Your thoughts of the Israel-Palestine Conflict


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Ok I'm gonna go from last to first:

No, Israel is not a free country. It is an armed camp which oppresses many of the people living there if they are not of the correct belief system.

and that comes from living here ?!

you really got no clue, Israel has many non jew citizens such as Russians, Israeli Arabs and Ityopians, so please get your facts straight, all of them get the same rights and an equal vote in election most of them got representation in our Knesset (our goverment for that matter) and are not abused in any way despite the fact that some of them are not our best citizens and are not jews in anyway (some of them are but I'm talking about the non jews).

as a matter of fact because tommorow is our independence day statistics of the population have been released and out of 6.5 million citizens 1.8 of them are non jews adn get full rights.

And again Palastinians are not our citizens and never were and probobly never going to be.

Oh, how kind of you not to commit open genocide. As for the Church thing they were legally granted santuary and the Israelis are violating it whenever they get a chance to, I.E. killing the bell ringer and a Palestinian policeman when he went out to put out a fire in the church's courtyard. BTW, the so-called gunmen in there are unarmed since they gave all of their weapons to the priests and monks.

I wasn't saying that to show how "kind" we are, what I was trying to say is that it's just not our intention to kill people who have done nothing but to take out the people who use terrorisem as a lagit way of fighting.

Of course not, they don't see Palestinians as ever being children, they are just potiental terrorists.

Again NO, as someone who is a solider in Israel (though not a worrior) and who'm is brother is and has to be there, we don't just shoot in the air or anything of that type, don't forget it's a war zone mixed up with a city and no matter how hard we try people who done nothing die, but in no way we do it for the fun of it or get rid of some extra Palastinians (again ulike another group in the area called The Islamic Jihad...).

I don't know if you remmeber the case of that kid that was shown on the TV getting shot at at the hands of his father and then dying, well Israel was blaimed for that and for a long time we were always attacked for that, one year later it was turned out that the kid was shot by the Palastinian fire (French report) please don't tell me that the Palastinians did it because they felt like killing the kid. like accidents happen to them they happen to us as well.

I suppose that in South Africa the whites there didn't see themselves as invaders either.

I mean how the hell is that the same ?!

we don't use Palastinans as slaves and we didnm't take their lands to expand our terretory or for money etc.

Israel went into Palastinian terretory for a few reasons, one is after they tried to take ours we took theirs to protect ourselvs, second was that (this is about Gaza strip) Egypt didn't want it so we agreed to take it.

the Israelies who sit there (thought I don't like the idea that they sit there) are only to make sure it doesn't become another Lebanon case and simply that.

Israel number one concern is it's citizens and only then others just as any other country... sorry for being that way but thats not going to change... fact.

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Originally posted by ooo

who wins? you must understand that Israel has the power to wipe off the Palastinians in a day
If you can, you mean. Thats why back in history you will find lots of masscares against plastinians. whenever an open chance, you will defently see one. and in these masscares 90% where civilians.

Lets face the fact, that Israelis are criminals, and they love blood.

I would also want to remind you that the Palastinians were asked to keep 7 days with no terror acts and in return we will move back and start [eace talks. the offer was given three times and not in any case did the Palastinians kept the 7 days.

Please don't make jokes. there was never an entention for pece with the Palestinians. Oslo was just a gateway for the other countries. Israel well used this point aginst the Arabs. I have to admit that.

I'm sorry I do not eccept the freedom fight excuse, when jews were depressed terrorisem act's in the name of Tziyunut never happend and if one would have ever happend trust me the jew community would have suffered 10 times from what the Palastinians have from us - their terror support.
Pleeeeeeeeease............

If you are right, then all the massacres mentioned in history was what...

just an example of what the Palastinians have:

Misiles

RPG's

chain guns

etc.

If this true, you can be 100% sure, no Israeli solder will dare to get near that place (thats why they don't want to touch Gaza).

and why don't you watch TV, you can clearly see that lots of weapons used by Palestinians are hand made. even the booms used in their sucidal attack is hand made. If they have what you are saying, your casualties will not be less than the 9/11's.

about the never ending cycle, Israel is not acting for revenge you can see that because Israel hasn't responded to terrorisem for a long time and actually have started acting on it latly after not doing anything for a long time (rabin-Peres-Netanyaho) but because of the growing terrorisem acts and the open window we got from the US after it's war on terrorisem we finally react to the acts, so it's not because of revenge but to disable as much as we can the terrorist org's
:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

Frist of all about your pictures. truth - probobly yes, but it's war, you can not balim Israel for wanting to punnish the terrorists who hide among the innocents. It's them to blaim, if Palastinians don't want people to die they shouldn't hide terrorists.

Then don't blame Palestinians, cuz it is war.

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and again from last to first...

And Israel has nuclear weapons as well. What's your point?

We will not use such weapon - well we can't use it on ourselvs now can we, I'm just saying they have alternativs other then using the bombing bus thingi...

And don't you see that when you use the same tactics it only makes the Palestinian people just as strong and united as you, in fact more so since they are more than willing to die for their beliefs.

maybe, not the point... just saying the majority here is going to the right, I don't think peace talks will ever happen if right wing will be the leading party and left will slowly die.

Who makes them illegal, the Israelis? This sounds quite familiar.

UN, Oslo, Israel, hell even Arafat, USA, UK etc. thats who...

Of course you would believe this since you are on the other side.

ammm facts facts and again facts... just look at the jewish history and then look at the Palastinian history...

Funny, this is basically what they say of you and by some of the acts I've seen done by the Israeli side they have a more valid point.

sorry didn't get what you are saying...

The news media must be quite censored in Israel. Of course it is revenge and an opportunity to steal more land as well. If Saddam did this sort of thing everyone would be all over him.

HAHAH sorry no censorship over here... democracy and freedom of information plus we also watch the world news CNN NBC etc. so there is really no censorship over here plus we actually do live here and see what actually happens unlike you who seem to know nothing about the way thigs go over here, I'm sure that in you head you see some desert and Israelis using camels which is totaly wrong hell I've never seen a camel in my life ;) but back to the point I've noticed people really have no idea how Israel is the way it looks and they way we work... our goverment works 100% lke the british goverment (election and ruling) and our army is under it...

Wasn't Rabin murdered by a fellow Israeli?

Yes he was, but that is really not the pont, thats like blaiming half of Israel for the death of rabin while the blaim is on the only few which can be counted on one hand that should be blaimed, the prefrence of the murderer is so unimportant.

The only way you are going to stop the terrorists act, short of leaving all of the occupided terrorities, is to kill every last Palestinian man, woman, and child. Anyone who believes that what Sharon is doing now will do what he wants is a fool. This will only give the Palestinains more of a valid cause to fight for. You are only helping them in the eyes of the rest of the world. They is one reason why military leaders make such losey governmental leaders. Sharon is an incompetent leader and a fool.

ok two points to react about, Israel can not leave at the moment because of two reasons, it can't because it will seem as if it lost to the Palastinians and I'm sorry as much as I hate to admit it polotics are polotics... other reason that is if we leave we would get a hell of a terror weave which will be so hard to handle and we know that terrorisem will not end by getting out as Jihad and Hammas say it openly that it will not end till we leave all of the terretory - even ours, plus we can't leave one sidly without commitment of ending all fight...

as for "Sharon is an incompetent leader and a fool." well looks like he won the majority and you pretty much don't live here so that means your opinion about that doesn't mean much, I for one do not like him and didn't vote for him but he won in a democratical election and thereofre Israel people are backing him up and they are the ones who actually count in the case...

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If you can, you mean. Thats why back in history you will find lots of masscares against plastinians. whenever an open chance, you will defently see one. and in these masscares 90% where civilians.

Lets face the fact, that Israelis are criminals, and they love blood.

hmm thats about 100% the same words they use about you over here... just a biased opinion which says nothing... your numbers though are totaly unbased... show me real numbers not something fromt the top of your head...

Please don't make jokes. there was never an entention for pece with the Palestinians. Oslo was just a gateway for the other countries. Israel well used this point aginst the Arabs. I have to admit that.

yes there was, sorry been here, lived here and I do know what has been going on here, we did mean for peace and around the year 1995-1997 you might say most of Israel were willing for peace uptill the Purim vication when three buses in two days exploded and well all peace whishs left for killing wishs

Pleeeeeeeeease............

If you are right, then all the massacres mentioned in history was what...

looking for someone to blaim for losses of war, money jobs etc. simple as that.

If this true, you can be 100% sure, no Israeli solder will dare to get near that place (thats why they don't want to touch Gaza).

and why don't you watch TV, you can clearly see that lots of weapons used by Palestinians are hand made. even the booms used in their sucidal attack is hand made. If they have what you are saying, your casualties will not be less than the 9/11's.

how would you call the Kasams you are shooting at us ?

or how about the two tanks you took down

trust me the Israeli army would go into a well armed place as well, history has shown us that, you do have thouse weapons and you know it as well as I do. the home made ones also exist and are commenly used because the good ones are thought to be kept when all hell brakes...

Then don't blame Palestinians, cuz it is war.

I'm not, I'm blaiming terrorisem and a mis fortune of history events which got us both into a place both of us wished that would have never happend..

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Originally posted by ooo

I'm sorry but I guess you are uninformed at the Palastinian weapon status.

Karin - A, just an example of what the Palastinians have:

Misiles

RPG's

chain guns

etc.

don't be fooled they have other means of fighting but they prefer killing the innocent

Against my better judgement, i'm going to respond to this. Just because the palestinians have missiles, rpg's, machine guns, etc doesn't mean that they have the military might to stand up to the israeli's on the field of battle.

Again using my examples of the Vietcong and the Afghans. They weren't fighting the American and Soviet miltaries with spears and rocks. They were fighting them with missiles, rpg's, machine guns and other weapons. And you know what? They fought them with guerilla/terrorist methods. I had two brothers fight in Vietnam. One was killed there. The other brother has told me many times of the little 9 year old vietnamese boy, who walked into a restaurant, crowded with people, only a few of which were soldiers. He blew himself up and killed a whole lot of people in that restaurant.

Now, the vietcong were much better organized militarily than the palestinians are and they used themselves as human bombs, just like the palestinians do.

One other thing, two friends i have are a palestinian and an israeli who used to live in israel. These men have become great friends. I told their story once before in a similiar discussion about this conflict. It's truly an inspirational story how these men became friends, but i won't go into the details about how this happened. I will tell you this much when you say that the conflict over there isn't about revenge.

This palestinian came home one day to find people gathered around his house. An israeli tank had misfired and hit his home killing his wife and kids.

If he had been so inclined, he could have strapped bombs to his body and walked into a crowd of israelis and detonated the bomb killing a lot of people. And even though he felt like it he didn't. But don't you think there are many palestinians who do make themselves human bombs and who kill israeli's out of revenge?

My israeli friend was part of the military and he said that some israeli soldiers can't wait to join the army so they can go and kill palestinians to avenge the deaths of their friends and family who have been killed. In fact, he felt the same way when he joined, but realized that he was wrong to feel that way.

So, if you think that revenge is not a reason for many of the problems there, then you aren't opening your eyes. It's called human nature.

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I wont denay that some can't wait to join the army for that reason but they are so little, most of the people here go to the army only because you have to and they do their orders and nothing more nothing less.

I never saied Palastinians and Israelis couldn't be friends but the world in which we live in at the moment in this area can not let us do that, it's pretty much no one can trust no one.

I can talk about number of cases of friends from both sides here as well and in some cases groups from both sides, this is a know thing, not commen but it exists.

but again the problem is trust, youcan't trust any arab and no arab can trut and Israeli just to be honest.

but this is not starting from revenge, the conflict started when the leaders of the Arab Coalition decided that Israel is not legit and attacked it, before that things were not that bad but that started it all and from there it all became a down hill with ups and downs.

Israel no matter if along the way it didn't always do the right thing been forced to this situation and rahter getting out of the Palastinian land would stop this all is higly debatable and I for one who believe history repeats itself believe that getting out will not fix anything and first there should be an agreement and only then Israel should pull out. other people think otherwise and thats fine with me whats not fine is that people are making this into a hate thread about jews or the other way around about Palastinians and I for one think its totaly wrong.

about Vietnam and other wars, it's not the same, Israel is here and has a real threat to existence while US had that war because of fear of Comunisem.... I highly differ with you about how things are the same.

Also don't underestemate the Palastinians military organization

they are not so poor as they seem to be, the Palastinian people are poor and I feel bad for them as their leadership only hopes to gain profit from things and freedom is just something that comes from the side, a reminder that Arafat has twice the money the Palastinians have and if you watched the Larry king interview you would notice how he tried to avoid that question. Don't be mistaken with the Palastinan people and their terror leadership

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Originally posted by ooo

Ok I'm gonna go from last to first:

and that comes from living here ?!

you really got no clue, Israel has many non jew citizens such as Russians, Israeli Arabs and Ityopians, so please get your facts straight, all of them get the same rights and an equal vote in election most of them got representation in our Knesset (our goverment for that matter) and are not abused in any way despite the fact that some of them are not our best citizens and are not jews in anyway (some of them are but I'm talking about the non jews).

It is ok as long as they are not Palestinian?

as a matter of fact because tommorow is our independence day statistics of the population have been released and out of 6.5 million citizens 1.8 of them are non jews adn get full rights.

And again Palastinians are not our citizens and never were and probobly never going to be.

Hitler took away the Jews citizenship as well. You learn well from your captors throughout your history.

Sorry...racist remarks will not be tolerated on neowin. may i suggest finding a better way to express yourself here in the forums please. Tone down the language. You have been warned

I wasn't saying that to show how "kind" we are, what I was trying to say is that it's just not our intention to kill people who have done nothing but to take out the people who use terrorisem as a lagit way of fighting.

One side's terrorism is another's freedom fighting.

Again NO, as someone who is a solider in Israel (though not a worrior) and who'm is brother is and has to be there, we don't just shoot in the air or anything of that type, don't forget it's a war zone mixed up with a city and no matter how hard we try people who done nothing die, but in no way we do it for the fun of it or get rid of some extra Palastinians (again ulike another group in the area called The Islamic Jihad...).

From what I've been seeing is that most of the killing of innocent people is being done by the Israelis. This is one reason why they didn't allow cameras in certian areas and not because it was too dangerous. These reporters know this and are perpared to take the risk to show the truth.

I don't know if you remmeber the case of that kid that was shown on the TV getting shot at at the hands of his father and then dying, well Israel was blaimed for that and for a long time we were always attacked for that, one year later it was turned out that the kid was shot by the Palastinian fire (French report) please don't tell me that the Palastinians did it because they felt like killing the kid. like accidents happen to them they happen to us as well.

One incident does't make a case for all.

I mean how the hell is that the same ?!

Look up the term apartheid and you will see why what you are doing is exactly the same.

we don't use Palastinans as slaves and we didnm't take their lands to expand our terretory or for money etc.

The best a Palestinian can hope for is to be a servant of an Israeli. and yes you do took their lands to expand your terrority. In fact you are doing it now. The number of illegal Israeli settlers in the occupid terrorities has drastically shot up in recent years.

Israel went into Palastinian terretory for a few reasons, one is after they tried to take ours we took theirs to protect ourselvs, second was that (this is about Gaza strip) Egypt didn't want it so we agreed to take it.

the Israelies who sit there (thought I don't like the idea that they sit there) are only to make sure it doesn't become another Lebanon case and simply that.

Israel number one concern is it's citizens and only then others just as any other country... sorry for being that way but thats not going to change... fact.

What difference is there between what Israel is doing now and what the former USSR did when it invaded and took much Eastern Europe for the same reason as a buffer zone? My father's parents were driven off of their land when the former USSR invaded the Ukraine just before the Little Holocaust.

You can justify it anyway you want, but it still doesn't make it any different. You're only deluding yourself if you believe that you have any real moral right to do this.

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ok and here we go again:

It is ok as long as they are not Palestinian?

NO, Palasitinans were never part of Israel, therefore Israel doesn't owe anything to them though we do give them power, money, weapons, food and more....

ohh us BAD Israelis...

Hitler took away the Jews citizenship as well. You learn well from your captors throughout your history. You got much of your current dogma from the Babylonians and your cruelity from the Nazis.

WE DIDN'T TAKE ANYONE'S CITIZENSHIP AWAY, AT ANYTIME

God are you reading something that is not written anywhere ?!

One side's terrorism is another's freedom fighting.

same reply as before... you just sayed it again...

From what I've been seeing is that most of the killing of innocent people is being done by the Israelis. This is one reason why they didn't allow cameras in certian areas and not because it was too dangerous. These reporters know this and are perpared to take the risk to show the truth.

hmm how about we go by weight now ?

I mean come on, for starters show me numbers in facts please.

also, I sayed it once and I'll say it again the Terrorists hide at the Palastinians houses, i'm sorry but there is no other way, other then killing ourselvs and thats not really an option... don't want to die, don't hide a terrorist...

One incident does't make a case for all.

same goes for the other side, only none of the other stories went on TV...

The best a Palestinian can hope for is to be a servant of an Israeli. and yes you do took their lands to expand your terrority. In fact you are doing it now. The number of illegal Israeli settlers in the occupid terrorities has drastically shot up in recent years.

I'm sure you know this. did you know theier acconomy is based on ours, we are the ones giving them jobs not not as slaves, they work as contraction workers, cooks and other jobs (used to work) now most of them are out of job..

as for your last reply, I didn't get your point... sorry explain it better and I'll reply...

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Originally posted by ooo

NO, Palasitinans were never part of Israel, therefore Israel doesn't owe anything to them though we do give them power, money, weapons, food and more....

ohh us BAD Israelis...

Oh how convenient. They only lived on that land for generations before the UN was lied to about the area being a land without a people. When did you give them these things, before or after you took their land?

WE DIDN'T TAKE ANYONE'S CITIZENSHIP AWAY, AT ANYTIME

God are you reading something that is not written anywhere ?!

You didn't even allow them to even get that far before you declared them non-persons.

same reply as before... you just sayed it again...

And I will keep on saying it since it is the truth.

hmm how about we go by weight now ?

I mean come on, for starters show me numbers in facts please.

also, I sayed it once and I'll say it again the Terrorists hide at the Palastinians houses, i'm sorry but there is no other way, other then killing ourselvs and thats not really an option... don't want to die, don't hide a terrorist...

They are only suspected of hiding in Palestinian homes, but that is all which is needed by the Israeli military when they toss a gernade into someone's home killing everyone just to make sure. You are still not getting it. To them you are the terrorist by your actions now. When I had seen the Israeli tanks going into the Palestinain refugee camps I instantly thought of the Warsaw Gettos. The Nazis had the same excuse as the Israelis are using now. They wanted to get rid of the resistence fighters (terrorists to them).

same goes for the other side, only none of the other stories went on TV...

There were far more stories sympathic to the Isreali side than the Palestianian side.

I'm sure you know this. did you know theier acconomy is based on ours, we are the ones giving them jobs not not as slaves, they work as contraction workers, cooks and other jobs (used to work) now most of them are out of job..

Jobs most of you don't really want. They may not be slaves, but they are in the traditional positions of slaves.

as for your last reply, I didn't get your point... sorry explain it better and I'll reply...

They were the victims of invaders claiming the right of self-defence as well.

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Round 30 ;) and then to sleep till tommorow :/

Oh how convenient. They only lived on that land for generations before the UN was lied to about the area being a land without a people. When did you give them these things, before or after you took their land?

The UN was not lied to and they knew they were here and thats why the UN voted for 2 countries not 1 !

You didn't even allow them to even get that far before you declared them non-persons.

No, we didn't, they were supposed to have their own country to be citizens in but instead they attacked us and pretty much lost that right, and we are offering it back. (I know you are going to reply something about the "we are offering it back" I just know it).

And I will keep on saying it since it is the truth.

maybe maybe not...

They are only suspected of hiding in Palestinian homes, but that is all which is needed by the Israeli military when they toss a gernade into someone's home killing everyone just to make sure. You are still not getting it. To them you are the terrorist by your actions now. When I had seen the Israeli tanks going into the Palestinain refugee camps I instantly thought of the Warsaw Gettos. The Nazis had the same excuse as the Israelis are using now. They wanted to get rid of the resistence fighters (terrorists to them).

ok two points here.

the one about the Natzis, HUH ?!?!

I mean god the jews were killed for being jews nothing else !

the jews didn't kill anyone, didn't backstab anyone, didn't do anything, it was an excuse for the Germens not to blaim themselvs !

the other point, Israel attacks only when it knows 100% for sure the terrorist is there, and in any case the will to kill is not there unlike the other side but it's the will to defends and the hate of being hated.

There were far more stories sympathic to the Isreali side than the Palestianian side.

Please name one that didn't turn out to be baised at the end for the other side, Israel is always pictured as the big brother who should understand and let them play on our expense ALWAYS.

Jobs most of you don't really want. They may not be slaves, but they are in the traditional positions of slaves.

ammm no... the reason why we don't go to thouse jobs which is also not totaly true is because most of the people here are educated and there for the advanced high tec etc. sorry for not putting someone who probobly didn't finish highschool and is not a citizen in someone's better job. I'm sure around the world they always put the worse guy for the job...

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Originally posted by ooo

Round 30 ;) and then to sleep till tommorow :/

The UN was not lied to and they knew they were here and thats why the UN voted for 2 countries not 1 !

Which you took over as soon as you could.

No, we didn't, they were supposed to have their own country to be citizens in but instead they attacked us and pretty much lost that right, and we are offering it back. (I know you are going to reply something about the "we are offering it back" I just know it).

I've heard of that so-called "offer" and it was a sham since the settlers would be allowed to continue on what they were doing now.

ok two points here.

the one about the Natzis, HUH ?!?!

I mean god the jews were killed for being jews nothing else !

the jews didn't kill anyone, didn't backstab anyone, didn't do anything, it was an excuse for the Germens not to blaim themselvs !

And from what Sharon is doing now the Palestinians are being killed for just being Palestians.

the other point, Israel attacks only when it knows 100% for sure the terrorist is there, and in any case the will to kill is not there unlike the other side but it's the will to defends and the hate of being hated.

That is a lie. You attack even if it is only someone you suspect of being responsible. You even say that they are suspects. Here in the West one is usually given a trial before they are convicted and executed.

Please name one that didn't turn out to be baised at the end for the other side, Israel is always pictured as the big brother who should understand and let them play on our expense ALWAYS.

Many of the stories make it look as if the Israelis are innocent victims in all of this.

ammm no... the reason why we don't go to thouse jobs which is also not totaly true is because most of the people here are educated and there for the advanced high tec etc. sorry for not putting someone who probobly didn't finish highschool and is not a citizen in someone's better job. I'm sure around the world they always put the worse guy for the job...

As if Palestinians could not better themselves as well, but that is not allowed under your system of apartheid. At least here everyone has the opportunity to better their lot in life without sacrificing all of their beliefs.

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sorry couldn't sleep just yet...

Which you took over as soon as you could

amm no Jordan, Egypt and some more took it first and later on we took it from them.

And from what Sharon is doing now the Palestinians are being killed for just being Palestians.

NO, what he's doing is pretty much the same as any county would do against whoever tries to destroy it.

That is a lie. You attack even if it is only someone you suspect of being responsible. You even say that they are suspects. Here in the West one is usually given a trial before they are convicted and executed.

and that knowledge is from where ? being here ? being in the Israeli army ?

As if Palestinians could not better themselves as well, but that is not allowed under your system of apartheid. At least here everyone has the opportunity to better their lot in life without sacrificing all of their beliefs.

yeah just like they have at the other great advanced countries they live in.... also look at your Hispanians they are ususaly less educated and all that and I dont see them working in an office at the US but at the most at some diner (with exeptionals and I'm sorry if anyone is offended by the example).

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Originally posted by ooo

also look at your Hispanians they are ususaly less educated and all that and I dont see them working in an office at the US but at the most at some diner (with exeptionals and I'm sorry if anyone is offended by the example).

it's probably time you went to sleep now cause that is a very uninformed statement. I would say racist but i'll cut you some slack since you don't live in america. while it is true that many hispanics don't live the same priviledged life that many white americans do, many hispanics have served in high local, city, state and federal government positions, even serving in presidential cabinets. Yes, some work in restaurants. Others are doctors, lawyers, or own their own highly successful businesses. to say all they do is manual labor, or to suggest such a thing is either highly uniformed or bigoted.

the situation between african-americans, hispanics and palestinians is completely different. Are there any palestinians who serve in the Knesset?

I'm sorry if i got my undies in a twist over this one, but you need to apologize for printing such nonsense. My brother's wife is hispanic and it's a good thing for you she doesn't read this thread, or else you would have gotten an earful worse than i gave you.

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have you read what I wrote at the end ?

(with exeptionals and I'm sorry if anyone is offended by the example).

no it's not totaly the sasme but you have to agree with me there is a problem with a large group of hispanis (BTW I lived in the US and I am a citizen - Lived in Florida, Texas, and NY but not important).

anyway the group of hispnians who do have a problem and no this is not because I'm racist or anything it's a know fact that can not be ignored that the US has a problem with a large group of Hipanians that are living in poverty and are not all of them finished high education, I'm sorry but the truth is that they don't get eccepted to jobs as fast as others do you can not ignore that.

as much as it's not nice to know that it's real.

as for the Palastinians it's the same thing only they are not citizens

as for having representation in the Knesset, well the Israeli Arabs which can be called Palastinians but the ones who didn't run away have representation and have full rights and freedom.

as for the rest because they are not citizens they do not have representation in the Knesset.

Dashel: thats a good question I've always asked myself, but the answer is in your countries not in Israel, ask people around why do they hate "us" why is it always that something happens to us (not that the jews have always had it bad or worse then others) just look around today in the last few weeks people are releasing hate on jews that have nothing to do with Israel, I'm sorry but this is a question I have no answer to...

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Originally posted by ooo

amm no Jordan, Egypt and some more took it first and later on we took it from them.

Same difference.

NO, what he's doing is pretty much the same as any county would do against whoever tries to destroy it.

That's the justification, but not the truth.

If Israel is such a great nation militarily then you wouldn't mind if the USA cuts off all aid, military and otherwise, since you really don't need it because of your greatness? How would you economy do without that $3 billion a year?

and that knowledge is from where ? being here ? being in the Israeli army ?

Yeah, the higher ups let all of you lower ranks in on everything they plan...

yeah just like they have at the other great advanced countries they live in.... also look at your Hispanians they are ususaly less educated and all that and I dont see them working in an office at the US but at the most at some diner (with exeptionals and I'm sorry if anyone is offended by the example).

Who said that I was an American? Your statement is racist and doesn't even compare. Yes, North America is not perfect, but in comparison it is paradise. No one is totally excluded just because of their beliefs or race. Everyone has the opportunity to better themselves. We don't have laws restricting them as you do.

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Random Thoughts For Consideration:

One was the widespread perception on the Israeli left that Sharon -- by assassinating Fatah leader Raed Karmi in Tulkarm last month -- had willfully sabotaged the three-week long cease-fire Yasser Arafat had managed to impose on the Palestinian militias.

"It convinced many Israelis that Sharon was afraid of tranquillity, and that he would block any attempt to move from the military conflict to a political process," says Arnon.

Did someone here say that Arafat was unable to maintain the Peace for 7 days?

The second was the "fresh and authentic" movement fired from the cease-fire's ashes: the public campaign of Israeli reserve officers refusing to serve in the occupied territories "for the purpose of dominating, expelling, starving and humiliating an entire people."

Starting out in late January with 52 officers, the reservists' ranks have swelled to 231, supported by 26 per cent of the Israeli public. This is unprecedented, says Arnon. "There has never been such popular support for a movement of refusing to serve in the army or what the right-wing would call treason."

Did someone here say that the Israeli Army isn't persecuting Palestinians just for being Palestinians?

According to a poll in Israel's Maariv newspaper on 15 February, 66 per cent of Israelis support the establishment of a "separation border" between Israel and the Palestinians, even one, like Ramon's, that would involve the removal of 60 to 70 Jewish settlements.

I would not call Sharon's actions a mandate from the common man in Israel considering this poll.

From the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs in 1999:

According to ICAHD, settlement expansion, land confiscation, and home demolition in the occupied territories have continued at virtually the same pace since 1967, regardless of which political party has been in power. The group points to statistics compiled by organizations like B?Tselem, Israel?s leading human rights group dealing with the West Bank and Gaza, and LAW, the Palestinian Society for the Protection of Human Rights and the Environment, which demonstrate that mainstream left and right differ little when it comes to policies in the occupied territories and its treatment of political prisoners.

For example, LAW reports that of 513 Palestinian homes demolished since the signing of the Oslo accords, 268 have been destroyed under Labor governments and 245 under Likud. And Barak?s September visit to the Israeli settlement of Ma?ale Adumim, one of several towns built in territories conquered in 1967 to extend the boundaries of ?Greater Jerusalem,? hasn?t helped either.

?My impression is that this government, like the previous one and Rabin?s government, is not ready for a real reconciliation,? Mordechay says. ?Maybe Barak won?t encourage the settlers to grab land like [former Defense Minister Ariel] Sharon and Netanyahu did, but he hasn?t said anything to the contrary.?hing to the contrary.?

Yet I swore someone said that Israel is not trying to expand her territory in these occupied areas. I found the reference to Sharon particularly revealing in lightIn fact, in many ways their lives during the Oslo peace negotiations have become worse. Israel is still in control of the lands, the West Bank and Gaza Strip - that it occupied during the war of 1967. Since 1967 and even during the Oslo negotiations, many Jewish settlements have been built on Palestinian land. As a result, the areas under Palestinian control in the West Bank and Gaza look like hundreds of "islands". The Palestinians live on these "islands", and Israeli settlers and soldiers, live in the areas surrounding them. The Palestinian National Authority [PNA] organises the schools, clinics, courts and prisons in the areas where most Palestinians live.

In the current unrest, the Israelis have closed off these "islands" of Palestinian territory, severely restricting the Palestinian's freedom of movement. This means Palestinians can't leave their own area to go to work or school or hospital in another area. Lots of people have lost their jobs because of this.

Another major problem is water: many Palestinians have limited access to safe clean water. This is because the Israeli settlers who live in the settlements can take the water from the Palestinians living on the "islands". Sometimes the settlers close a well so that they can draw off the water, which they then sell back to the Palestinians. back to the Palestinians.

Yes . . . an interesting approach to the peace process.

Sources:

http://web1.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2002/574/re1.htm

http://www.washington-report.org/backissue...99/9912009.html

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/eyetoeye...e/oslo_acc.html

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Same difference.

how can it be when Joprdan and Egypt killed way more and treated them worse the what you think we do.

That's the justification, but not the truth.

If Israel is such a great nation militarily then you wouldn't mind if the USA cuts off all aid, military and otherwise, since you really don't need it because of your greatness? How would you economy do without that $3 billion a year?

My country would have made more then that if the Palastinian problem would have been delt with as 70% of the total money goes to the army and no tourisem because of terrorisem.

also US wouldn't cut off the money because we make some nice weapons for them such as the Chetz which is a misslie against missiles and the Merkava and the list goes on...

Yeah, the higher ups let all of you lower ranks in on everything they plan...

how would you figure I'm a lower rank, and if I am doesn't mean no one knows anything, plus its the people alone who decide what to do in action not the high chain of command.

Who said that I was an American? Your statement is racist and doesn't even compare. Yes, North America is not perfect, but in comparison it is paradise. No one is totally excluded just because of their beliefs or race. Everyone has the opportunity to better themselves. We don't have laws restricting them as you do.

but in comparison it is paradise- have you been here to say that, you have no clue about life here...

We don't have laws restricting them as you do. - same here, they do not apply to our laws as they are not part of Israel...

as for racist... I've replied to that in the last comment

oh and btw what most of you have saied about jews and Israelis and arabs is not racists, sorry it's just hard for you folks to look at yourselvs....

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One was the widespread perception on the Israeli left that Sharon -- by assassinating Fatah leader Raed Karmi in Tulkarm last month -- had willfully sabotaged the three-week long cease-fire Yasser Arafat had managed to impose on the Palestinian militias.

"It convinced many Israelis that Sharon was afraid of tranquillity, and that he would block any attempt to move from the military conflict to a political process," says Arnon.

sorry but baised or better saied speculation...

The second was the "fresh and authentic" movement fired from the cease-fire's ashes: the public campaign of Israeli reserve officers refusing to serve in the occupied territories "for the purpose of dominating, expelling, starving and humiliating an entire people."

Starting out in late January with 52 officers, the reservists' ranks have swelled to 231, supported by 26 per cent of the Israeli public. This is unprecedented, says Arnon. "There has never been such popular support for a movement of refusing to serve in the army or what the right-wing would call treason."

a very extreme small group of people I have nothing to say about them and it's not 26% btw but thats something I was unable to backup but know as a fact....

as for the rest, it's from 1999, before the Intifada, things have totaly changed here, from atotaly left country it moved to the right wing of the political world.

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as for the rest, it's from 1999, before the Intifada, things have totaly changed here, from atotaly left country it moved to the right wing of the political world.

Only the statement from the Washington Report was from 1999. But it isn't about the present, it's about the continual creation of Jewish settlements in contested areas for 30 years, irrespective of what type of government was in power. I would call these activities highly provocative . . . wouldn't you?

I mean on one hand you're claiming that Israel is continually extending the olive branch of peace, and on the other we have the continued expansion in the contested areas . . . how do you reconcile this contradiction in policy vs. practice?

The last quote from Save the Children is current and refers to the situation in the present. Your military actions are creating a situation that is untenable for the population in the Palestinian areas. This must be frustrating for those people, basic Sociology 101 . . . frustration leads to aggression.

-TR

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I swore i wouldn't get into this inane conversation and hear i am right in the middle of it again, but i'm out after this. it isn't worth my time. just this one last post...

sorry ooo, but your true motivation has shown through during your last few posts. you are a racist...it might be hard for you to look at yourself, but you are a racist. just cause you said that you were sorry if you offended anyone, doesn't justify your comments.

you see, there are plenty of white people who live in poverty in america as well as hispanics, african americans, chinese, puerto ricans, jews. poverty is no distinguisher of color, creed or ethnicity. Yes, hispanics have it tough in some areas of the country. But america is learning to accept its diversity and to realize that there is strength in that diversity. Is it perfect? No, but we are working towards it and we get stronger everyday through our diversity. But for you to say, or to imply that these opportunities don't exist for non-white americans is just utter nonsense. It might have been true once, but those old school rules are being swept away.

I thought your hatred was do simply because of the actions of some of the palestinian terrorists. But i see that hate has corrupted your soul. For you, there is no middle ground. It's "my country right or wrong" and that's a dangerous thing.

I've read every post in this thread, and the one thing that i've learned about it is that every single pro-israeli thinks that their loss, their sacrifice is superior to the loss on the opposing side. You all give lip service saying that you grieve the innocent losses on the other side, but you then make comments where it's obvious you don't. And you accuse those who oppose you, or who are speaking of moderation and mediation as being brainwashed by a pro-palestinian media.

I can't speak for those in other countries, but the media in the United States has been almost completely pro-israeli. It's been that way for years. Hell, we've been probably your biggest ally on the international stage. We've watched the horror that you've gone through. We have sympathy for you, but that sympathy is running dry because your argument has holes in it, and those holes are becoming obvious. The truth of the matter is that the story is not as one sided as we've been led to believe. Israel realizes that and is angry about it. Israel feels comfortable in the role of martyr.

For those living with the israeli-palestinian conflict on a daily basis, both israeli and palestinian, i hope that you can resolve your differences peacefully. That both sides will realize they are to blame, and both sides will stop the hate.

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Both leaders of Israel and Palestine are retarded!! Only the average people are suffering.

No doubt, Palestine should have their own state. Suicide dumber isn't way to get things done for their own people. Jewish settlement in West Bank is also dumb. What I can say, both Israelis and Palestinian have done some many dumb things over the last 60 years. Other parts of the world have moved ahead like there isn't tomorrow, Middle East is becoming the sh_t hole on the earth.

US and the West get the blame for their stupidity.

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ok you obviously misread my post, English is like my thired language and therefore I do not express myslef very good with it. anyways, first and for most I've saied that there is an exception, yes poverty is known to be in every sector everywhere the point is thought that there is a known problem in the case of that sector in the US, you can't deny it, I can bring people who live there today to say the same.

what I was saying was an example and like in life nothing is 100% and enough for them to be 10% of people who do liv under the poverty line it is a problem and we all know it, yes there are succesful people that are included in "problematic" groups (make sure you see the " " ) but I'm talking about the part that does have problems just like in any other group of people everywhere.

I didn't mean to say they are better or worse or anything but fact is fact that the Hispanians didn't get the same chanses another had from the start and they will say the same, it's probobly less today but still is.

in anyway it was not supposed to sound racial, and in now way am I racial or do I hate so kind of group, especialy Hispanics as I never had any real life contact with them like you never had contact with me.

So please do not think for one second that it was a racial remark, it was only to explane a situation of people who do not get the same chances as others.

no the Palastinans do not get the same chances as an Isralian and please don't tell me that a Hispanics living in the gettho's is getting the same chances as others. no I'ts not against Hispanics it's actually me sying that they are not being treated right... hmm where is that racial ?

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When I was about 19 years old, I lived in my car. I delivered pizzas for a living and didn't have a pot to **** in. That was 20 years ago.

Now, I own my home . . . well the bank owns it, but it's mine. I have a steady job, with a livable wage. I have a college education.

No one gave me any advantage anywhere in the last 20 years. I educated myself with student loans that are available to anyone. I worked parttime as a delivery driver for barely over minimum wage during college. On my loan applications, it never asked if I was white, black, yellow or pea green.

The assertion that there is somehow a disparity that is perpetuated on the minority classes in the United States is a myth. If anything, the opposite is true. There are any number of organizations seeking to elevate the protected classes to more productive and lucrative endeavors. The only thing required is a sincere desire to become something more than what you are. To work hard and be honest.

The State in which I live, limits the amount any school can spend per student and then offers support for the poor districts to bring them up to and often on par with the wealthier school districts.

One principal problem in not only the hispanic, but also the asian communities is a staunch refusal to learn english. This cripples them in ways that no other obstical does. How can you communicate effectivly in business, education and in fact day to day life when you are unable to speak the language of the land in which you live?

Racism exists in America . . . of that there is no doubt. But it is not perpetrated by the government and in fact has been literally declared to be illegal. Our country is some 270 million people and we are bound to suffer the extremes of the human condition. But I think that we are the first to admit it when racism rears it's ugly head in America.

Many of Israel's Western friends are disturbed by what we see as a government that basically condones racism and in practice, seems to promote it in the name of National Defense.

The refusal to allow the press into certain areas of the West Bank is seen as "hiding something." It makes us wonder what it is that you don't want us to see . . .

-TR

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Thread re-opened on request (for the second time) Please keep your views on racial points to yourselves. not here where it is unacceptable. Thanks.

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