NOS482 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ooo Israel wouldn't have come in the Palastine lands in the first place if they havn't attacked us. they can't attack us and kill us and expect not to be punnished by it. If you have watched the latest new the Islamic Party Jihad just announced that if US- Israel want peace we should go back to russia and othe euro countries we came from... yeah some peace they want, If you think Arafat is any better then you are wrong. we handed them peace in almost every term we could give they didn't want it instead they tried to get some more with using power and the lowest kind of power.. killing kids... don't expect Israel to shut up anymore, it has come to the point that we have at least one dead every day. We are a free country and just like as the US didn't shutup about the september 11th, Israel shouldn't shut up for 50 years of terrorism and 50 more before Israel was declared. As for the lands. I do agree most of the places should go back to the arabs but not this way. they should sit at a table and talk and they should remmeber that we live here as well and they should also respect our teretory and needs. Now as much as I like the US and all that (and this goes to other countries as wll) what about the lands that don't belong to you.. hmmm going back part of US belongs to Mexico and well Indians.... but thats in the past, but you see US just didn't have the limits we have when it comes to having to do what other countries tell us... and again this is not to slam US or something just a point to think of, I mean really other then giving back Gaza Strip Yehuda and Shomron Israel doesn't owe anything to them and we have offerd both and more to them, they just want everything... as for the 4 to 1 odds about killings most of them are not innocent but people who are part of Terror organizations.. We do Not Kill People For The Heck Of It! An eye for an eye will only leave the world blind. Yes, the Isreali army does kill for the fun of it as was recently shown when they killed a Palestinian woman, in her car as she and her husband were headed down a couple of blocks to see the husband's father, while she was holding her baby and then they laught afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by jesterzwild Very true. I find it ironic that the US can be so hypocritical sometimes about other countries taking over others, or one group wipping out another. The US, along with England, are two of the biggest offenders when it comes to this. I am proud to be a US citizen, but I am ashamed of some of the things this country has done in the past, especially to the natives of America (I won't call them Indians as that in itself is an insult to them). As a person of Irish and Scottish descent, I am also aware of how the American natives may have felt (I can never claim empathy, only awareness and sympathy) during the British invasions and occupations. As a US citizen again I also know what it feels like to want revenge for an act of terrorism, to want to retaliate against the aggressors. In the end this is not a one sided issue, and on both sides innocent people are dying. We live in a time of great technology and innovations, and yet we are still fighting centuries old wars and battles. As much as we may try to hide or ignore it, the nature of man is defense and aggression, just as it is in the nature of many of our animal counterparts. There is a big difference. Here in North America those who were directly responsible are long dead and there is really very little which can be done, but this isn't the case with Israel since most of those repsonsible are still around. The Israelis have always neen irrational when it comes to this land which they believe is their Promised Land by their god. There is even an Israeli group which is trying to claim that they've ALWAYS been there. That there were no Canaanites there. They are so fanatical that they are even willing to say that their entire history is a lie. All of this nonsense over a sandpit. From what I've seen much of what has been happening to the Jews over the centuries has been of their own doing, but what do I know I'm only a gentile (One without god, a non-person, a goy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devin2002 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by Prince2k Why yoo defend Palastin ? When NewYork was atacked the palastin was celebreting and you defend them and telling me the Israel is wrong when we defending avry day our civilion from the terror the Palastin,Irag invite avry palastin civilion to blow him self on the Israel land and when arafat say thet he will be Shahid (man hwo cuicide and blow him self) you defending them and saying thet the jews are bad people ? Why we bad ? what we did ? Did we blowing our self avry day to damage you country or we sendind people to kill you children ? I dnot know why you think thet palastin "good" maybe yo just love to see people die avry day becose of palastin ! Because all life is good you goof! I'm Irish and I'm 2nd generation american, should I hate all the English becuase the rest of my other family does. NO! My mom and dad at least brought me up to ignore that crap. As for people crying 6 million of us died in WWII, you should let that be a reminder of evil yet you have no feel of guilt when little children lay over there dead mothers body, or when a father is carying his dead wife and child. Why becuase of morons that think they are owed something! Both of your sides are wrong the key word there is BOTH! just like the irish and the british. +Time to lock this thread me thinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 in my opinion, the present situation was caused by the right-wing extremist government of israel. sharon doesn't care about human rights or (in this case) about palestinian rights. don't forget that they killed the former prime-minister, isaac rabin, because he recognized that palestinians also have the right to have a country. he wanted the oslo treaty to be followed. both israeli and palestinians have the right to be free and independent. of course, there are also extremists in the palestinian side. and the civilized and democratic world must not tolerate them. both governments must agree in fighting the extremists of both sides. they are the real threat! they don't want peace! the democratic people want peace. if the israeli can't (or don't want to) fight extremists, it won't be arafat with less resources and enprisoned who will be able to arrest them. note: we must not forget one issue: nowadays, palestinians ARE, in fact, already victims of discrimination by israeli society. not only in what concerns money but also in their freedom (of speech, of mobilization... well, in all basic civil human rights). as long as this situation persists, there will be no peace in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Ok I must say first that this may sound so bad, and I might get people here very angrey. As much as I am for peace, Us and other countries have been telling us that peace is the only way to finish this. Ok here goes... amm US didn't seem to have any peace talks with Osama Bin laden... why do we have to. (ok yeah US is the strongest country in the world, still doesn't mean we have to as well). again peace is good but they made it clear they are not upto it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ian in my opinion, the present situation was caused by the right-wing extremist government of israel. sharon doesn't care about human rights or (in this case) about palestinian rights. don't forget that they killed the former prime-minister, isaac rabin, because he recognized that palestinians also have the right to have a country. he wanted the oslo treaty to be followed. both israeli and palestinians have the right to be free and independent. of course, there are also extremists in the palestinian side. and the civilized and democratic world must not tolerate them. both governments must agree in fighting the extremists of both sides. they are the real threat! they don't want peace! the democratic people want peace. if the israeli can't (or don't want to) fight extremists, it won't be arafat with less resources and enprisoned who will be able to arrest them. Sharon didn't kill Itzchak Rabin, God where did you hear that from ?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by devin2002 +Time to lock this thread me thinks! I am beginning to believe that as well. People are being insulted as this thread degenerates into a flame war. I just wanted to discuss this topic in a civilized manner, but it seems that controversial topics such as this will ultimately create bitter differences between people. :( I just hope that there is no lasting bitterness between people because of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazoo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Come on guys lets lead the way forward stay friends, the internet is truely a global thing, the closest we have to a 1 world situation. Lets not let the crap on the streets spill into our world. I vote for this post to be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ooo Originally posted by ian in my opinion, the present situation was caused by the right-wing extremist government of israel. sharon doesn't care about human rights or (in this case) about palestinian rights. don't forget that they killed the former prime-minister, isaac rabin, because he recognized that palestinians also have the right to have a country. he wanted the oslo treaty to be followed. both israeli and palestinians have the right to be free and independent. of course, there are also extremists in the palestinian side. and the civilized and democratic world must not tolerate them. both governments must agree in fighting the extremists of both sides. they are the real threat! they don't want peace! the democratic people want peace. if the israeli can't (or don't want to) fight extremists, it won't be arafat with less resources and enprisoned who will be able to arrest them. Sharon didn't kill Itzchak Rabin, God where did you hear that from ?!?! what i meant is that who killed isaac rabin shares sharon's ideas! i think this is obvious....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince2k Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 How can you all say thet Palastin is good ? Maby i dont know the mining of tthe word GOOD properly becose when i see thet Palastin sending avryday people to blow them self and when i see palastin trainig children to kill jews and when i see thet palastin paying 25.000$ to the femalys thet one of the members blow him self in Israel and when i see when the tragedy heppens in NewYork and palastin people was celebreyting and dencing o the flag of america and israel so thet mean thet the (palastin) are good side and Israel thet avry day defending her self from Palastin is the bad side is so i'm blinde and dnot see what hepening outside my window ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 10, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2002 the internet is truely a global thing, the closest we have to a 1 world situation. which is why I would rather leave this thread open so we can debate this like adults. Sure this admin can protect you and censor the thread, close it - oppress your opinion. I for one would rather be educated which is what I have seen here. Whoever said debate never got "heated" or exchanged conflicting opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ooo Ok I must say first that this may sound so bad, and I might get people here very angrey. As much as I am for peace, Us and other countries have been telling us that peace is the only way to finish this. Ok here goes... amm US didn't seem to have any peace talks with Osama Bin laden... why do we have to. (ok yeah US is the strongest country in the world, still doesn't mean we have to as well). again peace is good but they made it clear they are not upto it... True. However, where the US is trying to shut down a terrorist group and give justice to those who have been affected by 9-11, Israel is trying to fight a war with a terrorist group that is right next to them. Although Israel is righteous in defending themselves from terrorist attacks, their enemy is next door and tactics similar to WWI and WWII are either being used or are going to be used unless something is done. The fighting in Israel would not only endanger innocent civilians, but endanger the holy land and the buildings that are there. At all costs, a war that involves this area should be prevented since this would lead to the possibility of the destruction of some of the buildings in Bethlehem due to combat or a missed bombing raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazoo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by Neobond which is why I would rather leave this thread open so we can debate this like adults. Sure this admin can protect you and censor the thread, close it - oppress your opinion. I for one would rather be educated which is what I have seen here. Whoever said debate never got "heated" or exchanged conflicting opinions? Ok put like that my friend I change my statement and agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheer Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 I think both sides are as bad as each other, in a situation which draws many comparisons to the situation in Northern Ireland. You would think that after the large number of years that both these conflicts have been going on that the parties involved would realise that violence solves nothing. So the cycle of violence is perpetuated from generation to generation (one of the most disgusting things I've seen on TV in recent years were people shouting abuse at schoolchildren of a different religion as they walked through an estate populated by people of another religion on their way to school). It's up to one side to make concessions here and they're both so damn pig-headed that neither of them will. So much of it is in the name of religion... Personally I don't give a flying f*** about religion, and find it hard to comprehend that someone can become so brainwashed that they'll strap a pound of semtex to themselves and detonate it. We're headed for a major conflict in the Middle East which, if we're not careful, will drag Europe and the US headfirst into it. It doesn't help when that idiot GDubbya is banging the war drums back in Washington, talking of 7 rogue states (who advises this idiot or does he come up with these bright ideas all on his own) and courting Blair's support on a war with Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 ok that is the thing that ****es me off the most. A BUILDING IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THEN ANY PERSON no religion stats that. I find it sick that people believe that a building is more important then life. I wonder if you would give your life to save some building... no I'm not upto destroying a building. I think the buildings ar eimportant and are a big historical thing but never important then anyones life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by Neobond which is why I would rather leave this thread open so we can debate this like adults. Sure this admin can protect you and censor the thread, close it - oppress your opinion. I for one would rather be educated which is what I have seen here. Whoever said debate never got "heated" or exchanged conflicting opinions? I know what you mean. I recently got banned from a discussion board because of this issue and I wasn't being irrational either. They were afraid of offending the Jews on the board. That ANYONE who says anything against the policies of Israel is automatically labelled a bigot, a racists, or an anti-semite. It seems that many will excuse the Israelis whatever they do just because of their history of being persecuted as Jews. I keep saying that the Israelis should know better than to use these tactics because of the evil which can and is resulting. There MUST be some Israelis which realize just how naive Sharon in being if he believes that this action will deter the Palestinians at all. If anything it will give the Palestinians more cause to send in more suicide bombers. The only way to stop them short of the Israelis leaving all of the occupied territories is to kill all of the Palestinians to the last man, woman, and child. To commit genocide, otherwise they are doing nothing at all, but turning the world against them and showing them for the hypocrits they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortensen Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Prince2k, you are obviously biased because you are from Israel but it isn't hard to see why the people here often favour the Palestinians... they send in a suicide bomber who kills a few Israeli people, or even only injures people, and then Israel moves in helicopter gunships and tanks in and takes over the town and bulldozer houses and burying people alive (ShortNews news item). A bit unfair. This and Israel taking out Palestinians from ambulances, stripping them naked and using them as human shields, really angers me. For these reasons I HATE Israel and I TOTALLY support the Palestinians... I'm not saying bombing people is the right way to go about anything but when they are up against the EVIL acts of Israel I think it's only FAIR! This is my opinion and I am happy to stick with it.... I think it was totally wrong for the country Israel to be made and I think the support from America is CRIMINAL because America is supporting them. Just out of interest, what's the difference between an 'Israeli' and an 'Israelite'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pctuk Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Congrats Neobond, I think censorship should be the very last measure. Thankyou, you liberal Dutchman :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ooo ok that is the thing that ****es me off the most. A BUILDING IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THEN ANY PERSON no religion stats that. I find it sick that people believe that a building is more important then life. I wonder if you would give your life to save some building... no I'm not upto destroying a building. I think the buildings ar eimportant and are a big historical thing but never important then anyones life. I am not implying that a building is more important that human life. I am saying that the birthplace of three religions should not be destroyed because of war. If some type of peace agreement is ever reached, then innocent human lives would be spared. If this keep on going, there will be no more Israel, no more Gaza Strip, or no more nothing in that area because everyone would blow themselves up and everything would be obliterated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazoo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ooo ok that is the thing that ****es me off the most. A BUILDING IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THEN ANY PERSON no religion stats that. I find it sick that people believe that a building is more important then life. I wonder if you would give your life to save some building... no I'm not upto destroying a building. I think the buildings ar eimportant and are a big historical thing but never important then anyones life. So you don't mind if I come round and bulldoze your house but make sure your not in it whilst I do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by ooo ok that is the thing that ****es me off the most. A BUILDING IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THEN ANY PERSON no religion stats that. I find it sick that people believe that a building is more important then life. And no amount of land is more important than any life either, but these fools are murdering each other over what only amounts to a pile of sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Pointless violence, that?s what it is. Both sides are to blame and the U.S needs to decide whether or not it's going to be involved...I'm sick of us saying one thing and doing another. This is a very dangerous game that will only bring more anger upon the U.S. We cannot go back and change history...We have to do the best with what we've got. Neither side here has shown a genuine desire to resolve this conflict. Get rid of both Arafat and Sharon and put in some leaders that can move beyond the past and into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 hmm my home is no hiding place for terrorists but I would never give my life for my house.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince2k Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by mortensen Prince2k, you are obviously biased because you are from Israel but it isn't hard to see why the people here often favour the Palestinians... they send in a suicide bomber who kills a few Israeli people, or even only injures people, and then Israel moves in helicopter gunships and tanks in and takes over the town and bulldozer houses and burying people alive (ShortNews news item). A bit unfair. This and Israel taking out Palestinians from ambulances, stripping them naked and using them as human shields, really angers me. For these reasons I HATE Israel and I TOTALLY support the Palestinians... I'm not saying bombing people is the right way to go about anything but when they are up against the EVIL acts of Israel I think it's only FAIR! This is my opinion and I am happy to stick with it.... I think it was totally wrong for the country Israel to be made and I think the support from America is CRIMINAL because America is supporting them. Just out of interest, what's the difference between an 'Israeli' and an 'Israelite'? Yeah man ? Watch this see what palastin doo avry day you dnot see thet on TV on TV they are the good boys but when the CNN is gone they shooting avry one ! Just see thet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 well Israel was more then willing to give back the land but they wanted all of it, how you ask, by klling us so we are fighting for our lives and not only our land. as for placing Arafat and Sharon. What the hell are you talking about ?! Israel is democracy, Sharon was voted - I didn't vote for him and I don't like him. but who are you and who am I to say that he should be replaced. I don't like Bush and I didn't vote for him yet I don't think he should be changed becaause he was voted and won. Arafat is another story. also 5 Israeli leaders tried to make peace with Arafat none have made it because he was unwilling to get to the middle he wanted it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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