neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel BTW 2 hours ago. a suicide bombing at a bus stop in a central Jerusalem market blew him (or her) self up. 6 people are dead and up to 70 are wounded. I know 35 palestinian refugee`s here in toronto and some are student and what they say is absolutely contrary to what you say btw, it also reaffirms that Yasir Arafat has no control over one of the people who want to hijack the peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drinkrbell Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 uuh? First you have misundertood me . I inserted that 3,000 years old claim ironically, and I think I explained that I called it a ?fable?. Second.. What borders and what crap?! Jews haven?t invaded any borders, with no army and no nothing. There were no borders to begin with. And might I add, the Jews residing in Hebron through that whole time, were those religious Jews who got killed. Immigrating Jews concentrated in Tel-Aviv, Petach-Tikva NOT in Hebron, since its considered a religiously secrate city. Still that justifies a massacre? And Israel existence is in dispute by Arab world mostly, who in its most does not even acknowledge it. What?s in debate is the existence of a potential/future Palestinian state. And in my opinion, and Israel?s official opinion, that is un debatable as well, since we have and do agree to such a state. So what if Argentina was offered? Jews have a historical/cultural/religious bond to this place. No other. And I really didn?t want to bring this up, but Palestinians weren?t even a nation at the time Israel was founded. They were Arabs from Jordan mostly, Egypt and Lebanon, who lived scattered around what the British mandate called-Palestine. The Palestinian nation has formed since, and as a result of the founding of Israel. And read up in a dictionary and historic explanation of what anshlus means(and its historical reference), before you trumpet with bombastic terms. Israel occupied and took territories(Jerusalem included), after being attacked, not only by the Palestinians, but by armies of all the surrounding Arab countries, in a justified war of self defense, as any country, takes or loses territories. And it retreated to its original borders in all of its wars until 67. What, are you justifying terrorist attacks?! You plan to tell me its just and well for 360 innocent civilians to just, die off, in one big boom, after boom? Who cares if its in Jerusalem or tel-aviv or settlements. For your information(and you are welcome to look up at documentation) Israel has shown restrain at all of the terrorist attacks made in settlements. Jerusalem isn?t a settlement!! And who the hell wants to BE with the Palestinians?! we have been trying to build them a damn state for almost 10 years! They were offered one time and again. They have been given an autonomy.(which Arafat has shown to run poorly and has turned in to a green-house for terrorism anti Israeli/jewish propaganda) What do you call the offered at Camp-David agreement? Arafat was offered all of the territories back, including the original division of Jerusalem. He refused the agreement. I?ve already explained that whole bit in a previous post. I won?t repeat myself. I find it disgusting , annoying, and offensive to debate with people who obviously have no respect for life, especially mine. Now if you excuse me, I am going to bury my dead!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 In war the winner captures land. Do you want to return the land that the US got from Mexico? I don't believe the issues are the same . . . however . . . if the United States Government signed a treaty that called for the return of the land, I would expect them to honor it. Comparing the situation in the US to that of Israel is apples and oranges. That was a different time and place. I don't say this to excuse the methods used to establish the United States, but the situation over here is far less viscous. I would suggest that if we suddenly occupied Mexico by military means and then exercised political control over the region ad infinitum, you'd have a case. The US after WWII did not continue to occupy Germany and Japan as your logic would indicate it was our right to do. What we did was provide assistance in the creation of a new Nation-State that would better co-exist in the post war world. As both Germany and Japan have since become significant economic powers in the world theater, i would say we did a damn good job. What happened 150 years ago is not relevant, nor is it an equal comparison to what is happening in Israel today. Let's be clear . . . I don't condone the methods my father's father used. But I do realize that if I am to be as uncompromising as they were, then I will have to live in a world as uncompromising as theirs. Teh citizens of Israel need to embrace this philosophy . . . lest the 54 years of unremitting hostility continue until the situation gets out of hand. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 About Jenin. First those 35 people , they live in toronto not here. Jenin is one big terrorist nest. I'm sorry if any innocent people were killed. They say we killed 200 people , maybe we did maybe we didn't we can't know , you can't trust them. And if 200 people were killed then most of them are surly terrorists , we lost there 14 soldiars. And now when I'm writing this The Hizbala is firing heavy fire on IDF posts in the north of the country. This fire didn't start now but 4 days ago , with no acts for us. And even Arabs were injured from this attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 12, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel About Jenin. First those 35 people , they live in toronto not here. Jenin is one big terrorist nest. I'm sorry if any innocent people were killed. They say we killed 200 people , maybe we did maybe we didn't we can't know , you can't trust them. And if 200 people we killed then most of them are surly terrorists. And now when I'm writing this The Hizbala is firing heavy fire on IDF post in the north of the country. This fire didn't start now but 4 days ago , with no acts for us. And even Arabs we injured from this attacks. and you expect to build peace on your mis-trust? LOOK AT YOUR WORDS! you wrote them not I you can't trust themOn this basis you demand they trust you?And if 200 people we killed then most of them are surly terrorists. I'm afraid I can't agree with that, you might - because thats what you are brought up to believe. Go figure mate.. this one sided argument will never be resolved unless both parties stop pointing at each other and look at themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel About Jenin. First those 35 people , they live in toronto not here. Jenin is one big terrorist nest. I'm sorry if any innocent people were killed. They say we killed 200 people , maybe we did maybe we didn't we can't know , you can't trust them. And if 200 people were killed then most of them are surly terrorists , we lost there 14 soldiars. And now when I'm writing this The Hizbala is firing heavy fire on IDF posts in the north of the country. This fire didn't start now but 4 days ago , with no acts for us. And even Arabs were injured from this attacks. Are you sharon`s advisor or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 It's more complicated than that. We gave them hundreds of opportunities to make peace. If there is no will from them , we can't do anything. And I never said that we can make peace with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 I find it disgusting , annoying, and offensive to debate with people who obviously have no respect for life, especially mine. Interesting arguement . . . What borders and what crap?! Jews haven?t invaded any borders, with no army and no nothing. There were no borders to begin with. http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M0082c.gif Says it all. So what if Argentina was offered? Jews have a historical/cultural/religious bond to this place. No other.So did the indigenous population.And I really didn?t want to bring this up, but Palestinians weren?t even a nation at the time Israel was founded. You're right, but they were promised one by the British in exchange for support during WWI. The Palestinian nation has formed since, and as a result of the founding of Israel.Really???? Where is it?And read up in a dictionary and historic explanation of what anshlus means Anschluss = Connection Typically refers to the annexation of Austria by nazi Germany through the use of military blackmail and a 5th column political movement. Now if you excuse me, I am going to bury my dead!! I am sorry for that . . . but I'd get used to it because it is only going to get worse . . . buy a bigger shovel. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by neo1980 Are you sharon`s advisor or something? You know **** about Sharon , he's a great man (also in size :D ). He's smart and calm , he's not a murderer. If you say that he is , it's like saying the soldiers in Afghanistan are also murderers are any other soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john smith 1924 Veteran Posted April 12, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 12, 2002 this is a sad story, and one which isnt going to be resolved by some us beaurocrat visiting the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel It's more complicated than that. We gave them hundreds of opportunities to make peace. If there is no will from them , we can't do anything. And I never said that we can make peace with them. 1977- Sharon as a representative in ISraeli congress refused peace 1982- Sharon bombed 18,000 civilians and is thus wanted in Belgium for war crimes 1979 - Sharon votes against peace with egypt 1988 - Sharon votes against peace with Jordan 1995- Sharon votes against Rabin-Arafat peace treaty 1997 - Right wing Israeli assassinates Rabin thus bringing in Right wing government, ever since there HAS been no peace 1998-2000 - Every peace deal said we will give 88 percent of the rightful land, not 100 percent because they want the rest of the 12 percent of Israeli settlement building, never have they allowed thier security force in agreements to say we are going to bring it down to 15 percent they have always said..peace or no peace, Soldiers and tanks will stay. in september 2000 arafat didnt accept the camp david accord beacause of this but still wanted to talk more but Barak said in a statement that Arafat doesnt want peace which lead to sharon visiting the mosque whihc incited the Intafada while talks were still going on until Netenyahu came and he walked away. 47 Palestinians died before 1 israeli soldier died in retaliation IS THIS WAT YOU CALL PEACE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 12, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel You know **** about Sharon , he's a great man (also in size :D ). He's smart and calm , he's not a murderer. If you say that he is , it's like saying the soldiers in Afghanistan are also murderer are any other soldiers. why has he failed to listen to the UN then when the US, UK and European union have demanded he pull out and get back to the peace talks. When a man answers violence with violence he is NOT a great man he is either a fool or a war lusting parasite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by Neobond why has he failed to listen to the UN then when the US, UK and European union have demanded he pull out and get back to the peace talks. When a man answers violence with violence he is NOT a great man he is either a fool or a war lusting parasite. Yes he didn't listen , and why you ask? It's because we didn't finish what we started and that is to eradicate terrorists. And it's not called "violence" it's called self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 daniel you mean to say 87,900 civilians killed since 1967 were all terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Just go here . I didn't want to bring it up but the Palastinans hate us , no not Israelis , Jews. Did you know that they helped the Natzis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 12, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 12, 2002 And it's not called "violence" it's called self defense. Like I said, maybe its called that where you come from. I dont see the connection in flattening entire housing complexes where "terrorists" are supposed to be harboured. PS: The self defense you talk of looks more like offensive action, but that might just be the media twisting it all in Palestinian favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Daniel thats a geocities local page made by some Israeli supporter, there are many falsified pages around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by Neobond Like I said, maybe its called that where you come from. I dont see the connection in flattening entire housing complexes where "terrorists" are supposed to be harboured. PS: The self defense you talk of looks more like offensive action, but that might just be the media twisting it all in Palestinian favour. Mmmm... They killed more than 50 people in 2 days , we had to crack down on terrorism. If that's not self-defence , what is? Click here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by neo1980 Daniel thats a geocities local page made by some Israeli supporter, there are many falsified pages around Nope it's a real one this time. These are all the Israeli people who were killed in this intifada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel Just go here . I didn't want to bring it up but the Palastinans hate us , no not Israelis , Jews. Did you know that they helped the Natzis? u mean to say these unfortunate Israeli`s who died are more important that 10 times the palestinians who died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by daniel Mmmm... They killed more than 50 people in 2 days , we had to crack down on terrorism. If that's not self-defence , what is? Click here Israels IDF killed 210 civilians in 2 days, thats through UN and the numbers are growing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 i mean look its basically the US and Israeli policy vs the rest of the world, the only reason the US is in this because of oil, why dont they pay such attention to Columbian terrorists or the situtation in Kashmir, or in Northern Ireland, compared to this dispute over occupation of a land smalller than all 3 of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by neo1980 u mean to say these unfortunate Israeli`s who died are more important that 10 times the palestinians who died? I never said that. The tora and the Jews appreciate (couldn't find the right word) life more than anything. As for the Islam , it's a 180 degrees turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 unfortunately some people take on a life as a suicide bombings because there is no hope in them and im sick of Israeli`s comparing 9/11 with these bombings, those ppl from9/11 were terrorists because thier goal is to detroy America, these have always just said, " we want our land back" thats it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniel Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by neo1980 Israels IDF killed 210 civilians in 2 days, thats through UN and the numbers are growing Were they innocent or not? Most of them weren't. I'm sure 10-20 were but that's because they got in the line of fire (And they may got shot by Palestinians). The 50 who were murdered did nothing. They were innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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