's the perfect condition. Ignorance of God causes these stupid questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatsniffer Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 A day is only 360degrees around the sun for us. That's if you are going by time. What about this "Back in my day". A day can be an undetermined period of time. Remember God created the universe so he didn't have an solar orbit before he started creation. So whatever he based his days on determined how long they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C:Amie Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 :blink: I'm not sure if that was countering what I said. However, as for something from nothing, as Tom Servo said. You'd best swat up on Quantum mechanics and particle theory. Remember God created the universe so he didn't have an solar orbit before he started creation. So whatever he based his days on determined how long they were. Quite right on that score. moving along... I had a scan through the rest of this thread, noticed a couple of references to the Big Crunch. I thought that they'd disproved this idea as the mass / gravitation attraction of the universe (assuming the existance of dark matter and other unknown quanta) didn't meet the conditions for an implosion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.thornton Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 According to the laws of entropy, the universe is constantly running down into a state of equilibrium. Therefore it states that there is a theoretical end to the universe, and in order for anything to have an an end, it must have a beginning. To that effect, something had to 'put' the universe there, as it could not have existed beforehand. There are not enough stars in the universe to actually account for the Big Bang Theory, as far as the research I've done. It is 'possible', but the probability is so minute that it is a mathematical impossibility on such an infintisimal scale that believing it would require pure and unbridled rejection of any of the empirical evidence in a creator. The mere concept that the functions of the world could be an accident are more than ludicrous. An evolutionary world would have favored asexual reproduction, would have not developed multiple cultures, and would have very, very strongly developed in a more isolated, favorable climate. Everything about the perpetual struggle of mankind shows the evidence of a creator. So then, to sum up and attempt to speculate an answer to the question. I believe our universe was a concept before it became a thought, and from there it became a consistent stream of energy, shaped specifically to a will that ,for whatever reason that we 'CANNOT' comprehend, had the ability to do so. I don't think anyone can really 'figure out' how the universe came about, I don't think knowing would help us any, either.Even if we had proof that there was, or was not a God, people would still believe what they wanted. I'm not attempting to bash anyone's theories, this is just my belief. Your entitled to your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 There are not enough stars in the universe to actually account for the Big Bang Theory, as far as the research I've done. Uhm, the amount of stars (actually the amount of matter) doesn't matter for the big bang, but for the future of the universe, to know whether it will implode again, be flat or expand for ever. And if you'd have made research, you'd know that all galaxies move away from each other, which means it's expanding from a compacter state (fold down the 3D space into 2D, and imagine that 2D surface being a balloon being inflated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted April 28, 2004 Veteran Share Posted April 28, 2004 Uhm, the amount of stars (actually the amount of matter) doesn't matter for the big bang Since when does matter not matter? It matters to me. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimaCJ Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 to the above post ^, errm no.to the topic: you can talk about physics all you want, but you will never be able to PROVE that God does not exist. Things do not and CANNOT make themelves, they need a creator. you could talk about endless galaxies and universes, but who made those? God. So, it remains a mystery or not if God was the first being. Or another entity created him. In the end, too many questions but there are no answers to validate them I'm not giving any doubts that God didn't create the universe the world etc etc. Just makes you ponder "What If........." As far as I know God created the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimaCJ Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Things don't create themselves? What about Amobias? They can spilt into 2 and so forth and create themselves :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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