Evolution Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Proof of evolution: certain humans are able to resist disease more than others, double jointed humans, and there are also ambidextrous people. btw hasn't religion caused more wars than prevented?(ie the holy war, ethnic cleansing, etc.)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 actually since crocodiles have been around since the time of the dinosaurs and are still the same now.... Actually that is pretty fertile ground . . . why is it that a spiecies such as the crocadile has not evolved when allegedly so many others have? Just a question. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by TimeRider Actually that is pretty fertile ground . . . why is it that a spiecies such as the crocadile has not evolved when allegedly so many others have? Just a question. -TR Crocodiles have evolved significantly over its species lifetime; they have evolved, it's just that they have managed to survive as a species for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Evolution proof of evolution: certain humans are able to resist disease more than others, double jointed humans, and there is also ambi-dextorous people. Proof. I don't think so. Anybody can resist disease if they had a strong immune system but they go about wasting themselves with all this contamination they put into their bodies. I agree with you about the double jointed human beings but that doesn't prove the whole theory of evolution is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 hasn't religion caused more wars than prevented? Isn't that the truth! Kind of silly too, don't you think? -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 TimeRider: Pay for something as evil as public schools and keep quiet about it ? No way. I don't mind paying money to help people who are in need. Do you really not see what's going on in our schools ? It's not about teaching anymore. It's more like shaping the future generations into secular, leftist and anti-God ideas. I think it's a serious sin for a Christian to support this kind of system. I 'd suggest that you think over this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 18, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 18, 2002 Just a question. Is adaption seen as evolution? There is alot of evidence pointing towards species adapting to the envoiroment. What would people call this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 JimF CharlieBrown (members of the make the longest thread fanclub) So I guess you are against all theorys then. So people should not be taught Algebra, Calculus, Physics, and any other subject that has theories. Get a life please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 I think it's a serious sin for a Christian to support this kind of system. You're kidding right? The 11th Commandment . . . Thou shalt not support Public Education? I think that you're overreacting. I cannot and will not subscribe to any hypothesis that blames the ills of society on a single issue. Nor would I support any moves that would essentially compel someone to have to choose a corporate education system for their children. My kids go to Public School. They don't come home with Anti-God ideas. They don't even discuss the subject, pro or con. My oldest son gets straight A's and is a considerate young man. He has hopes to go to college and become a Police Officer. That you think it's a sin is your business, and none of mine. But it is arrogant to suggest that you can lay your template of beliefs over a society as diverse as the American Society is. And anyone else who would suggest such a thing is as arrogant as your comment. My sister, has a degree in Secondary Education, she is as Christian as anyone. She does not teach anti-God or leftist views. We live in a Society of people and laws. There have been more strades made in Human Rights over the past 50 years than in the previous century and a half. Our society has advanced more technologically in the same 50 years than in did in it's entire history. All of this done under your alledgedly flawed public education system. You want to talk about leftist propoganda? This whole family values schtick comes from the far right. These are people who aren't interested solving problems, they're only interested in two things. Making you afraid and telling you who's to blame for it. That's how they control you, that's how they get your vote and that how they get your money. I say all of this . . . and I voted Republican! Sorry Jim . . . I'll never see your side of this. I think you're taking a step in the wrong direction. The spiritual education of children belongs in the home. The general knowledge my kids need, is better taught by professionals than me. And I'll be damned if I'll leave it to a Church, who has an agenda as well. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Neobond: Yes adaptation is a part of evolution. Every organism has a built in adaptation that the DNA polymerase (transcribes DNA when making proteins and replication) has a known error rate. This error rate is higher in organisms with short life spans (virus bacteria). This is a built in guarantee so a mutation will happen sometime. Although the mutation could be negative, fatal, or natural, the positive mutation is what moves the species along allowing it to survive in a constant changing world. This addaptation that we all have amd a FACT. The Darwin finches are an example of divergent adaptation. Two birds of different species have a similar bill size and fight over the same size seeds. So, the two bird species eventually ADDAPT and become more successful by having different bill sizes and do not have to compete over the same size seeds anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miran Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 I get sick when I hear arguments like "the universe and the atoms couldn't have just been here forever".. That is the most naive statement I have ever heard. Infinity is around us everywhere. Look at a circle, or the integers Z, natural numbers N, real numbers R, etc - they are INFINITE. You could count them backwards forever and forwards forever. Why is it that we can't grasp this concept? Because our lives aren't infinite. It is another example of a human being only being able to view things from his own perspective. For example, if you (could) go and tell an insect like say, a housefly, about winter and summer and the seasons and how they keep going around for thousands of years - the fly would not be able to comprehend such an idea, since it only knew of summer - that one brief season before it died. We are the same. We breath a short breath of air and then we die. However, if you take a spaceship and send it off and say 4 million times the speed of light (if that were possible) you know what? It would still NEVER see an end to the universe. It would keep going - on and on, without end. Many theories imagine that the universe is in a state of constant expansion, cooling, loss of inertia, and contraction, heating, and re-expanding (big bang-big crunch). Now if this were the case, then the universe would have ALWAYS BEEN HERE - ALWAYS. No creation, NO END. Just a constant cycle. If this is the case - then it actually proves that there is no need for a God. There is no need for a God in a universe that was never created, and will never be destroyed. Many will argue that the universe expanding disproves this, but we still don't have a complete grasp on the meaning of gravity, or dark matter. The good thing with this theory is that you don't need a God to be brought back to life again, because if the universe is infinitely old and infinitely young then by probability, we will all live again, and by probability, evolution is proven. For with an infinite number of rolls of the dice, every possibility, regardless of how inprobable must be played out. Universal number theory, gentlemen. I think some creationists need to take some ring theory - but that is just academic propaganda right? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF TimeRider: Pay for something as evil as public schools and keep quiet about it ? No way. I don't mind paying money to help people who are in need. Do you really not see what's going on in our schools ? It's not about teaching anymore. It's more like shaping the future generations into secular, leftist and anti-God ideas. I think it's a serious sin for a Christian to support this kind of system. I 'd suggest that you think over this issue. Wow, talk about a christian conservative right winger here. Evolution does not explain how the first organisms DNA was formed and started the entire thing. Could a god/s have created it and started all life as we know it? I don't know, nobody knows. Evolutionisnt can still beleive in God, just that god did not create all life which is a proven fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by username JimF CharlieBrown (members of the make the longest thread fanclub) So I guess you are against all theorys then. So people should not be taught Algebra, Calculus, Physics, and any other subject that has theories. Get a life please. People should be taught Algebra, Calculus, and Physics, etc.... A theory is "A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. " Theories in any subject are up to scrutiny like evolution is. It is being constantly being revised and brought up to modern times. So, until evolution is revised to the point it is pure fact it will remain a theory like any other theory proposed in any subject. Thats why we rely on science to find us the facts behind the theory. Christians or any other religious sect still needs science to survive on this planet we call earth. All this bashing religion and science is pure foolishness. There are many scientists in biology, physics, mathematics that believe in God and they have contributed to science in a great way. So, its just our perspective to question what we don't understand. If we didn't do this we would still be like caveman a couple of thousand years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Borg77 I wouldn't go that far to say that there isn't one grain of sand of evidence for creation. It seems to me you are close minded to just the theory of evolution. It is not a matter of being closed minded, it is the fact that all of the available evidence points to evolution as being real. The only "evidence" for creationism is from totally unreliable sources which are centuries out of date. I accept evolution as a micro-process but not as a macro-process. Micro and macro evolution are the same thing. It is just that one is just enough adaptations to made for a different species. What we really need is to establish a laboratory which can last for millions of years as to observe how evolution really takes place? This would be ideal so that we won't keep squabbling about whos right and whos wrong. Evolution can be simulated in software. In fact there is a program which does exactly this. If you were presented with vastly amounts of evidence that creation was real, would you really still stick your head in the sand. If it did actually exist I would be a fool not to accept it, but I won't be holding my breathe waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Knoxca I get sick when I hear arguments like "the universe and the atoms couldn't have just been here forever".. That is the most naive statement I have ever heard. Infinity is around us everywhere. Look at a circle, or the integers Z, natural numbers N, real numbers R, etc - they are INFINITE. You could count them backwards forever and forwards forever. Why is it that we can't grasp this concept? Because our lives aren't infinite. It is another example of a human being only being able to view things from his own perspective. For example, if you (could) go and tell an insect like say, a housefly, about winter and summer and the seasons and how they keep going around for thousands of years - the fly would not be able to comprehend such an idea, since it only knew of summer - that one brief season before it died. We are the same. We breath a short breath of air and then we die. However, if you take a spaceship and send it off and say 4 million times the speed of light (if that were possible) you know what? It would still NEVER see an end to the universe. It would keep going - on and on, without end. Many theories imagine that the universe is in a state of constant expansion, cooling, loss of inertia, and contraction, heating, and re-expanding (big bang-big crunch). Now if this were the case, then the universe would have ALWAYS BEEN HERE - ALWAYS. No creation, NO END. Just a constant cycle. If this is the case - then it actually proves that there is no need for a God. There is no need for a God in a universe that was never created, and will never be destroyed. Many will argue that the universe expanding disproves this, but we still don't have a complete grasp on the meaning of gravity, or dark matter. The good thing with this theory is that you don't need a God to be brought back to life again, because if the universe is infinitely old and infinitely young then by probability, we will all live again, and by probability, evolution is proven. For with an infinite number of rolls of the dice, every possibility, regardless of how inprobable must be played out. Universal number theory, gentlemen. I think some creationists need to take some ring theory - but that is just academic propaganda right? Lol. I respect your comments on the subject. Have you considered that there might be multiple universes/dimensions or parallel universes that may have different laws of physics. A universe/dimension could be where only beings of energy that inhabit that particular area. Physics is really expanding the ideas behind this approach so we will see if by chance we came here from a different universe that either imploded itself or it just died off. Thats why we have science is to question why we are here. But us religious folk believe in something we can't actually prove and thats why its called faith. So, please respect me as I have you and this isn't meant to flame you in any way. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miran Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Quite a few theories currently abound (with good evidence) that Jesus was a homosexual schizophrenic. If this is true, then the entire christian religion is based the ideas of a queer looney. I find this quite disturbing. Also, re the public school thing. PUBLIC... PUBLIC... do you get it? Not everyone in the world is Christian. Were you born in a barn? Borg - I do respect you. Quite a lot actually, as I have still not come to the conclusion of whether there is a god or not. I don't believe anyone can. I only flame those that try to push Christianity on people (or any other religion for that matter), for example the public school thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF Government schools teach students?for 180 days each year for 13 years?that eternity is so unimportant that it?s not worth mentioning. Schools tell students to respect everyone?s ?truth,? even if contradictory. They teach children to be true to their feelings and let those feelings out.ngs out. Freedom of belief means all beliefs not just Christian belief. You are your own worsGovernment schools accelerate the failing culture in undermining Christian parents. They eradicate hope. They maximize alienation.enation. Today in schools, we see police outfitted with shotguns, metal detectors,tectors, This has more to do with your culture of guns than anythi censorship of even honorable mention for Creationism,tionism, I'm sure that you would protest any "honorable" mention of sex during Sunday mass union calls for what could be only described as ?sodomy appreciation month,? and girls taken for secret abortions.t abortions. Distortions of the acSerious evangelical Protestants and traditional Roman Catholics are bailing out, either to Christian schools or to home schooling.e schooling. And doing nothing but harming their children by leaving them totally unpropared for the real world and being prime targets for Christian personality cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 TimeRider: Do you need to have a Harvard degree to be able to teach basic reading, writing and math ? I think anybody can do it. I firmly believe that public schools today do not prepare young people for the real life. It's all about political corectness nowadays. God says that the parents are primarily responsible for educating their kids, not the state. Nothing is more important then eternal salvation. And public schools not only fail to achieve this, they do extremaly good job in insuring that as many peple as possible will be eternally damned. How do they do it ? Well just teach them that we evolved from a bacteria, there is no God, everything is OK, no personal responsibility, nothing. Can you tell me what's wrong with separating schools from the state ? How can this be a bad thing ? How is it that many people can handle paying high taxes and at the same time home educate their kids. Is it fair that these people are paying twice in fact ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 This has already been discussed. https://www.neowin.net/bboard/showthread.ph...&threadid=22835 You say there is no evidence, we posted probably 10 or so real world examples. You want a scientific discussion but offered NO examples of creation. Please close this already done thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by NOS482 Originally posted by Borg77 I wouldn't go that far to say that there isn't one grain of sand of evidence for creation. It seems to me you are close minded to just the theory of evolution. It is not a matter of being closed minded, it is the fact that all of the available evidence points to evolution as being real. The only "evidence" for creationism is from totally unreliable sources which are centuries out of date. I accept evolution as a micro-process but not as a macro-process. Micro and macro evolution are the same thing. It is just that one is just enough adaptations to made for a different species. What we really need is to establish a laboratory which can last for millions of years as to observe how evolution really takes place? This would be ideal so that we won't keep squabbling about whos right and whos wrong. Evolution can be simulated in software. In fact there is a program which does exactly this. If you were presented with vastly amounts of evidence that creation was real, would you really still stick your head in the sand. If it did actually exist I would be a fool not to accept it, but I won't be holding my breathe waiting. You might be right about evidence being hundreds out of date. But that doesn't mean they can't be analyzed with today's technology. The shroud of Tourin is a good example of how today's technology has analyzed the cloth that Jesus was buried in. You can come up with your own conclusions and opinions. The Shroud Of Tourin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Borg77 "In any meaningful sense evolution is a fact, but there are various theories concerning the mechanism of evolution. " Oh, so we're going by meaingful sense now that evolution is a fact but there are still theories concerning the mechanism. Give me a break. Can you disprove that dinosaurs didn't live during the 20th century? Pictures of Dinosaurs in the 20th Century Just some information I am passing along to NOS482 like you did with me with the evolution link. I like talking about this so please let us continue debating like civilized human beings. I am not trying to flame you but just bringing up some meaningful information concerning my point of view like with your point of view about evolution. I suppose that now you're going to try and dismiss gravity as well. We don't fully understand how it works but we still can see that it is real. You are just not getting the concept here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 18, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 18, 2002 The only thing man can be certain of is that man does not know everything ;) I made that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by NOS482 I suppose that now you're going to try and dismiss gravity as well. We don't fully understand how it works but we still can see that it is real. You are just not getting the concept here. No, I am not trying to disprove gravity. Your the one that said I am trying to disprove gravity and I never said anything about disproving gravity. I merely gave an article giving evidence that dinosaurs probably existed in the 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by TimeRider Actually that is pretty fertile ground . . . why is it that a spiecies such as the crocadile has not evolved when allegedly so many others have? Just a question. -TR Easy, they are almost perfectly adapted to their environment. Most sharks haven't really changed in over 300 million years either. Another misconception about evolution is that it is a steady ongoing process. It can stall, speed up or lead to a dead end (We may still prove out to be a deadend), it all depends on the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Neobond Just a question. Is adaption seen as evolution? There is alot of evidence pointing towards species adapting to the envoiroment. What would people call this? EVOLUTION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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