Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by [saint dark]you, religious people, are starting to make me sick"look at me, I HAVE THE TRUTH, why?, because I say so" there?s not ENOUGHT evidence to evolution, I agree but also, there?s NO evidence to a creationism neither The problem with THE CREATIONISTS is that those that support it are extremists who a few hundred years ago would have argued just as strongly that the Earth is is the center of the universe. You all the creationists, go and read some books and information about THE MODERN evolutionist theory, the Darwin evolutionists is OLD. I agree again, me and my mind cant explain the whole theory (or even understand all of it) but neither you, thats because the humans invented "GOD", because that word is the QUICK AND EASY ANSWER to everything and of the rant, agree if you want, disagree if you want, Im tired of this kind of topics, is crearly enought to see the real intentions of making things like this b> Humans invented God. Hmm..... How interesting? Give me a reference where you found that nonsense from. I do agree with you that evolution nor creation can be proven. That doesn't mean you can call creationists extremists. We call Osama bin Laden an extremist of the Islamic religion so please refrain from calling creationists extremists. So, I can call evolutionists extremist fundalmentlists trying to get their agenda done to the best of their ability but I am not. This is because we need a substantial amount of evidence for either claim as to flip the boat over. Can we just play nice and debate in a civilized matter and not throw certain claims out there like god is an invetion of man. Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 The problem with THE CREATIONISTS is that those that support it are extremists who a few hundred years ago would have argued just as strongly that the Earth is is the center of the universe. Actually, Einstien proved that everything is relative. The earth can be the center of the Universe, if you happen to be standing on it. Since the Universe is alleged to be infinite, without a clearly established end, center becomes a meaningless term and can be established where ever one would choose to perceive it. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by TimeRider We have no disagreement here Jim. It should be taught as a theory. A scientific theory is much more than what most think it is. Too many confuse the term hypothesis with the term theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedkitten Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by [saint dark]you, religious people, are starting to make me sick"look at me, I HAVE THE TRUTH, why?, because I say so" there?s not ENOUGHT evidence to evolution, I agree but also, there?s NO evidence to a creationism neither The problem with THE CREATIONISTS is that those that support it are extremists who a few hundred years ago would have argued just as strongly that the Earth is is the center of the universe. You all the creationists, go and read some books and information about THE MODERN evolutionist theory, the Darwin evolutionists is OLD. I agree again, me and my mind cant explain the whole theory (or even understand all of it) but neither you, thats because the humans invented "GOD", because that word is the QUICK AND EASY ANSWER to everything and of the rant, agree if you want, disagree if you want, Im tired of this kind of topics, is crearly enought to see the real intentions of making things like this b> yes darwinism is old, but if it wasn't for him pushing into society the idea that perhaps we didn't just get created out of dust you wouldn't HAVE modern evolutionism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 TR: Our education system, does an admirable job in indoctrinating and dumbing down the next generation. I think our public schools sysyem is not only useless, but dangerous. And I don't agree with you that parents can't educate their own. People have been doing it for centuries and it worked. Politics and education don't mix! It may be a jarring statement, but for more than three full lifetimes ? the 220 years from the 1620s to the 1840s ? most American schooling was independent of government control, subsidy, and influence. From this educational freedom the American Republic was born. Now, after 150 years of tax-financed schooling, we see more and more children failing to grow into responsible, caring, competent adults. A movement is growing to reclaim the American tradition of family responsibility in education by returning to the separation of school and state. http://www.sepschool.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Borg77 Humans invented God. Hmm..... How interesting? Give me a reference where you found that nonsense from. I do agree with you that evolution nor creation can be proven. That doesn't mean you can call creationists extremists. We call Osama bin Laden an extremist of the Islamic religion so please refrain from calling creationists extremists. Yes, people create god in their own image. If this weren't true than there wouldn't be so many different denominations and the like with every theistic belief system. Christianity currently has around 1500 different deniminations with a total of around 30,000 throughout its history. If god were real than there would only be one real religion. So, I can call evolutionists extremist fundalmentlists trying to get their agenda done to the best of their ability but I am not. This is because we need a substantial amount of evidence for either claim as to flip the boat over. Can we just play nice and debate in a civilized matter and not throw certain claims out there like god is an invetion of man. There are mountians of evidence in favor of evolution, but there is not one grain of sand of evidence in favor of creationism which is credible, verifible, or unbiased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF TR: I do think it's possible to teach Divine Creation without discussing a particular point of view (i.e. Christianity). Actually, I believe Muslims, Jews and Christians wouldn't disagree on this issue. I;m not saying we should go into specifics of each religion, just say there is a strong evidence that God created the whole universe and we should also teach them 10 commandments and basic morals which are also common to all 3 religions. Where is this so-called "strong evidence" you have? BTW, the bible is not credible evidence since it has been highly edited and revised over the years. Or better yet, separate schools from the state (IOW abolish public schools) and let everybody choose his own way of educating children. There are millions of homeschooling parents. If it's good enough for them, then it should be good enoughfor everybody else. Do this and only the rich will be educated and the poor will become their slaves. Homeschooling leaves children unpropared for the real world and open to people like Koresh and Jones to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by NOS482 Originally posted by TimeRider We have no disagreement here Jim. It should be taught as a theory. A scientific theory is much more than what most think it is. Too many confuse the term hypothesis with the term theory. 6 entries found for theory. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the?o?ry Pronunciation Key (th-r, th?r) n. pl. the?o?ries A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. 4 entries found for hypothesis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hy?poth?e?sis Pronunciation Key (h-pth-ss) n. pl. hy?poth?e?ses (-sz) A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation. Something taken to be true for the purpose of argument or investigation; an assumption. The antecedent of a conditional statement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with you there is a difference between the meanings of hypothesis and a theory. So, is evolution a group of facts or a group of phenomena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 TR and anybody else who thinks that govenment schools are a good thing: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16216 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 Humans invented God. Hmm..... How interesting? Give me a reference where you found that nonsense from. I do agree with you that evolution nor creation can be proven. That doesn't mean you can call creationists extremists. We call Osama bin Laden an extremist of the Islamic religion so please refrain from calling creationists extremists.So, I can call evolutionists extremist fundalmentlists trying to get their agenda done to the best of their ability but I am not. This is because we need a substantial amount of evidence for either claim as to flip the boat over. Can we just play nice and debate in a civilized matter and not throw certain claims out there like god is an invetion of man. Thank You. here?s your reference, "God", in my opinion, is just such a simple idea, the term god was used to explain the fenomena that cant be explained at first (the rain, the sun, the sky) example: why is this happening? Because God made it/says it/want it, blah bla blah (only answer, no more questions, how convenient) I can call creationists extremist conservatives trying to announce their believes, because "they see the truth" and it cant be denied because if we try it, we are extremist fundamentalists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by NOS482 Originally posted by Borg77 Humans invented God. Hmm..... How interesting? Give me a reference where you found that nonsense from. I do agree with you that evolution nor creation can be proven. That doesn't mean you can call creationists extremists. We call Osama bin Laden an extremist of the Islamic religion so please refrain from calling creationists extremists. Yes, people create god in their own image. If this weren't true than there wouldn't be so many different denominations and the like with every theistic belief system. Christianity currently has around 1500 different deniminations with a total of around 30,000 throughout its history. If god were real than there would only be one real religion. So, I can call evolutionists extremist fundalmentlists trying to get their agenda done to the best of their ability but I am not. This is because we need a substantial amount of evidence for either claim as to flip the boat over. Can we just play nice and debate in a civilized matter and not throw certain claims out there like god is an invetion of man. There are mountians of evidence in favor of evolution, but there is not one grain of sand of evidence in favor of creationism which is credible, verifible, or unbiased. great post there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF Politics and education don't mix! Neither does religion and education. It may be a jarring statement, but for more than three full lifetimes ? the 220 years from the 1620s to the 1840s ? most American schooling was independent of government control, subsidy, and influence. From this educational freedom the American Republic was born. That is fine, if you want to live in an agricultural society of centuries past, but it wouldn't work in today's world.Now, after 150 years of tax-financed schooling, we see more and more children failing to grow into responsible, caring, competent adults. A movement is growing to reclaim the American tradition of family responsibility in education by returning to the separation of school and state. That is mainly because of short-sighted and greedy fools who think more of a short term tax cut by gutting educational budgets than they do of their children's future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Borg77 I agree with you there is a difference between the meanings of hypothesis and a theory. So, is evolution a group of facts or a group of phenomena. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumboot Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 In a recent thread on this subject, I think the evolutionists made it clear that evolution was a theory. A theory is simply a conclusion that meets the facts as we know them thus far. I don't think they were wrong or out of line in this issue. Evolution is a theory. It's also a fact. And I don't mean that it's 100% proven - because such a thing is not possible. It's not even possible to prove that we aren't living in a Matrix-esque virtual reality. What I mean is, so much evidence has been collected in the last 150 years to support evolution, that, if it weren't for the conflict with the Bible, everyone would accept it as true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Well, we're getting off topic here but . . . From this educational freedom the American Republic was born.The American Republic was born of a group of wealthy land owners who were tired of paying taxes to the King. The equality of which they so eloquently spoke, the government of the people, was never intended to include all the people, only the land owners themselves. Spare me about their concerns toward education, since it never applied equally to all.most American schooling was independent of government control, subsidy, and influence Yes . . and I believe it was illegal to teach blacks and Chinese to read . . . wonderful system. A movement is growing to reclaim the American tradition of family responsibility in education by returning to the separation of school and state God bless them . . . if they should ever manage to legislate such a philosophy, I, as a member of this society shall abide by the law. Until then I will continue to educate my children in the public school system, the same place I got my education. But I'm dumbed down . . . so I guess I cannot see what is best for my kids. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by NOS482 Originally posted by Borg77 Humans invented God. Hmm..... How interesting? Give me a reference where you found that nonsense from. I do agree with you that evolution nor creation can be proven. That doesn't mean you can call creationists extremists. We call Osama bin Laden an extremist of the Islamic religion so please refrain from calling creationists extremists. Yes, people create god in their own image. If this weren't true than there wouldn't be so many different denominations and the like with every theistic belief system. Christianity currently has around 1500 different deniminations with a total of around 30,000 throughout its history. If god were real than there would only be one real religion. So, I can call evolutionists extremist fundalmentlists trying to get their agenda done to the best of their ability but I am not. This is because we need a substantial amount of evidence for either claim as to flip the boat over. Can we just play nice and debate in a civilized matter and not throw certain claims out there like god is an invetion of man. There are mountians of evidence in favor of evolution, but there is not one grain of sand of evidence in favor of creationism which is credible, verifible, or unbiased. I wouldn't go that far to say that there isn't one grain of sand of evidence for creation. It seems to me you are close minded to just the theory of evolution. I accept evolution as a micro-process but not as a macro-process. What we really need is to establish a laboratory which can last for millions of years as to observe how evolution really takes place? This would be ideal so that we won't keep squabbling about whos right and whos wrong. If you were presented with vastly amounts of evidence that creation was real, would you really still stick your head in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxikk Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 who gives a SH|T. it is real. get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 everyone would accept it as true. And if me Granny had wheels she'd be a Jeep. we'd find something else to argue the point . . . trust me!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Government schools teach students?for 180 days each year for 13 years?that eternity is so unimportant that it?s not worth mentioning. Schools tell students to respect everyone?s ?truth,? even if contradictory. They teach children to be true to their feelings and let those feelings out. Government schools accelerate the failing culture in undermining Christian parents. They eradicate hope. They maximize alienation. Today in schools, we see police outfitted with shotguns, metal detectors, censorship of even honorable mention for Creationism, union calls for what could be only described as ?sodomy appreciation month,? and girls taken for secret abortions. Serious evangelical Protestants and traditional Roman Catholics are bailing out, either to Christian schools or to home schooling. http://www.covenantnews.com/fritz.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 What we really need is to establish a laboratory which can last for millions of years as to observe how evolution really takes place? Wouldn't it be funny if evolution were the result of this very arguement between God and his brother Bob? :) -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Serious evangelical Protestants and traditional Roman Catholics are bailing out, either to Christian schools or to home schooling FABULOUS!!! I say great! It's nice to see involved parents act on their concerns . . . That doesn't absolve them of their responsibilities to the greater community in which they live, that includes taxes for public education. Pay it and quit griping. I paid for ten years before I even had kids. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by NOS482 Originally posted by Borg77 I agree with you there is a difference between the meanings of hypothesis and a theory. So, is evolution a group of facts or a group of phenomena. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html "In any meaningful sense evolution is a fact, but there are various theories concerning the mechanism of evolution. " Oh, so we're going by meaingful sense now that evolution is a fact but there are still theories concerning the mechanism. Give me a break. Can you disprove that dinosaurs didn't live during the 20th century? Pictures of Dinosaurs in the 20th Century Just some information I am passing along to NOS482 like you did with me with the evolution link. I like talking about this so please let us continue debating like civilized human beings. I am not trying to flame you but just bringing up some meaningful information concerning my point of view like with your point of view about evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Toxikk who gives a SH|T. it is real. get over it. I would think that half the planet would give a ****. Since there are over a billion catholics, a billion muslims, and so many budhists and christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedkitten Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Borg77 "In any meaningful sense evolution is a fact, but there are various theories concerning the mechanism of evolution. " Oh, so we're going by meaingful sense now that evolution is a fact but there are still theories concerning the mechanism. Give me a break. Can you disprove that dinosaurs didn't live during the 20th century? Pictures of Dinosaurs in the 20th Century Just some information I am passing along to NOS482 like you did with me with the evolution link. I like talking about this so please let us continue debating like civilized human beings. I am not trying to flame you but just bringing up some meaningful information concerning my point of view like with your point of view about evolution. actually since crocodiles have been around since the time of the dinosaurs and are still the same now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dARKSTAr Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Wait, let me see if i get this straight. You religious nuts have gone and created two threads about his subject? Time to contact the site and forum issues about this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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