Copyright law primer


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Originally posted by mortensen

Quit trolling this board. You always have a thorn right up your aching a$$ whinging on about copyright this, and ripping that. JUST GO AWAY.

There we go.... happy now that you made me mad? You nasty, nasty bully. I'm gonna tell my mommy now.

grow up morty, just because you're included in the 14-16 age group that doesn't mean you have to bitch and if anyone in here has a lifetime membership with the loyal brotherhood of bridge underdwellers you've just proved it to be yourself with this post.

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Originally posted by Eth3l

Regardless, Wicked kitten, what kind of damages do you think that anyone trying to enforce their copyright against an infringer who sells comic books for a living?

Firstly you have to prove damages. When people complain about ripping off ideas for themes or icons, or whatever it gets under my skin. either ask the person politely to give you credit, or dont release your work. Face it people are going to copy it.

This does not mean one should not protect their work. My little Avatar is protect under Trademark Laws; its the mark of The Lowreview. If someones initals are LR and they steal that image for a windows theme they distribute for free . . . . so be it.

However, if someone takes that image, and applys it to a product or service which generate revenue then we have an issue.

There we have an actual damage, and someoen to collect from.

In my opinion the whole of the NeoWin community needs to chill on the copyright issue; unless they have registered or protected works.

later.

Well with new laws and legislation there is no longer a clause that the person actually has to make money from the infringement before you can be awarded damages. Also according to Title 17, chapter 5, section 504 in the US code of collection

(1)

the copyright owner's actual damages and any additional profits of the infringer, as provided by subsection (b); or

(2)

statutory damages, as provided by subsection ©.

of which subsection c states:
© Statutory Damages. -

(1)

Except as provided by clause (2) of this subsection, the copyright owner may elect, at any time before final judgment is rendered, to recover, instead of actual damages and profits, an award of statutory damages for all infringements involved in the action, with respect to any one work, for which any one infringer is liable individually, or for which any two or more infringers are liable jointly and severally, in a sum of not less than $750 or more than $30,000 as the court considers just. For the purposes of this subsection, all the parts of a compilation or derivative work constitute one work.

(2)

In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000. In a case where the infringer sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that such infringer was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her acts constituted an infringement of copyright, the court in its discretion may reduce the award of statutory damages to a sum of not less than $200. The court shall remit statutory damages in any case where an infringer believed and had reasonable grounds for believing that his or her use of the copyrighted work was a fair use under section 107, if the infringer was:

(i)

an employee or agent of a nonprofit educational institution, library, or archives acting within the scope of his or her employment who, or such institution, library, or archives itself, which infringed by reproducing the work in copies or phonorecords; or

(ii)

a public broadcasting entity which or a person who, as a regular part of the nonprofit activities of a public broadcasting entity (as defined in subsection (g) of section 118) infringed by performing a published nondramatic literary work or by reproducing a transmission program embodying a performance of such a work.

also you wanted to know what happens if the person is unavailable to pay in the case of a successful lawsuit? The court can choose to garnish any wages that you may have until the balance of the judgement has been paid.

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Originally posted by drewster2100

if you are in any way refering to me, go **** yourself

And if I'm not in any way referring to you, but to those who chose to make more of an issue out of what happened than it really was, and subsequently sent me e-mails, private messages, and so on hurling abuse at me, then should I still go and **** myself drewster?

I'm sorry if you feel offended by any comments I've made, but I only ever told the story as I saw it from my side. Obviously it's going to differ from the way you saw things as there are two sides to every story. In all honesty, and I've said this time and time again, I'd just like to leave the whole thing in the past and move on. Unfortunately, there seems to be a determined group of people who are set on badmouthing me and spreading lies about what happened every time I make a post on this forum, and indeed several other forums online.

What happened is in the past drewster, and if it's any consolation, no matter who was in the right about certain aspects of what happened, I consider your attitude toward me one of the more mature and responsible ones after I found out what you were doing. Why you keep having to make personal attacks on me whenever I talk in general about the attitudes of a group of people on this site is completely beyond me.

Can we just let this finish here and now?

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Originally posted by mephistocorugan

grayhaze: you got the wrong impression

http://137.54.229.3:8666/hosted/mm-mh-base.psd

and, before you claim warezing, i get educational and employee discounts through the university here, thus, i use photoshop

Well in that case, I can only apologise mephisto. I said I wasn't completely sure about what happened in your case, and you've come up with proof, so I'll admit I was wrong. Sorry.

Now William Bart has given the go ahead for your theme, I'll be the first to admit that you've done a good job, at least from the screenshots I've seen. However, I do still disagree with the way you went about creating a port without permission, but then that's what this whole discussion is about.

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Originally posted by mortensen

Quit trolling this board. You always have a thorn right up your aching a$$ whinging on about copyright this, and ripping that. JUST GO AWAY.

There we go.... happy now that you made me mad? You nasty, nasty bully. I'm gonna tell my mommy now.

You know, I bet if you were picked up by the police and thrown into jail for stealing a car, your defense plea at your trial would probably go along similar lines.

"You judges, you're all the same. Always bitching about criminals this and law that. Why don't you just go away you big bully?"

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Originally posted by Eth3l

Regardless, Wicked kitten, what kind of damages do you think that anyone trying to enforce their copyright against an infringer who sells comic books for a living?

Firstly you have to prove damages. When people complain about ripping off ideas for themes or icons, or whatever it gets under my skin. either ask the person politely to give you credit, or dont release your work. Face it people are going to copy it.

This does not mean one should not protect their work. My little Avatar is protect under Trademark Laws; its the mark of The Lowreview. If someones initals are LR and they steal that image for a windows theme they distribute for free . . . . so be it.

However, if someone takes that image, and applys it to a product or service which generate revenue then we have an issue.

There we have an actual damage, and someoen to collect from.

In my opinion the whole of the NeoWin community needs to chill on the copyright issue; unless they have registered or protected works.

later.

i agree they need to chill bigtime. I said it before and i'll say it again. You make themes for YOURself. For fun. Ok so you choose to release them to the public. Why not? It's always good to share and it's fun to be praised for your work and skills. So someone copies your work? BIG friggin deal! Life goes on. Who the hell CARES! Don't release your work if you don't want people mess'n with it. I WILL make my work. I WILL make it FOR me. I WILL release it to the public because that's what i do. I share my creations. End of Story. I could give a rat's buttocks if 10 thousand people modded my work and released it claiming it to be their own. I DON'T care because i made it for ME not for everyone else. These themes are for FUN people. Get over this copyright and credit nonsense already and leave it to things that NEED it. Leave this "me me me" stuff at home and have fun on the internet. Copyright was NEVER meant to be in the same sentence as FREE.

I fully understand that the fact is some people simply want credit for their work if people are going to copy their work and claim it to be their own. Some people don't like the idea they worked as hard as they did and someone else may get lots of credit for work they didn't do. In this case, you simply did not do the theme for yourself. It's clear you were out to make a theme and be loved for how much it ruled ass. Nothing wrong with this. But if you're like me, you did it for yourself and you have no bizwhacks running your mouth about credit. You shouldn't care one bit, let them have their fun. We cannot help they ain't got skillz. You still have your kickass theme on your computer in your vision and that's all that matters. Leave the dark side that is copyrights and credits, join me and realize it ain't even worth 3 seconds of your time. If we here at message boards can't even live without some kind of law invading our space then the internet is a lost cause and we might as well drop it, save the 20 bucks a month an ISP costs, and face the same damn laws head on in real life.

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Originally posted by Botiemaster

If we here at message boards can't even live without some kind of law invading our space then the internet is a lost cause and we might as well drop it, save the 20 bucks a month an ISP costs, and face the same damn laws head on in real life.

sorry to have to break your spiel bubble but duh the internet is real life unless you are one of those saddo's that go around with internet personas, also the internet if you haven't noticed already isn't anarchyland, even neowin has rules which you can get banned for if you break them.

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even neowin has rules which you can get banned for if you break them

It doesnt help any when people generalize Neowin for being a bunch of law breaking kids. This is not the case and I find it highly offending that people try to portray this.

I have said in the past many times that people can be reported when they break the rules. Both admin and mods participate in Neowin so its a feeble excuse not to PM or "report" anyone breaking the rules.

Starting a thread which clearly complains about the actions of a minority imho will not change a damn thing. Unless of course you also reported the person commiting the act (I have received no such complaint)

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Originally posted by aco

Sorry Wickedkitten, I just fail to see the substance in your original post.

Which thememakers are infringing copyright? :s

What substance are you failing to see? It was the basics of copyright law for people that don't seem to know or care about it to kill some of the misconceptions that seem to be floating around the customizing xp board that either a. there is no such thing as copyright on the internet or b. that they automatically get copyright over anything they create or c. just giving credit to the original maker is ok and you don't have to ask them for permission.

I could easily say that one of the mods here is guilty of not only copyright infringement but for making profit off it as well.

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Originally posted by Wickedkitten

I could easily say that one of the mods here is guilty of not only copyright infringement but for making profit off it as well.

?????

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Originally posted by Wickedkitten

I could easily say that one of the mods here is guilty of not only copyright infringement but for making profit off it as well.

Would you mind clarifying that statement ? :s At any rate, i dont think its fair to go naming names here. You cannot point fingers at anyone unless you have substantial evidence of said crime. Keep in mind that accusing someone of "copyright infringement" a serious crime in itself, is quite a bold accusation to be making....

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Originally posted by Neobond

?????

Exactly. Who?

If you are going to make statements at least provide something to back up your argument.

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Originally posted by Keldyn

Would you mind clarifying that statement ? :s At any rate, i dont think its fair to go naming names here. You cannot point fingers at anyone unless you have substantial evidence of said crime. Keep in mind that accusing someone of "copyright infringement" a serious crime in itself, is quite a bold accusation to be making....

but keldyn, you already knew about this before he was even made a mod.

https://www.neowin.net/bboard/showthread.php?s=&postid=153184

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Yes, that is exactly what i thought you were speaking of kitten. Iconman apologised for his actions and no longer makes money off it. I dont think he ever made any money from it to be honest. He now asks all authors permissions before adding icons to his site, so surely you can see he is now making an effort to be responsible and up front. Dont hold that against him. It took alot of guts for him to admit he was wrong, and to apologise on a public forum to so many people. Forgive and forget eh ?

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I could be way off here, but I have noticed a trend in the attitudes of the people here. It seems very much like those of us from the UK are the only ones who hold any regard for the law with respect to the internet. Just a coincidence? Maybe we're just better educated about law in this country, or perhaps we really are the only country that give a damn about personal rights on the net.

To the guy who says that he doesn't mind if a million people rip off his work, all I'll say is that you can't be very proud of your work if you care so little. As a professional designer, I treat any work I do in my spare time just the same as the work I do for money. Just because I release my work to the public doesn't mean that gives them the right to screw with it. Just because it's free, doesn't mean it's any less important to me. I create skins for myself, and then share those skins with the public. I don't create raw materials for any 14 year old hack to bludgeon into a badly crafted rip-off.

There are no excuses, and no reason not to take Wickedkitten's post for what it is - a refresher on something that is important and should be common knowledge. It applies to each and every person here, not just those people who care.

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Originally posted by Keldyn

Yes, that is exactly what i thought you were speaking of kitten. Iconman apologised for his actions and no longer makes money off it. I dont think he ever made any money from it to be honest. He now asks all authors permissions before adding icons to his site, so surely you can see he is now making an effort to be responsible and up front. Dont hold that against him. It took alot of guts for him to admit he was wrong, and to apologise on a public forum to so many people. Forgive and forget eh ?

yes I do think it was good of him to apologise after he got caught making profit off others work, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that if he hadn't have broken the law and gotten caught he wouldn't have had to apologise in the first place would he?

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Originally posted by grayhaze

I could be way off here, but I have noticed a trend in the attitudes of the people here. It seems very much like those of us from the UK are the only ones who hold any regard for the law with respect to the internet. Just a coincidence? Maybe we're just better educated about law in this country, or perhaps we really are the only country that give a damn about personal rights on the net...

Way off mate.

Come back when you can produce the results of a detailed study on how well educated people from country to country in regards to the law.

Then maybe I'll read the rest of your post. :right:

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Originally posted by grayhaze

I could be way off here, but I have noticed a trend in the attitudes of the people here. It seems very much like those of us from the UK are the only ones who hold any regard for the law with respect to the internet. Just a coincidence? Maybe we're just better educated about law in this country, or perhaps we really are the only country that give a damn about personal rights on the net.

To the guy who says that he doesn't mind if a million people rip off his work, all I'll say is that you can't be very proud of your work if you care so little. As a professional designer, I treat any work I do in my spare time just the same as the work I do for money. Just because I release my work to the public doesn't mean that gives them the right to screw with it. Just because it's free, doesn't mean it's any less important to me. I create skins for myself, and then share those skins with the public. I don't create raw materials for any 14 year old hack to bludgeon into a badly crafted rip-off.

There are no excuses, and no reason not to take Wickedkitten's post for what it is - a refresher on something that is important and should be common knowledge. It applies to each and every person here, not just those people who care.

Again someone else who thinks he's all high and mighty.. The UK only have any regard for the law on the Internet? and what did you say.. Its the 14 year olds that rip off your work?

Grow up mate..

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Originally posted by Keldyn

Yes, that is exactly what i thought you were speaking of kitten. Iconman apologised for his actions and no longer makes money off it. I dont think he ever made any money from it to be honest. He now asks all authors permissions before adding icons to his site, so surely you can see he is now making an effort to be responsible and up front. Dont hold that against him. It took alot of guts for him to admit he was wrong, and to apologise on a public forum to so many people. Forgive and forget eh ?

After reading through that whole thread, it just looks like yet another case of 'cookie jar syndrome' to me. He didn't really admit that he was doing wrong anyway, and still provides the large icon packs for download from his site. I can guarantee, having looked at some of the icons in those packs, that he never got permission from a large number of authors to redistribute their work. Those large icon packs should be removed instantly.

It also made me laugh when in his long message about his terms and conditions he claims that he 'never referred to them as 'my pack''. Just take a look at his sig - 'Download my free icon pack from my site'. Classic.

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Have you even read through the entire thread at all ? No ? I didnt think so... i suggest you go back, educate yourself, then maybe we can continue this discussion like ,mature adults. perhaps we should remind you that neowin has over 11000 members here. We have a very large artistic community amongst us. people are submitting their work here to share with the community all the time. Iconman is not charging anyone anything for the icons. As far as i can tell, he is simply making it conveniant for others by providing them all for download from the one place. he is "hosting" if you will.

Iconman has apologised, he now seeks,permission, i believe him, and i think you should seriously back off until you truly have something intelligent to add.

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Originally posted by Neobond

Again someone else who thinks he's all high and mighty.. The UK only have any regard for the law on the Internet? and what did you say.. Its the 14 year olds that rip off your work?

Grow up mate..

If you read what I said, you'll see that I said 'maybe' that was the reason. I was just thinking aloud. It does seem very much like a them and us situation here though, even though Wickedkitten and myself make a lot of very valid points.

As for the 14 year olds, perhaps it isn't just them who rip off my work. Maybe there are people of a whole range of ages who rip off my work. However, they all ACT like 14 year olds when faced with copyright law. This thread is proof enough of that.

Grow up? If only I hadn't, and could be so blinkered as the rest...

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Originally posted by Keldyn

Have you even read through the entire thread at all ? No ? I didnt think so... i suggest you go back, educate yourself, then maybe we can continue this discussion like ,mature adults. perhaps we should remind you that neowin has over 11000 members here. We have a very large artistic community amongst us. people are submitting their work here to share with the community all the time. Iconman is not charging anyone anything for the icons. As far as i can tell, he is simply making it conveniant for others by providing them all for download from the one place.

Iconman has apologised, he now seeks,permission, i believe him, and i think you should seriously back off until you truly have something intelligent to add.

Yes, I have read the entire thread Keldyn. I'm also conducting myself like an adult; that is, someone with a sense of right and wrong. I personally couldn't care less how many members NeoWin has. The fact remains that certain numbers of those members are creating a bad image for the site throughout the rest of the community by engaging in illegal activities. If you can't bear to acknowledge that those things happen, then you're only giving them free reign to continue.

I'll say this again, as I don't think you understand. Iconman is still distributing the exact same icon packs he was during the time that thread was happening, and he does not have permission from the authors. The additional packs he is distributing, he may well have permission for, but the big ~20Mb files I can guarantee he does not. If you can't take my word on that, then that's your problem.

It doesn't matter one little bit whether he's making a profit from the icons. He is illegally redistributing the work of legitimate artists. Money doesn't come into copyright law anywhere. I suggest you go right back to the top of this thread and brush up on your law.

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https://www.neowin.net/bboard/search.php?s=...s&searchid=1678

Oh forgive me grayhaze, the link above is a search of all your posts.. and it seems you fall into a minority of whiners..

why? Your posts are mostly complaints since you signed up here on Neowin.. but.. not once has this admin or mods received an official complaint from you that someone ripped you off here at Neowin.

Go figure

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you keep going on about icons this and icons that but this issue wasn't icons, it was visual styles, nowhere in his website did he ever mention the original makers of those and nowhere in any of his posts did he apologise to anyone of the artists whos copyrights he infringed.

In spite of this he was essentially "rewarded" and made a mod over the very section of the site that he used for breaking copyright and where at first keldyn said that he should be banned and timdorr spoke up against his illegality now we see a complete reverse of attitudes by keldyn and in essence his statement that iconman should be let off with a slap on the wrist because he said he was sorry.

Am I missing something here?

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