grimman Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 like presenting facts to a monkey. unless it's written in his holy book of bananas (that he can't read because he doesn't want public schools) it's not true. :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 16, 2002 Author Share Posted April 16, 2002 grimman: Have you ever heard of private schools or homeschool ? Oh, I see you are from Sweden. Perfect example of socialism. So you'd rather have the government to teach your kids, you don't want to have a choice to decide what's best for your kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Hey it all comes down to choice, public schooling in many countries is still largely popular, so lets not have a dig at a countries schooling approaches, and rather lets get back to discussing evolution and creationist theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimman Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 JimF: private schools are an OPTION. i'm sure you rednecks understand what AN OPTION is... i'm pro private schools, just FYI. but i also think losers should be given a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 like presenting facts to a monkey. unless it's written in his holy book of bananas (edited as nonconstructive) it's not true. I thought that evolution showed that we were all just a better breed of monkey . . . But seriously, I think that the majority of Christians understand that the Bible is a lot of symbolism, and should not necessarily be taken literally. It has been translated and retranslated from the original text and I see it as a guide post to how to live your life . . . like my hopes for my children . . . God had hopes for us. He knows that we will stumble at times and that is when we will need Him most. According to the New Covenant He asks only one thing for redemption, and that is that we believe in Him. What a deal eh? I don't think that most Christians would bash you or belittle your choices . . . Granted some would . . . but not most. I would only ask that you respond in kind. Take the high road, it will make you more credible. You may not believe, but that doesn't mean you should belittle. Attacking what we don't understand is a sign of ignorance . . . JMHO -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiej Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 I usually stay out of these things, but I thought I'd chime in here. Have any of you ever read any Zechariah Sitchen? Do yourself a favor and check out "The 12th Planet". You may or may not believe or want to believe what the book is about, however, it should make you think. I won't lay out the synopsis here, if I do you won't want to read it, it is pretty far out, but very interesting nonetheless. If you find it intriguing enough, there are 6 or 7 books in the series, each dealing with a different aspect of his beliefs. The first one, however, deals with the subject of this thread. I will say this, though. Almost every major religion on this planet is an "evolution" of the writings and beliefs of the Sumerians. Read it, trust me, you will find it, at least, interesting. Remember this, nothing is as black and white as the 2 "sides" of this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 16, 2002 Author Share Posted April 16, 2002 grimman: If you are so concerned about "losers" then abolish public schools and the money you save can go directly to the "losers" and then they can choose what kind of school is best for their kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 nothing is as black and white as the 2 "sides" of this argument thats gotta be one of the best sayings ive read in along time. Great line, can be adapted to many a situations. Well said or quoted fergiej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Originally posted by Osiris nothing is as black and white as the 2 "sides" of this argument thats gotta be one of the best sayings ive read in along time. Great line, can be adapted to many a situations. Well said or quoted fergiej Yes, Creationism is black and white, as any religious belief system is, in that they already have their answer, GOD DID IT, and their aim is to make everything fit this even if they have to make something up. Science, on the other hand, has questions and seeks to learn what the answers are. If the answers don't fit than they get new questions. Science is flexible where creationism isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimman Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 JimF: have private schools evolved from public schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergiej Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 NOS: You are right about that, but you missed my point. I wasn't talking about the beliefs themselves, but the fundamental (there's that darn word again...;) ) reasons for that belief. I was brought up as a Presbetarian (sp), but even as a little boy I could not fathom why anyone would take the Bible so dang literally. Did not "God" himself (herself?...:) ) say later on, " A day is unto a thousand years"? I know it's slightly misquoted, sorry, but you get the point. Even in Genesis (the original hebrew version, not the un-understandable King James version), God was used in the plural form. The Elohim created man in their image. Elohim is a plural form. HHMMM, this type of misdirection is used throughout the Bible. Read "The 12th Planet". You'll understand what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 HEy I know it wasnt the point you were making but NOS482 raises some good points, I mean religion, when ya put it like that is very unflexible, and science is always questing for the answers and understanding, seeking to unravel the mysteries of the universe. We as religions answer to everything is god. I got nothing agaisnt people wanting to believe in something, I think religion is good for that but they shouldnt been trying to explain things which just dont sit right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 I don't know that religion is so very black and white. In regard to the origin of man I would say yes. But in regard to God's desires or plan if you will . . . well that's why we have so many variations on ANY given religion. I don't think that all Christians have stopped asking questions, they just take some things on faith. Personally, I am a Christian and I love science. Anything that helps me understand better, the world in which I live, is fabulous. If some day, it is proven that there is no God, I will be the first to say, "Hey! I was wrong." But since I don't foresee that day ever coming to pass . . . I'm not losing much sleep worrying about it. As a Christian, I don't discount evolution. If it is some day proven I say fabulous. But I don't believe that Evolution and Creationism are mutually exclusive any more than I believe that God literally created Adam from dust and Eve from a rib . . . symbolism. Very well done, but symbolism for sure. One could argue that "Dust" is simply a metaphor for life bearing micro-organisms . . . and that a rib simply implies the same genetic material as Adam. I mean really . . . how would one explain that type of Biology to a person from the days when Genesis was authored? They lacked the required understanding to articulate it in terms that were understandable to the population. Who knows . . . not me that's for sure! But I do know what I believe. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 16, 2002 Author Share Posted April 16, 2002 Christian religion is definetely black and white. There is no middle road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Well Jim I would say that in your opinion that is so. But since I disagree with you, and I am a Christian, your statement is only true for you. I am living breathing proof that you're wrong as applied to all Christians. One of the reasons that I practice my Christianity at home, and not in Church is because of that inflexibility. Most (notice I don't say all) Churches tend to lay the blanket of their interpretation over everyone, rigidly espousing their particular brand of Christianity. I don't believe in that. If God gave us nothing else, he gave us free will. Each man's relationship with his Creator is his own, and not for another to criticize. I would never suggest that someone who's Christian beliefs departed from mine was wrong. Only that it was wrong for me. Each man has to decide for himself who He is. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:1-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Originally posted by fergiej NOS: You are right about that, but you missed my point. I wasn't talking about the beliefs themselves, but the fundamental (there's that darn word again...;) ) reasons for that belief. I was brought up as a Presbetarian (sp), but even as a little boy I could not fathom why anyone would take the Bible so dang literally. Did not "God" himself (herself?...:) ) say later on, " A day is unto a thousand years"? I know it's slightly misquoted, sorry, but you get the point. Even in Genesis (the original hebrew version, not the un-understandable King James version), God was used in the plural form. The Elohim created man in their image. Elohim is a plural form. HHMMM, this type of misdirection is used throughout the Bible. Read "The 12th Planet". You'll understand what I'm talking about. That maybe, but science is not a belief system, it is a method. Creationism is only a belief system with nothing real to back it up. BTW, the TV minister John Hagee says that the bible is the literal word of god and what it is says is what it is saying. The man is an arrogant fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elduderino Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Heres a couple of cool websites, the first is no doubt taken from some church sponsered school education booklet on science ;-) http://www.oz.net/~travis/sms/sms.htm followed by http://www.oz.net/~travis/sms/descent.htm And for some really cool arguments involving religion, etc............. http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenLin Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Sorry, Elduderino, but I can't really consider a personal web site dedicated to pictures of some guy's cat and the origin of man all that credible. :o How about a scientific journal not funded by a church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 TurdFerg: Are you really so naive. Do you really think that scientifc journal is not biased ? Certainly in regards to evolution they are. People will go to any length to undermine belief in the existence of God, scientists are not exception. I think you should read something more unbiased to learn the truth, you will be suprised how many frauds have been uncovered during the 150 years of evolution theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS482 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Originally posted by JimF TurdFerg: Are you really so naive. Do you really think that scientifc journal is not biased ? Certainly in regards to evolution they are. People will go to any length to undermine belief in the existence of God, scientists are not exception. I think you should read something more unbiased to learn the truth, you will be suprised how many frauds have been uncovered during the 150 years of evolution theory. Man, are you ever deluded. BTW, these so-called frauds have mainly been uncovered by real scientists. It's called peer review. You don't have this under cretinism since it is all fiction to begin with. No legitimate scientific journal would ever let religion, masquerading as science. in its pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icie Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 but one has to admit that any system coming from humans would be biased, within them instilled the emotions of the author. Thus, a scientific journal would of course be biased towards evolution. In fact, one could have doubts that the case for evolution is really as strong as many believe. You were told that, or you read it from somewhere. That doesn't mean its right. Some think of religion as one of the biggest hoaxes perpetuated in human history, but who knows? Science might be a hoax also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 So why do they still keep teaching all those frauds as facts in the public schools when they have been uncovered by "real scientists" a long time ago ? Why don't they remove them from the books ? You know why ? Because that's the only "evidence" they have for evolution and if they remove it there would be nothing to back it up. I think both creation and evolution are based on a belief. YOu can't possible prove either one. And that's why I think evolution, just like creation, should not be taught in schools at all. At least not as a proven fact. AS a philosophy yes, but as a proven fact ? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 icie: Christian religion can be backed up by real eyewitneses who actually died for what they believed. I wonder if evolutionists would die for evolution. Many miracles back Christianity up also. Ever heard of apparition in Fatima, Lourdes. Medjugorie ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elduderino Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Cheers, Terdferg. It's not serious, its a **** take of how most science is dumbed down and totally missunderstood by the masses. But thanks for taking your time and getting the humorous nature of the website. Icie, unfortunately scientific experiments can be reproduced by anyone and the results recorded. Religion on the other hand is based upon the belief that there is a god, without any evidence what so ever, it just expected that you believe. Far more human bias goes into religion than science. JimF, unfortunately the 'evidence' produced to back up religion is based on eye witless statements. Saying that something has happened and having no evidence, doesnt make it true. So what made God? Why has it done nothing to show its presence? Why would it expect everyone to worship it? Why would it let people commit murder in its name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeRider Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Why would it let people commit murder in its name? God doesn't allow that . . . people do. -TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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