john smith 1924 Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF Actually Shroud of Turin is not fake. It's real. The dating test they did was a total fraud. Plus carbon dating mathod is not accurate at all. i think that statement is rediculous. Carbon dating is an advanced scientific methods which is highly accurate, so much so that in recent times- the last 10 years it has been used in murder trials to establish when victims died. It shows your stupidity if nothing else pal! Evolution does exist. There is a proven genetic link between us and other mamals- eg. our closest relatives the chimps/monkeys. Also, any biologists on the boards will be familiar with ATP - adenasine tri-phosphate. It is used in the body for energy in the muscles and other organs. The important point here is that EVERY KNOW ANIMAL ON THE PLANET USES THIS METHOD - do you want to tell me thats just co-incidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF Actually Shroud of Turin is not fake. It's real. The dating test they did was a total fraud. Plus carbon dating mathod is not accurate at all. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!! Thanks, that was a good one. You know, using a computer would have had you burned at the stake for being a witch in earlier times, why embrace the same science you apparently choose to reject whenever you feel like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Neobond: http://www.shroud.com/ The Shroud of Turin is a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. A man that millions believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. Is it really the cloth that wrapped his crucified body, or is it simply a medieval forgery, a hoax perpetrated by some clever artist? Modern, twentieth century science has completed hundreds of thousands of hours of detailed study and intense research on the Shroud. It is, in fact, the single most studied artifact in human history, and we know more about it today than we ever have before. And yet, the controversy still rages. This web site will keep you abreast of current research, provide you with accurate data from the previous research and let you interact with the researchers themselves. We believe that if you have access to the facts, you can make up your own mind about the Shroud. Make sure you visit the page where you can Examine the Shroud of Turin for yourself. We hope you enjoy your visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Were there any white people in Africa in the time of Jesus? Does anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 18, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 18, 2002 The dating test they did was a total fraud. Plus carbon dating mathod is not accurate at all. I was referring to that statement JimF but as you have again proven you came back with your own interpretation. Thats fair enough and I can understand that however, if you are going to call fraud and that a proven science is not "at all accurate" at least try to back the statement up with fact. Thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Neobond: What earlier post have I failed to respond ? I missed it. Also, to be fair maybe you should require the other side also to back up their statements. They said The Shroud of turin is a fake. I didn't see anyone backing up that claim. I considered that quote very disruptive also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P. Administrators Posted April 18, 2002 Administrators Share Posted April 18, 2002 First post on Page 7. I also understand that both parties need to at least try to back up their statements with fact. If they dont do this we may as well start calling each other purple elephants because thats all this thread is heading for in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Neobond: Dating is not a proven science at all. Here is a good explanation about how inaccurate all the dating methods are. INACCURATE DATING METHODS - Why the non-historical dating techniques are not reliable http://www.evolution-facts.org/c06a.htm Also regarding the fraud that was done when they were dating the Shroud, I don't have a link, but if I do I'll post it. There is a whole video on it. I may digitize it and post it here some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgEnTsMiTh Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Close this thread. I love how most debates turn ugly. Why is it that people just cant have friendly debates WITHOUT going overboard. I for one think Evolution is a total farce. Darwin was a fraud and admitted such before his death. etc etc. But who cares. That is what is so cool about our differences. We can think and believe what we want and we should not result to child like flaming and put downs. Most of what I have read put down the other side as being stupid etc. Well I dont think such. We have our own thoughts and no matter what we should respect eachothers opinions. This is what GROWN UPS should do.......Now can we talk about computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by JimF Actually Shroud of Turin is not fake. It's real. The dating test they did was a total fraud. Plus carbon dating mathod is not accurate at all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by silly_walk HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!! Thanks, that was a good one. You know, using a computer would have had you burned at the stake for being a witch in earlier times, why embrace the same science you apparently choose to reject whenever you feel like it? Dating is not a proven science at all. Here is a good explanation about how inaccurate all the dating methods are. That's it, then, you're a witch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenLin Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 JimF, you keep giving references to highly-biased websites. The one you gave was run by the Creationist Research Society. Gee, they haven't already concluded the result of their research, have they? As for the Shroud of Turin, so what. Maybe Jesus was buried in it, maybe he wasn't. Beyond being a historical artifact, what does it matter either way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by JimF http://www.evolution-facts.org/c06a.htm This website says that it is mysterious that the planets don't crash into the Sun. :p There's a fountain of knowledge for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by TurdFerg As for the Shroud of Turin, so what. Maybe Jesus was buried in it, maybe he wasn't. Beyond being a historical artifact, what does it matter either way? He probably can't separate a man named Jesus from the creation of the planet by God. If my decomposing body was left for days in a blanket, I bet that would leave a mark also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbeast Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 What the hell? No proof for evolution? The shroud of Turin? No proof of God? I hate it when people talk about things they know nothing about. Why do mods allow these forums that by there very title are looking to cause problems? Is this really what Neowin is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Yatta Yatta Yatta Yatta Yatta You-you-you-you Us-us-us-us YATTAAAAAA! Purple Elephants all around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Mr magoo i think that statement is rediculous. Carbon dating is an advanced scientific methods which is highly accurate, so much so that in recent times- the last 10 years it has been used in murder trials to establish when victims died. It shows your stupidity if nothing else pal! Evolution does exist. There is a proven genetic link between us and other mamals- eg. our closest relatives the chimps/monkeys. Also, any biologists on the boards will be familiar with ATP - adenasine tri-phosphate. It is used in the body for energy in the muscles and other organs. The important point here is that EVERY KNOW ANIMAL ON THE PLANET USES THIS METHOD - do you want to tell me thats just co-incidence? If carbon dating is really a highly advanced science and is very accurate; then it would be very accurate in calculating things that were millions of years old. I don't think the dinosaur bones were enclosed in a closed system for millions of years. When the dinosaurs died their bones were on the surface of the earth until natural forces (a couple thousand years) buried them into the ground. And how would that affect the carbon dating if chemicals or certain natural resources (like oil) interacted with the fossils in the ground before they were uncoverd a so called millions of years later. You could consider the mummies of egypt a slight closed system since they were buried in tombs away from the open environment in egypt. This example would be way more accurate then bones that were in the ground for millions of years interacting with who knows what. My point is that carbon dating can be used in modern times like criminal trials that you have mentioned. But you have to consider the fact its not so accurate in calculating ages of millions of years. Carbon dating maybe a highly advanced science in criminal science but not in all sciences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg77 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by silly_walk You will notice that I said that the Shroud WAS proven fake by the same methods that say that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago. Are you going to tell me next that people who lived in biblical times really did live to be 900 years old? This is another assertion made in the bible. You might have to consider that we did live longer way in the past but probably not 900 years. If the earth had an overabundance of oxygen; more then we have now you could possibly perceive us living at least 200 years. There wasn't no pollution in the air or water and you have to consider that also. Plus they weren't eating the crap we eat today either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underscorebios Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 **** i better stop eating that macdonalds crap ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semifamous Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by silly_walk Were there any white people in Africa in the time of Jesus? Does anybody know? Yes, there were. Jesus' family went to Egypt for a while to hide from the King, who wanted to kill all the babies. Jesus' family was jewish. I would guess that they were white, and Egypt *is* in Africa, so yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 we did come from a bang of elements. period. and that bang of elements was not "created". comparing a watch to the big bang, or asking somebody to change a rat into a dog in 20 years means YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT. evolution is the process of adaptation and transformation over an extremely large amount of "time". a pig cant suddenly become a horse because it evolved into one. man made watches. man made the bible! that doesnt mean that some bigger man made what man couldnt make. nobody made the big bang. and right after that bang, all the particles didnt just fly together and form earth, they flew.... and they flew, and they flew, and they flew. the universe is expanding....what does that lead us to believe? THAT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION. everything is still moving away from that. and on a side note...... who said people lived LONGER in the past? are you mental? i guess modern day medicine had no effect on the length of our lives. even tho each generation gains a bit of time over the previous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted April 18, 2002 Veteran Share Posted April 18, 2002 and furthurmore.... how can you argue "well what was before the big bang?" well wheres gods mommy? i want their whole friggin family tree. mr and misses god, aunty god, uncle god, what did god evolve from? higher power monkeys?!! or has god just always been there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elduderino Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Hehe, the Turin shroud kinda reminds me of the sort of thing that appears on students bed sheets. They don't wash it for a year and leave their print on the sheet. Borg77, oxygen is the one thing that is killing us. Free radicals, from incomplete respiration or metablising are a large reason we do not live for very long. So the more oxygen, the less likely you are to live longer. http://intelegen.com/nutrients/free_radica...and_aging_1.htm The heart of any creature is, unfortunately, limited to a set number of beats. This is why animals as small as a shrew live very short lives, their hearts beat a a very high rate. This is true of any creature on this planet, their lives are limited by the number of heart beats. Carbon dating isn't generally used in criminal cases, as human remains of a certain age are left to archeolegists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 This website says that it is mysterious that the planets don't crash into the Sun. There's a fountain of knowledge for you. Hahahaha, I love that one. The creationists will prolly also declare all physical laws as non-sense soon, or what? You might have to consider that we did live longer way in the past but probably not 900 years. If the earth had an overabundance of oxygen; more then we have now you could possibly perceive us living at least 200 years. There wasn't no pollution in the air or water and you have to consider that also. Plus they weren't eating the crap we eat today either. Not true at all. I have two biologicians as friends, they laughed when they read that. First of all it ain't true. A human became roughly 40 years max around that time of Jesus was supposed to exist. Also the bad hygienic influence back then had a multiple worse effect than todays air/water/whatever pollution. Also hygiene itself did improve which allows us to life longer. Claiming people became over 50 during that early time is simply bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by semifamous Yes, there were. Jesus' family went to Egypt for a while to hide from the King, who wanted to kill all the babies. Jesus' family was jewish. I would guess that they were white, and Egypt *is* in Africa, so yes. Thank you for your answer. Being Jewish does not mean white, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Originally posted by Bant and furthurmore.... how can you argue "well what was before the big bang?" well wheres gods mommy? i want their whole friggin family tree. mr and misses god, aunty god, uncle god, what did god evolve from? higher power monkeys?!! or has god just always been there? where is god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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