Mac OS X 10.4 Details


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thats because internet explorer is the core internet connection for windows, you can disable it and make it invisible to you, but it still needs to be there for things like windows update to work. i dont see a reason why MS should make a version of WU for firefox.

wrong. back in the days when microsoft was in court, one of the guys who had to go to the stand had to prove that internet explorer could be removed. and he did it. guess what microsoft did? released a patch the next day that made it impossible to remove internet explorer from windows.

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Will you all just shut the **** up god you lot can go on and on about ****ing nothing

This thread is about Mac Os X 10.4 not what's cheaper Windows XP Home or Windows XP Pro. Not why don't apple make free applications for linux! why cant you people stay on track! (I so know I'm gonna get flamed for this ) :yes:

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Will you all just shut the **** up god you lot can go on and on about ****ing nothing

This thread is about Mac Os X 10.4 not what's cheaper Windows XP Home or Windows XP Pro. Not why don't apple make free applications for linux! why cant you people stay on track! (I so know I'm gonna get flamed for this ) :yes:

no you won't... cus you're just pretending to be stupid :p

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Ya just trying to get on my good side?:blush::

well, if you wanted to get flamed, you would of said how linux or windows is better lol

@KeR:

i have a job. but that doesn't necessary mean i have to tell ya what i do;))

but gees, will we please stay on the topic

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Diversity? What do we have for diversity then?

- Support dual processors

- Join a AD-network

- Serve a web-page with a fully integrated and proven web server

- Disable simple file sharing (maybe you can turn this off with a registry hack in home?)

- Serve two concurrent interactive users via remote-desktop.

Did I miss any?

Call me crazy but that's hardly diverse. OS X server vs OS X client are operating systems that cater to different customers. Windows 2003 Server vs XP is serves different needs. Microsoft Works vs Microsoft Office give choices to customers My understanding is that there are warez copies of all major versions of Windows XP (from home to media center) all on one disk - the CDs are identical except for the install script and a few registry settings.

You know why, because Apple didn't develop OSX they "hacked" it from FreeBSD.

It's more a mix of net, open, and free bsds - but all BSD variations have a fairly standard code base.

Of course I mean 3rd party apps, for example free DiVX. Some people actually don't need those processes running on their computers and in that sense it's a much better solution.

OS X makes it damn simple to uninstall the applications you don't need: put it in the trash.

But they're there if you need them.

I will agree with you on that one, though it is obvious there's a much wider choice of apps for XP than for OSX, and we both know why.

I stand by my original assertion that for applications that matter there are (on average) there is a fair selection of comparable applications for both platforms favoring one or the other depending on task.

Add Remove Programs>Add Remove Windows Components ...simple as that. The thing is that IE is much harder to remove because it's integrated in the core of the OS simply to give you more advanced options under XP.

Then maybe you can help me. My little brother has a PC running the copy of XP Pro I received as part of my schools site license program. I went Start - Settings - Control Panel - Add remove programs - Windows Components - Outlook express. Unchecked it's box and the system said it was uninstalled.

Double clicking the OE icon he placed in the start menu still launched the damn program (see screenshot). I'm no computer expert, but my understanding of applications is that when you uninstall them they don't work any more.

Can you launch an internet page directly through your folder window or have something that's called active desktop?

Is it a good the program you use to browse the internet be the same application you use to delete files? That's debatable - but to answer your question, I can open an internet shortcut icon and have my browser of choice open it. if you mean by typing a URL into some textfield (as I'm sure you do): then no.

I could bash out an active desktop clone using applescript if I wanted that functionality. I'd guestimate it would take 20mins, but without actually trying I can't say for sure one way or the other.

Needless to say the integration and separation of the web and file browser is a conscious interface decision made by the engineers on both platforms - I'm not going to argue interface choices in this thread. There is no technical reason why Microsoft couldn't seperate IE from Explorer, nor that apple couldn't blend Safari and Finder into one program.

It's interesting how you right away dismiss my opinion as wrong. What makes it wrong? How many serious programmers you know that are developing on OSX? There's a reason for that.

He left no facts to dispute: what do you propose I do, make his argument for him then dispute that?

these guys look pretty serious to me.

There are so many technologies under the hood of XP Pro as well as IDE tools for developers that it's simply not comparable.

Can you point me to a major developer that has recently said "We want to write this application for OS X but there is OS provides absolutely no way of doing it?"

No argument that xCode < VS.Net, but that doesn't seem to get in the way of Microsoft.

FreeBSD is the essence of OSX and it will always be inferior.

IBM will always be the dominant computer company.

Netscape will always be the browser to beat.

Surely they'll fix that two digit date bug in a few years.

Apple will be out of business by 1986.

Everything that can be invented has been invented.

If there's one thing history has taught us, it's that absolutes are not.

First of all nobody actually tried to build XP based Dual Xeon or Dual Opteron clusters as super computer before.

Maybe there's a good reason - oh right: Microsoft doesn't have a product capable of working in such an environment yet (see todays announcement for evidence that they plan to correct this somewhere down the line). The spots behind Apple goes to a $10-25m clusters of xeons and opertons.

I guess they were either under influence of marketing when the G5 came out or somebody's personal preference.

Read the university's site about it: G5 systems were faster and cheaper than systems using Intel, AMD, and Sun processors.

At the end of the day, it cost $5m to place #3 on the top 500 list of super computers. They did it with off the shelf apple software that has been shipping on every modern mac for over a year (they're running Jaguar IIRC).

I guarantee that if you paired the same configuration with Opterons the results would be the same if not even better.

#6 = 2,800 opterons, #3 = 2,200 G5s both 2.0ghz. The opertons are also 20% slower than the G5 cluster.

But why are you talking about hardware when this was a software discussion?

You could do us all a favor by pulling us back (somewhat) on topic by showing us any top500 cluster running Windows.

unlike Apple, MS is building their OS completely from scratch

Unlike Microsoft, Apple's new/re-written operating system is running on the computers of many members of this forum.

t's their own code, not borrowed.

I'm all for borrowing code thats proven itself reliable for 30+ years.

which is another Cascade/Tile windows feature with some makeup)

no it isn't - perhaps you could do some reading around this forum, because the difference has been discussed many times.

and Alt-Tab feature that existed in Windows 3.11.
It was also in classic mac os.
In essence Apple steals as much as MS

Apple licensed the Xerox technology. They're also entitled to use the BSD code in OS X, Apache, and SMB code in OS X, and steve jobs personally led the development of Cocoa, quartz, etc. They even have licenses to the fonts they ship in their OS.

There is no stealing to be seen here.

Btw, we are talking here about underlying functionality of Windows/OSX not some stupid eye candy engine that makes shadows and bubbly buttons draw faster.

Quartz is a core component - apple's ADC documentation provides a pretty good run down of what it does, maybe you could read up.

If you really wanna see a true operating system look at new Longhorn and Aero/Avalon/WinFS, the first true 3D operating system.

I will - when it ships in 2 or 3 or 4 years. In the mean time I'll just have to marvel at the hardware accelerated desktop compositing engine that's been on the iMac in my garage for the better part of 2 years now.

I'm sorry but OSX is not a 3D OS...eah, I know you might say, hey but that's coming out in late 2005/early 2006, but as I said MS builds their own OS from scratch, not doing makeup on someone elses code.

Are you apologizing for Microsoft's inability to ship even a minor os upgrade in 4 years and counting, or something else. I don't think anybody said OS X is 3D until you showed up so you can't be talking about that can you?

First of all as far as I know (and I might be wrong) you can install only one copy of OSX on your machine, under legal clause.

You are: 5 seats: $199

I didn't think so..So every time you buy a Mac you are paying $130 for the OS which is included in the price, that's why you only pay $199, because they already ripped you off.

People have already talked about the microsoft EULA so I'll let that slide, maybe you could clear up what you were saying here though.

I buy a powermac, ibook, and imac, they each ship with an OS - lets say 10.1.5

Two years later I want to buy 10.3 so I put down my $199 and install it on all 3 machines.

How exactly was I ripped off?

Whoever needed some crucial updates on their machines (read there were some bugs starting from Jaguar) you had to update to get those issues solved. As far I know you didn't have "Windows Update" feature that will give you all updates for free all the time. So in the end if you wanted to keep your system up-to-date you had to pay up.

Security and bug fix updates are back-ported to 10.2. If you want new features in OS X then you pay for them.

And there is a "windows update" feature - it's called software update, is set to run once a week by default, and you can still use it - even if you decide to uninstall Internet Explorer and Safari.

I'm done arguing the Windows vs OS X line for a while - I'd rather talk about Mac OS.

EDIT: This is uninstalled?

(on a totally unrelated note: my appologies for the fake mac skin: my younger brothers well, young, dumb, and still in highschool: he doesn't know any better)

Edited by the evn show
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I went to sleep, got back and the thread got totally out of hand :p

Windows XP (wether it is Home or Pro) is a good OS, Mac OSX is a good OS. Some like one better then the other.... fine. I'm a Windows persion, the evn show is a Mac person. Great let us enjoy what we use. I am used to the software I use daily, so a switch would be hard (not impossible), plus I see no reason for switching to a Mac. I don't think it is gonna offer me much more then a bit of extra eyecandy, which is something I don't care much about (now... I don't want to hear what I am missing out, so don't even bother summing it up. I DON'T CARE!!!). Windows works for me.... period.

Same goes for people on Macs, they don't see the need for switching to Windows..... because they are used to the way they work now.

Grab your weapon of choice and let other people do the same...

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Fine. I'm a Windows persion, the evn show is a Mac person.

Great let us enjoy what we use.

If you want to get technical: I'm a *NIX guy with a strong Windows development and administration background and a thing for award winning industrial design.

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I went to sleep, got back and the thread got totally out of hand :p

Windows XP (wether it is Home or Pro) is a good OS, Mac OSX is a good OS. Some like one better then the other.... fine. I'm a Windows persion, the evn show is a Mac person. Great let us enjoy what we use. I am used to the software I use daily, so a switch would be hard (not impossible), plus I see no reason for switching to a Mac. I don't think it is gonna offer me much more then a bit of extra eyecandy, which is something I don't care much about (now... I don't want to hear what I am missing out, so don't even bother summing it up. I DON'T CARE!!!). Windows works for me.... period.

Same goes for people on Macs, they don't see the need for switching to Windows..... because they are used to the way they work now.

Grab your weapon of choice and let other people do the same...

Thats great, why are so many of 'you' preaching about XP and Longhorn in a Mac Forum about Mac OS X tiger? :huh:

Not just you in specific...

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What happened to my post?

When did a discussion on the new features in Apples next version of OS X involve Windows XP, Longhorn or any other operating system?

If you guys want to talk about which is better than create or find your own post and talk about it there, otherwise it almost irrelevant to this post. Its all BS anyway, use whatever your happiest with and let other use what they want.

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I still don't get it... why windows user need to post in a 'what's will be in the next mac os x release' about WinnXp, Longhorn etc?!!?

I haven't seen any post on the Longhorn threads from Mac users telling how much Os X is good and how much windows sucks.... why people can't stay on topic ?!? :angry:

Anyway, i'm glad that Env is on this board, every post from him I read enlight my knowledge.... :)

Now, to back on topic... I think those previewed features alone won't justify the price of a new full version of OS X... I think there will be more updates... or maybe this release is just a step towards 10.5, that will come out short before Longhorn.... I think it will be a good strategy from Apple. Besides we've just had in October a major release... and it's only June when WWDC will be.... isn't a ltttle too early for a new OS ?

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New versions of OS X typically new new versions of developer tools. xCode has a few interface quirks that can be a bit of a hassle so I'd like to see those fixed.

For me anyway, xCode is worth $50/year - even if it is free from ADC. As a result apple typically only needs to come up with $18 usd worth of new features to get my money (student discount) for one copy.

A cocoa re-implementation of the OS 9 finder would be all I need from OS X 10.4 to be happy with it for another year or two, but they've had everyone's favorite BeOS filesystem developer on staff for some time now - at the risk of sounding like a rumors site, a new beefier, faster, and more capable filesystem is way overdue (IMO the way OS 9 used HFS is superior to OS X and HFS+).

Death to filename extentions! Have the OS generate them when the file is copied onto an CD-ROM, DVD, FAT, or NTFS network share - otherwise I'd like to be back using metadata please.

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