Greenmuncher Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 i agree with a... and i agree with the hall of sinners, all people that are added there should have their ip(s) showen, and email address just my 2 cents Greenmuncher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurting101 Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by Greenmuncher i agree with a... and i agree with the hall of sinners, all people that are added there should have their ip(s) showen, and email address just my 2 cents Greenmuncher I think that would be a violation of Neowin's privacy statement (if Neowin has one) IPs can't be posted, because over time it may change, and be some innocent bystander's(?) IP that gets angry net send messages and constant pinging. :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Those ip's could be victims of DOS attacks, which would certainly cause more problems than it would solve. I agree with the "hall of shame" idea, but not to the point where ip adresses are displayed. Maybe the e-mail address since that is available in any of the flamer's posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 There's no need to display flamer IP or email. Just the flamers NeoWin user name and type of offense. Maybe include a snippet of their flame in the 'thread of shame'. So would these people be banned for good or for a limited time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aco Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Time for my two cents. Back in the day, all I used to do on the forum was help people with computer problems. As the forum grew there were less and less people asking for help and more and more posing general questions. These general questions require much more opinionated answers, opinons clash and disputes occur. Well thats my theory on what's happened over the last few months. What can we do about it? It's totally unreasonable to think that all the members will have the same opinion, as it is unreasonable to think that all members will accept other opinions. I may be wrong, but I think the problem lies in the responses. If a member disagrees with another member, instead of attacking the other member's opinion, they tend to attack the other member (by calling them an idiot for example). I'm not really sure how this could be stopped, but I think expanding the rules would be a step towards solving this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis_nehc Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Haven't finish reading all the posts yet. But thought I would reply first while I still have some thoughts in my head. I think everyone should just simply have respect fot the board. I mean, the methods mentioned... well, they won't work. Why? Simple, if the nick is banned, they can come back with another one, etc. IP-wise... well, though probably most of us are using broadband now, there's still that's using dial.up. So their ip's will change and that won't work "that" great. And there's that deleting issue. Well, if one of the mod suddenly decide to get high or something, or has personal distaste for someone... well, there that person goes. So what I am basically saying is... repect others like how we respect our own self. Heh, for those that don't even respect themselves... well, there's no hope is there? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Dorr Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Yeah, we need to expand the rules a bit and go into more detail... 4 Simple lines at the top of the page isn't going to cut it... Also, if we were to add more mods (which I think would be great) what is the selection/hiring/application process. I'd be overly thrilled to help out modding this board. I'm on here 24/7 anyways (just ask daneiloli ;) ), and am always seeing things that need some sort of moderation. Just wondering how I can help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dARKSTAr Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 The problem is that the forum has become too large for the moderators to handle. It seems to me that most of the suggestions will only further add to the problem. I think that TimeRider is going in the right direction with closing threads that get too crazy and banning people based on the seriousness of the crime. Think about it, if i kill someone, the police won't come and warn me. They'll put me in prison. If a poster goes off and does something really crazy, they should be banned permanently, no questions asked. If their actions are minor, then i think they need to be contacted personally by a moderator and warned, and maybe be put on a list viewable only by other moderators. The idea of some sort of public ridicule by the community, seems a bad idea and will only add to the problem. Maybe it will cause some people who don't like the said poster to try and inflame him to violate the rules specifically to get him banned. This being said, it seems that Neowin must add additional moderators but i think it needs to be extremely careful in adding mods at the drop of the hat. I trust the current staff to make wise decisions in this area and am happy to see that Neobond is addressing this issue because we talked about it in another thread where i expressed my concerns to him on the state of Neowin. I was one of the first people on the net that i know. I first went on when a 14.4 modem was considered fast and hardly anyone had one. I've seen a lot of promising forums go by the wayside because when they got large they couldn't handle the load. It makes me seriously concerned about the future of Neowin and not optimistic, I'm sorry to say. I hope that the problems can be ironed out, but i heard frustration in Neobond's post and who would blame them if Neobond, Redmak, et al, just packed up their toys and went home? Not to be ageist, but i think that a lot of the problems come from very young people who have a lot of time on their hands and the freedom to post whatever they feel, and so they post something ridiculous because it's funny, or at least they think it's funny, and they care very little about the state of the Neowin community cause they can always go somewhere else if Neowin dies. I don't envy the decisions that the staff have to make, it's going to be difficult fraught with lots of headaches. But i wish you the best of luck and offer you my services if i can help in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3onheart Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Well, dARKSTAr has made very good points and I totally agree with him. Choose new mods carefuly. I'm available for modding or helping in any ways necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustardFD Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by hurting101 I think that would be a violation of Neowin's privacy statement (if Neowin has one) IPs can't be posted, because over time it may change, and be some innocent bystander's(?) IP that gets angry net send messages and constant pinging. :s IPs were posted for Anon posts until this was disabled quite recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aco Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by hurting101 I think that would be a violation of Neowin's privacy statement (if Neowin has one) IPs can't be posted, because over time it may change, and be some innocent bystander's(?) IP that gets angry net send messages and constant pinging. :s https://www.neowin.net/privacy.shtml And you're right, IP's of members will not be posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustardFD Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Ok, I know PabUK mentioned a cards system earlier for the user, but if people are against banning or warnings then what about users being able to mod up or down, say, two posts per 15 in a thread, similar to Slashdot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElGato Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by PabUK Link to the phpBB2 mod: http://mods.phpbb.com/viewtopic.php?t=3135 I find it a very good idea. If mods could give yellow cards (warnings) then nobody has to keep track of the warning level, it is recorded in the database and they are auto banned if they pass that level. Maybe the "Yellow Cards", could show instead of or next to their Avatar, so easily tracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0tn3t Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 I say we should use 'a' and 'b', also, we should make the rules a very dominant feature on the page when posting a reply. And make it known, that if you harass, you will be banned. Thats' all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinatum Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 heh.. i think the hall of shame is pretty funny. but i think some of the threads on themes.. get out of hand at times.. off topic ect.. with people dissing the theme and then flammage begins. i think a simple way to solve that would be to make it so when you post a thread in the themes section, you post a SS and dl link and once you submit it the thread gets locked and all the comments,flammage ect.. get emailed or icq or yahoo or msn or aim to you.. but thats just my 2 pesos mac/osx related themes too.. cauz you got people who say "oh making windows look like mac is stupid" and "windows is better than mac" and neowin war III erupts over who thinks which is better again just my 2 pesos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nd3r Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by aco Time for my two cents. Back in the day, all I used to do on the forum was help people with computer problems. As the forum grew there were less and less people asking for help and more and more posing general questions. These general questions require much more opinionated answers, opinons clash and disputes occur. Well thats my theory on what's happened over the last few months. What can we do about it? It's totally unreasonable to think that all the members will have the same opinion, as it is unreasonable to think that all members will accept other opinions. I may be wrong, but I think the problem lies in the responses. If a member disagrees with another member, instead of attacking the other member's opinion, they tend to attack the other member (by calling them an idiot for example). I'm not really sure how this could be stopped, but I think expanding the rules would be a step towards solving this problem. I could not agree more! Preach it brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis_nehc Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Haha, since we are talking about this, I should mention that for most of the time, we - people here at Neowin, are much better than most boards already. If one take a look at boards at, for example, ISOnews, it's totally laughable. Everyone there is f*ed in the head somehow, always ready to bite someone's neck. It's hard to find a post that does not contain any put down, flaming, name calling, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM5K Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 MMM, I vant to suck your blooood ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustardFD Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Has anyone noticed that in most of threads along these lines (there are a number in Site and Forum Issues) that noone ever condems them with a flame? :smart: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3onheart Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by danieloli Has anyone noticed that in most of threads along these lines (there are a number in Site and Forum Issues) that noone ever condems them with a flame? :smart: Hmmm yes, I wonder why :lick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nXP_151 Veteran Posted March 25, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2002 Strictier rules is the way to go, I am on ya, Neobond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Originally posted by HackerSp0rtZ heh.. i think the hall of shame is pretty funny. but i think some of the threads on themes.. get out of hand at times.. off topic ect.. with people dissing the theme and then flammage begins. i think a simple way to solve that would be to make it so when you post a thread in the themes section, you post a SS and dl link and once you submit it the thread gets locked and all the comments,flammage ect.. get emailed or icq or yahoo or msn or aim to you.. but thats just my 2 pesos mac/osx related themes too.. cauz you got people who say "oh making windows look like mac is stupid" and "windows is better than mac" and neowin war III erupts over who thinks which is better again just my 2 pesos Well said. The part about the themes being restricted to only a ss and a link is a good idea, but the one problem with that is that would pretty much require more modding since every thread with a theme must be locked. There could be an option that would designate that thread as being theme-releated, and the thread would be automatically locked, but some would not follow. Therefore, mods would have to patrol the themes section all the time just to see if they designate their posts as "theme" posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Sometimes people try to trigger flaming. Even if it's unintentional. E.g. the usual Starwars postings here. - "w00t! there are new pictures of the EP2 set! cool! have a look, URL" - "star wars sucks, so does star trek! why did you even post it?" Something like that which happened multiple times here. If I were at the place of the thread starter, I would like reply in some harsh words which would however give me the ban. So it's all a circle. I reduced my posts anyway, so I hope I don't get affected by any changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Unfortunately, I have seen this many times. I just do not know why they have to post degrading material when they should just go about their business and let the people interested in the thread post their comments. Degrading something or someone because you are not interested in it is just not acceptable, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Anyone who has ever watched a hockey game, might recall an instance where the gloves were dropped and the fight ensued. I have often noticed the referees standing by as the two players simply tussled and threw innefective blows at each other. After a period, the officials would intervene, and those involved would be sent off to the penalty box for a few minutes. Why do the officials do this? Why don't they intercede immediately? Why aren't the combatants banned from hockey? Even after many such fights they are allowed to return. I'm sure that these officials know that fighting is a part of the game of hockey. Not anyone's favorite part I'd wager, but it has been happening as long as there has been hockey. The on-ice officials know that there needs to be some "steam-blowing" in order to keep the game and it's participants on an even keel. After all, this is a sport where each of the competitors carries a lethal weapon. So as long as the fight doesn't escalate to real peril, they let it go for a bit. I like Neowin. I think that the staff here has done an admirable job of creating an environment conducive to communication. I caution you in your efforts to clean out the riff-raff, not to be too heavy handed. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Flaming is a part of the forum world, as much as fighting is a part of hockey. The very nature of a public post, lends itself to the debate and perhaps even criticism. You cannot deny the nature of man and his response to what he perceives to be the challenge. You might need more moderators . . . but think about that word for a second. Moderator, of the root moderate: 1 a : avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits b : CALM, TEMPERATE 2 a : tending toward the mean or average amount or dimension b : having average or less than average quality : MEDIOCRE 3 : professing or characterized by political or social beliefs that are not extreme 4 : limited in scope or effect I take this to mean that they are there to prevent a situation from becoming extreme, not to play policeman everytime one person calls another an a**hole. I encourage the staff here to do whatever sits best with their sensibilities and not to be swayed by some of the extremists who have posted . . . even in this thread. Some folks need to get a little thicker skin, and not take everything so personally. It is after all a forum. Let's not take it too seriously. Like dARKSTAr, I have been around since modems were measured in baud, and 14.4 was lightening quick. If you get too restrictive, if your moderators are too heavy handed with punishment, you could be shooting yourself in the foot with your new policy. JMHO -TR P.S. to Neobond: At the Great and Bright End of things, What will you choose? What will you care to care for? I How do you choose, over infinite mysteries, your own patched answers, full of tears and holes? I could drive a semi truck through the gaps in your conclusions. Blind assertions fall from your lips like the toads and dull stones of the fairy-tale sister who envied her siblings fortune of jeweled and rosy breath. I have no jewels to offer (only a glorious lack of toads) and comfort is quite lost when you've nothing to hold on to and the wind blows harsh and cold. But I am free, and free to laugh at crumbling foundations and falling walls and me. II Can you not see this cage you've built of iron bars and circled arguments will drag you to the bottom when your raft gives out? Yet you believe so resolutly you are willing to die for it. I'd like to sing through the bars of your cage as the wind tickle the back of your neck. A cool breath of fresh air . . . But I am afraid of the view from inside your cage afraid I'll look out and see iron bars of my own No! I am free. Free to ask, and change my mind. Free to see the chaos rattling at your bars Free. III Yet you belive so resolutely you are willing to die for it. That's a kind of freedom too. Freedom from logic maybe, but to believe and die for it of it. Alluring lack of responsibility or maybe poisoned dose of too much . . . To keep faith even unto death. Or do you? Do you regret, even as I do? At the Great and Bright End of things . . . IV I'm in the midst of a crisis of unfaith. I worship my logic, reasoning, common sense, clear vision. Couldn't stop my questioning, even if I wanted. I don't Believe. I watch you block out the raging world in favor of your own small sense of it. Living a blindness of your own creation. I was proud of my wide vision, proud I knew so much of what is not truth. But you are proud too. Defending this lie you built and named 'The Only Right'. In the end I do not understand how we are different; You, aboard your sinking raft and me, swimming alongside in the storm. Go Gentle, By Erika Fawcett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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