+Anarkii Subscriber² Posted March 24, 2002 Subscriber² Share Posted March 24, 2002 Neobond - Ive been coming to your site on a daily basis since this site was first made back in 2000 and I just love the content, and the profressionalism that it is run - so firstly to you and Redmack, GREAT JOB! :) 2ndly, the flaming is bad, once everyone on the board was friendly and helpful, now its turning out into a slag match. So I would hope you think about the following: 1 warning, then your out. *quoted* "but if one mod/admin warns, and others dont know about it, then that effectivly ruins that idea" solution? = simply create 1 of 2 things, whatever is easier to setup on your end. a) make a hidden forum on the board only available to mods/admins where you and they can put in a message to other admins showing he/she has been warned b) simply make a new page that is somehow linked to the bboard where if the user has been warned by an admin, a small picture is placed under his/her name that clearly shows they have been warned. This way EVERYONE knows they have been warned, and whoever placed the warning MUST tell the warned in detail why. A no tolerance attitude is clearly the way to go until these people have been taken care of, because as Neobond clearly stated in his original posting, what was once a friendly place to be is now crumbling. I for one hope this place never crumbles... Anyway, hope you like my idea and feel free to work on it if you guys like it. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted March 24, 2002 Share Posted March 24, 2002 Now that I think about it, the warning system wouldn't work. a) After some time, it could get to a point where the mods are looking through long lists to see if someone has been warned or not. As smart as the mods are, they can't remember everyone who has been warned...especially by a different mod 2) using the warning system has holes because the mods will miss some "flames" now and again. So a person could end up having 3rd and 4th and 5th chances simply because they weren't caught. And some would take advantage of this c) I'm sure there are more Right now the system seems to be set so there are 2nd and 3rd and 4th chances...and even more. Constant flamers cause more flamers. I say one flame and yer out. If you respond to a flame with a flame, your out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 This may seem farfetched, but somehow a system that would automatically warn someone who uses a certain combination of words. The system would notify the user of what words were used and would also notify a moderator. The moderator would then notify the member if necessary (if the system warned a member for flaming or spamming even though the member did not do so.). It would probably cause more problems than it would solve, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Anarkii Subscriber² Posted March 25, 2002 Subscriber² Share Posted March 25, 2002 oooOOooo another idea! how bout simply, a "report card" like you used to get while at school? like on the personal profile, (make it available on the main page) the person getting warned will simply see instead of "welcome , you have new messages", have "You have been warned by Admin/Mod" and they can click that to see the warning placed by the mod. Then if another mod/admin sees the flame and tries to place a ban, that ban can only be made by one person (like neobond), so while mods/admins can made a warning, the warning will have to get reviewed by one "super mod or super admin" ... Mod/Admin warns flamer *** This automatically sets the thing on the main page, where the mod/admin has to write out a "report card" so to speak to send to the... Super Admin/Mod *** reviews the warning, places ban if nessessary. reminds me of getting sent out of class to see the principal :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimeryme Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Spyder's right. Branding someone with a *warned* on their avatar is just not right. Still, I think that is probably the best way to enforce option A with warnings. However, instead of letting everyone see that someone has been warned before, only mods should be able to see this. The branding is useful most to the mods anyway. Live Updates to the warning system is trickier though. Hmm. codyg11's idea with word alarms is a good one, but it's not infallible. many flamers already use spelling / character variations for vulgar words. too bad. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM5K Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Although some of the ideas expressed aren't great, I am glad to see the free flow of ideas, which can only lead to something positive for the entire site. This whole script that checks user posts and notified the user wouldn't work, I could sit here and flame you in the nicest words I've ever used, at the same time I could say something nice and accidentally put a word in that doesn't sound nice, you remember how the word filter would,or still does remove **** from matsu****a ? Computers are stupid, don't forget that. I am not for banning people, at least if it can be avoided, it just leads to people that want to do even more harm to the site. If there is some banning done I think a nice script that moderators could simply enter a user name and once that user name is entered more than X ammount of times (the moderators don't need to be concerned with that) a message would be sent to Redmark or Neobond containing the offending content, ammount of times the person has been warned by mods, and then basically Steve can determine if the user should be banned, or he can remove the marks against the user and the user goes back with X ammount of offenses (if Steve removed one or all). And that's what we have tingle for, that and to make fun of his name. Anyhow, I gotta go take a tingle, be back later for responses ! :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessterw Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 This is just my 1 cent worth (I'm a site owner too so I can't afford 2 cents anymore :D) on the subject and maybe some ideas. I apologize if I repeat anything someone else has said. So here goes... Warning system Any user caught flaming would recieve a warning. If they are caught flaming again they would be banned. Warnings would be in effect for a specified time period, say a month or two (maybe more, this could obviously be on a per user basis if needed), at which time the warning would be removed but the user could be kept on a "trouble makers" list or something. To achieve this solution while still keeping from overwhelming the admins/mods there could be a page that listed all the warned/problem users (and those banned maybe) with their warning status and the effective time period of their warning. To make it easy on the admins/mods this page should be filterable/searchable, instead of having to search through the whole list. Other options could include banning a user for a specified time period, banning users who have been warned x number of times, etc. All these "stats" could be listed on the page too. One thing, this page should not be public, in that only admins/mods should have access. Flaming A specific set of definitions for flaming should be implemented, so as to clear up any confusion on the matter. To me flaming is the constant degredation of another person's character and opinions. Calling someone stupid or something during a heated discussion is one thing, but doing the same when one has simply stated an opinion is another. This is especially true if it is a constant for the person in question (the flamer). A reminder of the flaming policies could be placed, in brief, in the posting area so that all can see it before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PabUK Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 This reminds me of a good looking mod I saw for phpBB 2 earlier today. It allowed certain member groups (as set by the admins) to give "cards" to users. These are red card - instant ban, yellow card - warning (after X amount of warnings user is banned automatically) and green - unban user. Perhaps there is a mod like this for vBulletin as well and it could be set up so that admins and mods can easily handle both warnings and in extreme cases an instant (if only temporary) ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahodes1 Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 A combination of A & B is required, things must get stricter so that people take the rules more seriously, but to make things stricter, more mods are needed. If you need any more mods, I'd be happy to help of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcalibur Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by PabUK This reminds me of a good looking mod I saw for phpBB 2 earlier today. It allowed certain member groups (as set by the admins) to give "cards" to users. These are red card - instant ban, yellow card - warning (after X amount of warnings user is banned automatically) and green - unban user. Perhaps there is a mod like this for vBulletin as well and it could be set up so that admins and mods can easily handle both warnings and in extreme cases an instant (if only temporary) ban. hmm... this is a very interesting concept.. does anyone have a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PabUK Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Link to the phpBB2 mod: http://mods.phpbb.com/viewtopic.php?t=3135 I find it a very good idea. If mods could give yellow cards (warnings) then nobody has to keep track of the warning level, it is recorded in the database and they are auto banned if they pass that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcalibur Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by PabUK Link to the phpBB2 mod: http://mods.phpbb.com/viewtopic.php?t=3135 I find it a very good idea. If mods could give yellow cards (warnings) then nobody has to keep track of the warning level, it is recorded in the database and they are auto banned if they pass that level. thanks :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 What a tangled web . . . So calling someone stupid during a heated discussion is OK, but not when they are just stating an opinion . . . is ignorant OK? Or what if they were just called shallow or narrow? Are we to include a new line of Smilies that will indicate anger? So the mod will know that it is a "heated discussion" and not simply a flame? Don't misunderstand me jester . . . I can understand your message and in large part I agree. Flaming is as old as forums. Quite frankly, some people deserve to be flamed . . . at least their message does. That is the nature of free speech. I think everyone out there needs to ask themselves a question and answer it honestly. Have you ever read a post that just made your blood boil, and then said what you really think? I think 95% of us have found ourselves in that position and for whatever reason, cut loose on the offending individual. Do not deny human nature my friends, we all have conflict in our lives at some point. What I hate to see, is when the posts become vulgar and obscene. A good flaming duel, artfully done, can be cathartic for those involved. The participants often walk away with some level of respect for the other, when the debate is done with clarity and good sense. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but it isn't the debate or the linguistic judo I mind. It's when one or more individuals cannot find a better way to articulate themselves other than to resort to crude vulgarities. You can create a set of rules and a bureaucracy to administer it. But then much of the life will be gone from your forum, if not the spirit. It will become a sterile environment where words and ideas are monitored to insure that we are all thinking and speaking correctly. Is that what you want? Really? Where I say black and everyone must nod in assent? Where those who say white cannot say it with all the passion that they feel for it? I don't mind if someone tells me that I am talking out my arse . . . as long as the subject of our conversation remains the issue at hand. Haven't you ever read a thread where a post contains a particularly great piece of logic, articulated with a subtle verbal jab, and found yourself thinking . . . boy . . . he got him good didn't he? I'm not saying that we need to have bar brawls around here . . . but at the same time . . . a good spirited discussion is medicine for the mind. moderate values, not words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohoy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 i will quickly add my own personal opinion i think we should can the general section. it just contains way to much useless posts. those start the flames. they also waste space and time. much of it probably hurts this community. i remember once when this site was almost in trouble for loosing some techy edge, and after i would go around the general section im surprised the site didnt get shut down. so just drop the whole general section since most of it is useless. and most of it helps no one, except for those who want a conversation on who has the coolest setup, or why linux is better than windows. really i dont care to see questions like the ones on the front page now in the recent forum posts, i can make that such a general statement since everytime i have looked recently i have found at least one post that is useless. but back to the point i would think to get rid of all the flaming you should also get rid of post counts, who cares how much you post if its all the crap in the general section that has no pertinence. the only post that matters is the one that makes you a little bit more knowledgable, not the one that bashes your graphics card or its maker. so get rid of the little i have 1K posts so im super sweet, im l33t and all that crap. just post to post and help people on their merry way. thanks to all you great kids in the linux os forum too. great people and great help even though i dont care for your os. the ones that helped me had some ideal quotes. and so ill quote the opening statement of one. so this is from SonicYouthXY just look at the first line and then ill cut out the rest becuase its yucky details sorry to hear Linux was not for you. you need to reset your Master Boot Record. thats it i bashed this kids os and all he says is sorry then helps me out. he only has like 45 posts but that really doesnt diminish the quality of what he told me. so i will end with this i hope to come back to this forum every so often and see that some people resemble those exemplary qualities in the posts of one SonicYouthXY. kudos to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 ...or in a new and unusual move, NeoWin could have a Flame section added to the forums. This is where people could flame each other to their hearts content. Any flaming outside this section would result in an instant ban from the forums for a 1 month period. This way NeoWin could give people a place to vent, while adding all the disclaimers they want. I know this won't happen, but it would be a funny thing to do. I'd check the Flame forum every 30 min to see whats going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 but back to the point i would think to get rid of all the flaming you should also get rid of post counts, who cares how much you post if its all the crap in the general section that has no pertinence. the only post that matters is the one that makes you a little bit more knowledgable, not the one that bashes your graphics card or its maker. so get rid of the little i have 1K posts so im super sweet, im l33t and all that crap. just post to post and help people on their merry way. You are right. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldyn Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 The idea of a "flamers forum" was already suggested by Neobond below.... https://www.neowin.net/bboard/showthread.ph...&threadid=19434 personally i think it will only serve to encourage more of the same. Something we can certainly do without. :( If people have a problem with each other they should contact admin, or resolve their differences in private. Email, PM, or chat. Keep it off the boards. By doing so you help to keep things clean around here, and it will make for a much more enjoyable experience for all. I don't like having to wade through pages of flaming in threads to find what i am looking for. Some threads get so badly polluted with flames, that the original purpose of the thread becomes lost. Look at Y/C's sosumi thread. It's quite rediculous really. :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by superbeast ...or in a new and unusual move, NeoWin could have a Flame section added to the forums. This is where people could flame each other to their hearts content. Any flaming outside this section would result in an instant ban from the forums for a 1 month period. This way NeoWin could give people a place to vent, while adding all the disclaimers they want. I know this won't happen, but it would be a funny thing to do. I'd check the Flame forum every 30 min to see whats going on... No offense, but this would just further degrade the quality of this site. It would just let people run rampant flaming each other, which is what is trying to be prevented, not secluded to a particular part of the forum. You are right that it may be funny, but as I said above, it would further degrade the quality of the community. I hope that there is no offense taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldyn Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by codyg11 No offense, but this would just further degrade the quality of this site. It would just let people run rampant flaming each other, which is what is trying to be prevented, not secluded to a particular part of the forum. You are right that it may be funny, but as I said above, it would further degrade the quality of the community. I hope that there is no offense taken. Exactly. Well said cody ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PabUK Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Flaming forums don't work, they only serve to fuel the fires they are supposed to put out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Dorr Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by PabUK Link to the phpBB2 mod: http://mods.phpbb.com/viewtopic.php?t=3135 I find it a very good idea. If mods could give yellow cards (warnings) then nobody has to keep track of the warning level, it is recorded in the database and they are auto banned if they pass that level. http://www.vbulletin.org/hacks/index.php?a...hack&hackid=158 A similar hack for vBulletin (version 2.2.3, but I'm sure it can be worked into .4...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Yeah, obviously the flamers forum is a bad idea. I just think it would be funny to have a place to go see people make idiots of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unspec Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by superbeast Yeah, obviously the flamers forum is a bad idea. I just think it would be funny to have a place to go see people make idiots of themselves. We've already got one of those, it's the internet. Oh, and Springer. ;) -- unspec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 lol ah springer, I cant beleive people agree to go on that show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessterw Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by TimeRider What a tangled web . . . So calling someone stupid during a heated discussion is OK, but not when they are just stating an opinion . . . is ignorant OK? Or what if they were just called shallow or narrow? Are we to include a new line of Smilies that will indicate anger? So the mod will know that it is a "heated discussion" and not simply a flame? Don't misunderstand me jester . . . I can understand your message and in large part I agree. I understand your statement, and I can agree. What I was trying to point out is that people can get personal in heated debates and that implementing a system where every "flame" gets the poster warned or banned would become impossible to handle. And I was referring more to a conversation between two or more people through a series of posts. However if someone consistently degrades the comments/posts of others without reason that is different. Also I was using the word "stupid" as an example... mainly because it was one I had just seen used. In addition some words and phrases have a more negative conotation than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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