YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I have to disagree with you killa-b, You say that people on both sides are taught to hate the other ----- Even so they still "hate" each other, it's only going to change with education of the youth, but even this generatino is being brought up to hate the other side. ----- That is not the case. Israel is a democratic country, you or anyone else is welcomed to come to our schools and check for yourself... Not the books nor our teachers ever teach us to Hate, that is wrong, they teach us to want peace... We all want peace, we are tired from this endless war. However, if you will visit the otherside, you will be surprised that the children are being taught, in school, by the books and teachers to simply hate Jewish/Israeli people... They tell them that Israel should be destroyed... To those who said Israel is a 3rd world country, where from do you take your infromation? I'd like to see that source. Israel is a western country, we have a very large High-tech industry here... You might want to do a little research and you will be surprised. ---- anywho, i just wish everyone could get along, and find a way to resolve these things, its only land ---- True... I wish that as well. I'm not religious what-so-ever and to be frank, I'm tired of this... I truely am. ---- we in America and Canada manage to do it, along with many other countries, whats the big problem? ---- Not to dis-respect you, but you really can't compare the situation in the Middle East to... Pretty much any other situation in the whole world. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onsi Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 blaming someone for all what is happening wont do!!! but I dont like innocent people getting killed from both side...:dead: if it's a war....soldier to soldier it's OK but it's not....that is the shame of it.:rambo: we need world peace....it's good for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariusu Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 the fanatism of the islamic religions encountered in many palces and countries in the arabic world is the cause of the war in my opinion. some people really don't get it and think that blowing themselves up will help them to reach their aims. back up this terorist attacks with some islamic fanatism, mix them and you have war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I, for one, am not blaming the otherside... Both sides are to be blamed. It's a diffecult situation and I think a solution won't come any time soon... :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 10, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2002 Sharone (Isreal's leader) said yesterday: "We will do what it takes to protect the Jewish state of Israel" sorry if I mis-spelt his name, this is by memory The point I want to make is, other regimes have also made such comments which got them appearing before a War Crimes tribunial. Israels army is now hunting down and "interrogating" suspected terrorists and suicide bomber groups. I have to ask myself why a 16 year old girl would want to do what she did. Israels occupation of the Palestein state (which is not even recognised officialy) is effectively a crime in itself. While terrorist acts can NEVER be regarded as the right course of action for any civilised society, just look at the Army that Israel has against Palesteinian non existant Army. I dont live there so I can only go on whats on the news. The bigger picture is that Jews themselves have escaped persecution in the past and now it seems they are saying they are right to do "whatever it takes" to protect Isreals interests. It does NOT add up. 2 wrongs do not make a right, especially on the scale they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariusu Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by Neobond While terrorist acts can NEVER be regarded as the right course of action for any civilised society, just look at the Army that Israel has against Palesteinian non existant Army. you're right neobond, palestinians don't have an army, but they have brainless fanatics ready to blow themselves up every time with no conditions. what do you think israel's soldiers are fighting against in the "refugee camps"? who are the people shooting from the inside? it's not a palestinian army, but there are plenty of teroorists like hamas and hesbollah which missuse a pecefull cause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet_irl Veteran Posted April 10, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 10, 2002 im not posting cos the subject is too intense :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Neobond, "Sharon". ;) Anyhow, I would also like to clarify one more thing that is Very disturbing... And the media is misusing it...(Which causes a lot of countries in the world turn against us...) There have been descriptions that the IDF(Israel Defense Forces) is commiting a massecure(sp?) in the refugee camps, I would like somone to explain to me how can it be a massecure? If we want to starting killing Palestinians all over the place, don't you think we'd simply send a few of our F-16's with bombs whipe the whole area? Why send soliders? I'll tell you why... We send soldiers so we could target more percisly(sp?), we DON'T want to kill civilians but like in any war, civilians die(i.e.: The U.S. actions in Afganistan... You cannot ignore the many dead innocent civilians there). In the last two or three days(not sure) we had 23 dead soldiers, deaths that could have been easily escaped if we were to use our fighter jets, but we didn't use them because in that area there were civilians, we DON'T want to kill those so we sent soldiers... How can anyone truely say we commit such acts. That is utter bull****. Sorry for the foul language. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I think the palestines are more to blame then the israelis... You have to remove the terrorist leader Arafat if it should be any chance of any cease fire... He have been in and have never said anything bad about terrorist organisations, so I think he supports the suicide bombings... But I also think the israelies are going to though forward for the moment, but I don't think you should accuse or blame them so hard because their are using their right ro retaliate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince2k Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 i'm from israel and we r not 3rd country like you all say if u didnot know many medical/computer "things" was developed in you 3rd country (israel) and if all the palastinian people will stop send terorist to israel land and pay money to the famalys of the terorist (25,000$ for famaly thet one of the member of the famaly blow him self on israel land) then the war will STOP ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Prince2k, hi... Why aren't you listening in English lesson?? Kidding. :) Well, he Did have a good point, the families of the dead terrorists(those who blow themselfs up, not the "regular" ones who use guns) are getting paid $25,000 each by many orginazations(including Iraq). This causes people to go do such acts so their family will have money... That does not help the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onsi Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 killing people was never that easy...you said you had 23 soldiers got killed....they are soldiers for god sake, not civilians...not a million civilian. since 1948 this is happening....it's more that 50 years of killing... I dont blame israili people in person...it's a government way...it became a tradition.... please take it from me...I dont hate any one...but not all thinks like I do...I do have many israili friends...and 2 of them got killed, but you know what...I lost all my palestinan friends.. what is happening is too much for all to take... :( :( :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Onsi, those soldiers died instead of Palestinian civilians... In a way, we protect them, if it weren't for those soldiers(and many more) do you have any idea how many more dead people there would be there? It would be unimaginable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 10, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by nant Prince2k, hi... Why aren't you listening in English lesson?? Kidding. :) Well, he Did have a good point, the families of the dead terrorists(those who blow themselfs up, not the "regular" ones who use guns) are getting paid $25,000 each by many orginazations(including Iraq). This causes people to go do such acts so their family will have money... That does not help the situation. I dont believe this.. but I could be wrong Nant said that this is a war. it cant be a war unless you have 2 armies fighting each other. Ever since the Americans got bombed its ok to "wage war" on invisable terrorist groups who most obviously hide amongst civilians so civilians houses get flattened and civilians get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onsi Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 nant , I made my point and I know you and all good men around here got it too Enough killing, why do we have to get people killed...soldiers or civilians Israili or Palestenians. me & you ..... all of us can make a better world.....PEACE is what we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icie Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I disagree with the sentiment that "If they are soldiers, then its ok to kill each other." Soldiers have emotions too. They are humans. They have their own friends, family and dreams too. They are only there because of what they are instructed to do, by leaders, politics, religion, fanaticism, etc. They are probably pawns in the hands of the powerful. Of course, some are crazy and commit unspeakable brutalities, but most of them are innocents who HAD to fight each other. There were incidents in WWII, when during Christmas, both the German and British sides stopped fighting for a day and had soccer matches in goodwill, and then have to resume killing each other the next day. Soldiers are just as human as the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 ---- I dont believe this.. but I could be wrong ---- Hrm, that's from an official U.S. source. I could be wrong. edit: Saddam himself said so not too long ago in a speech to his nation. Try to disproof this. :) ---- nant said that this is a war. it cant be a war unless you have 2 armies fighting each other. ---- This is a war against terror, not Palestinians... Unlike the U.S. we know where the terrorists are... We are not fighting against an invisible opponent. They do hide among civilians, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 10, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by icie There were incidents in WWII, when during Christmas, both the German and British sides stopped fighting for a day and had soccer matches in goodwill, and then have to resume killing each other the next day. Soldiers are just as human as the rest of us. yeah... paul mccartney based a video on it "Pipes of Peace" Thnx CheekyMonkey for reminding me and to icie for reminding me what a kinky lot us Euros are :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 It seems that everything that the Israelis do only makes things there worse. You can tell that Sharon is a military man from his military response. Everything the Israelis do will only make things worse if they continue to use these Nazi tactics of theirs. The only way to resolve this, short of the Israelis leaving all of the occupied territories, is genocide. Both sides are to blame here, but Israel should know better than to use these methods concidering their own history and how much evil can result from this sort of thing. The more they use a military solution in this manner the less they have of any moral justification. What they are doing is not self-defence. The longer they continue in this the more it becomes murder since they don't really care who they kill as long as they are Palestinians. This is one reason why they are trying to keep the press out. Sure it is a dangerous area, but the majority of the danger is from the Israelis themselves. Sure, they are claiming that this is on terrorists, but to these types it seems there is no difference between an unarmed family in a car and a gunman on a rooftop. From passed evidence it also seems that to be guilty of terrorism to the Isrealis one only has to be suspected of such and thus the Israelis feel justified in killing them, and anyone else who gets in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pctuk Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I think neither side are helping the matter. Both sides seem to have elected extremist leaders and so unfortunately the whole world thinks all Israelis and Palestinians are like the people we see on the TV. I am sure this is not the case. I disagree with whoever said that all wars are political and not relgious. I think he will find that this is 100% religious - what sparked off the recent violence? One of the leaders visiting a religious monument. I think it is about time we realised that all religions are divisive forces and should be shunned upon. Religion is one of the few things that would drive people to suicide bombings, one of the few things that would lead to a nation being so unwilling to compromise over land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icie Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 *sigh* The israelis should have left Barak in power...he was one the the most peaceful leaders israel had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazoo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by mariusu you're right neobond, palestinians don't have an army, but they have brainless fanatics ready to blow themselves up every time with no conditions. what do you think israel's soldiers are fighting against in the "refugee camps"? who are the people shooting from the inside? it's not a palestinian army, but there are plenty of teroorists like hamas and hesbollah which missuse a pecefull cause! Mariusu what do you know about Islam? Just as I thought nothing. You called the sucide bomber's brainless fanatics. Well you couldn't be so wrong. All the bombers have been well educated and sound mind people resorting to the only thing they have left. What is palestine to use to fight back at USA backed millatry machine. Terrorist is a person who uses terror as a tactic to make a point. In this respect USA and Israel are bigger terrorist's than palestine. Mariusu you know nothing of the history in this region. War will never end its the Human way, always wanting more. Arafat is being blamed for the bombings Sharon for the incursions. The israelis said since the incursion's no bombing had taken place and they were quiet proud that their illegal war was working. Well have you heard another bombing happend today. The incursions did not work, how about Israelis leave the palestinians alone, including checkpoints and road blocks. Its a novel idea I know but what the heck give it a go. Sharon knew he made a mistake thats why he ignored the request to stop the incursions. Imagine the backlash the youths of palestine would have bestowed on to Israel if Sharon had moved out sooner. All of this is pretty petty when you think about it, we can all but pray for a peaceful world. Some of the most beutiful countries in the world are plagued by war. Its purely a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 WOW. Yazoo, do you know why there was a bombing today?? Because we left two cities. Do you know where from it came?! FROM THOSE TWO CITIES. If we would not have check points and road blocks, do you have any idea how many people would die? Policemen and soldiers die in those road blocks and check points to save life!! About these two things, you are truely clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icie Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 yay...flame war. As I always thought it would become when I first saw this topic... kachink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtseJam Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I tried keeping this as a discussion but Yazzo's last post totaly ****ed me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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