how u feel bout the 4 canadian soldiers getting killed?


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Originally posted by devin2002

*****I don't have an account here, so my son let me use his after showing me this.*****

A. It was the Air Force, our Army has no planes.

B. The pilots were never informed of a training site.

C. During a flight over hostile ground a pilot must make his own final call. (this means when he found out about it being Canadians, I'm sure it ate him up real well)

D. Crap like this will always happen as long as there is a human factor in combat.

E. Don't say crap unless you have lived it! The problem with most reporters and civilians is they have no friggen clue about what goes on in combat. I bet you anything the fellow soldiers were upset that it happened but I guarantee the Canadian soldiers have no ill will towards ours.

Being killed by a friend is not as bad as by an enemy. For a friend will feel remorse, and an enemy feels pride.

Lt Col. Robert Halenn (U.S.A.F Ret.)

The pilot of an American F-16 fighter jet who dropped a 250-kilogram laser-guided bomb on Canadian troops in Afghanistan, killing four and wounding eight, had ignored orders not to fire, sources say.

The U.S. National Guard pilot twice requested and was refused permission to drop his ordnance after spotting tracer fire in a desert training area near Kandahar, where paratroopers of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry were on a live-fire exercise.

"When he saw tracer fire again, he bombed anyway," the source said.

Source here.

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I can certainly appreciate how the Canadians must feel over an incident like this. I can only say, as an American, that I share your loss and deeply regret the incident.

As a Veteran of the United States Air Force I can assure you that there is no finer organization, and incidents such as this one are not typical. I am certain, that the pilot was mortified to find out that he had unwittingly killed Canadians, our very best friends.

I would encourage you to take what is portrayed in the media with a grain of salt. They are often just as bad as the trollers here on Neowin. It's not that I doubt the incident occurred, but rather that the circumstances surrounding it are probably far more complex than the media reports indicate.

In Normandy, the US lost 29,000 of it's sons. That day 5,000 of our Canadian brothers were lost as well. I think it is a testament to the tools at our disposal today, that the casualties in Afghanistan can be tabulated in your head. I don't say this to diminish the gravity of the incident, but as a reminder that we have fought and died together before and lost Fathers, Brothers and Sons in numbers that were staggering in comparison.

My heart goes out to the families of these four brave men, who made the ultimate sacrifice in a place so far from home. Their sacrifice adds meaning to the red in our flags, and the peace we enjoy in our little corner of the world.

God Bless.

-TR

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That was good TR.

My dad had a point our militarys don't look at each other with disgust, so why is it when things like this happen we have to blow things out of porportion and argue?

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As with any story, it will take awhile to sort out the details. The CNN story paints a little different version than what was posted before.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/cent...nada/index.html

I think the key lines in this story are:

During the subsequent fly-over, the pilot requested permission to drop his weapon. A Pentagon official said his superiors denied permission unless the pilot felt he would be acting in self-defense. At that point, the pilot again reported ground fire, invoked his right of self-defense and dropped the laser-guided bomb, military officials said.

I added the italics.

It seem to me after reading these stories and a few others that it was a very big mistake with certainly no malice intended on the pilot's part. In combat, things can happen very quickly and people get very nervous. Errors happen because people aren't perfect. I think that the Colonel's words and TimeRiders' good words should be heeded.

Another key part in the story:

"The immediate response of this battle group has been outstanding, and their professionalism has been unparalleled," Henault said. "Every soldier in the theater of operations is a credit to the Canadian forces and certainly a symbol of strength in this country."

U.S. forces in the region echoed these sentiments.

"This loss is shared by our entire task force. Our hearts ache with yours as we continue to stand shoulder-to-shoulder against terrorism," said Col. Frank Wiercinski, a U.S. Army spokesman in Afghanistan. "The cost of this fight has been great, but our commitment remains greater."

Accidents happen in war, guys. It's easy to criticize when you've never been in the military and have never seen combat, never been exposed to how frightening combat can be. How soldiers have to often make split second life and death decisions. This certainly was a regrettable incident but i know one thing. I'm glad i'm not the pilot who accidently killed those canadians. I'm sure this is something that will haunt him until the day he dies. The guilt I'm sure he feels far outweigh anything that is said about him on this board.

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The guy who killed tham should be responsible for his acts.

This should be a lesson that US Air Force can not just get some trigger happy guy who will nuke whatever moves around him.

He is dangerous not only for the Foreign military help but alos for the US Army soldiers.

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A. It was the Air Force, our Army has no planes.

really? thanks for pointing that out. :cheeky:

B. The pilots were never informed of a training site.

lol, so?

i'm sure the american army is telling their allies eveything.

C. During a flight over hostile ground a pilot must make his own final call. (this means when he found out about it being Canadians, I'm sure it ate him up real well)

no comment, it was an idiot decision on his part, called it in twice, not taking fire.

D. Crap like this will always happen as long as there is a human factor in combat.

especially when you put a reservist in action like that.

E. Don't say crap unless you have lived it! The problem with most reporters and civilians is they have no friggen clue about what goes on in combat. I bet you anything the fellow soldiers were upset that it happened but I guarantee the Canadian soldiers have no ill will towards ours.

Being killed by a friend is not as bad as by an enemy. For a friend will feel remorse, and an enemy feels pride.

haha, i'd imagine if a canadian killed a bunch of u.s soldiers there would be a hell of alot more uproar then there is about this. you americans like beating things in to the ground, long as your not at fault. and i can say whatever the **** i want. you americans love your freedom of speech except when your on the recieving end.

and i don't care what you where or are in the army. signing your name doesn't mean a thing.

Major Twist, president of the u.s.a

see?

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Its good that International Court of Justice was created and is active since five days ago. Now everyone will be equal in front of the law.

I just dont get it why Bush is against it, and why is he not recognizing the existance of this court.

If his acts are so right and pro peace, why would he be afraid that some of his generals will go infront of the International Court of Crimes against humanity...?

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I can very well understand the various sentiments floating around and I can state from experience that even in "peace-time" there is always danger. Not too long ago a fellow trooper was in the Bosnia effort and they were fired upon several times. Much of the action never really gets to light. It seems that sensationalism is the name of the game. Although I no longer serve in the military my brothers do...Canadian, American, Brit...all are brothers.

We understand our duty, we are trained until our actions need little thought, your reaction to a situation always means a difference. Although the training is extensive, real combat reqiures an acceptance that chaos reigns, you have less than a second to react & counter. I am sure the pilot is deeply saddened as are all those involved from the "weekend warriors" to the highest ranking officers, but, aside from a public apology, there is not much to be done. Yes, the families of the wounded & KIA soldiers will be taken care of and our sympathy goes to them.

The public's support of our troops is so very important in any conflict. Lets show support for all those brave souls helping to preserve our way of life.

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Originally posted by WarBUCKs

First off, Canadians aren't fighting a war. They are merely Peace Keepers in a hostile environment.

hehe you call this a war? the big bad war on terrorism?

gimme a break, this is merely a manhunt that involves the military. if it was war why did you wait for the northren alliance to do all your dirty work? didn't want to risk american lives? what about all the nortren alliance soldiers that most likely gave up their lives so you could roll through their country?

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it was an accident, mistake etc... It was an error, not in any way shape or form an intentional act....

It was a tragedy and those soldiers died with honor, protecting freedoms that many take for granted everyday. I think the US owes the families of the victims a tribute of respect, and an apology for such a careless error,

but to say that America never admits their wrong doings, in this case, is appalling. Show more respect for the fallen...

Honor them, instead of taking shots at the US.

BB

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I simply love how some people here find it nice to generalize ALL Americans into one specific group. I for one am an American, and am tired of the bashing that people choose to dish out to my country. I can't see why a moderator doesn't take action against the people who are posting this rubbish.

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Originally posted by h71y6

Yes, friendly fire is expected in war... BUT.... considering how advanced the military is nowadays, it should not be that frequent. I mean, this one is just crazy. An F16 with LASER guided missle, with instructions by the control comm... flying over TRAINING ground? I mean from bullets in the battlefield, ok. But this is absurd!

The technology is highly advanced but remember it is the people behind them that are not. Anything can go wrong when humans make decisions.

I may sound cold-blooded but it's war time. Casualties are expected; whether they're friendly or not. If casualties happen, deal with it, then move on. I've dealt with it already.

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Originally posted by whybkuul

I simply love how some people here find it nice to generalize ALL Americans into one specific group. I for one am an American, and am tired of the bashing that people choose to dish out to my country. I can't see why a moderator doesn't take action against the people who are posting this rubbish.

i wonder why everyone in the world pretty much generalizes americans this way? americans are very good at generalizing populations.

after all i'm canadian, i must live in an igloo, use a dogsled, eat cariboo and live really close to toronto.

there are exceptions to every rule though, so if you found it offending sorry i guess.

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Originally posted by Tager

The technology is highly advanced but remember it is the people behind them that are not. Anything can go wrong when humans make decisions.

I may sound cold-blooded but it's war time. Casualties are expected; whether they're friendly or not. If casualties happen, deal with it, then move on. I've dealt with it already.

Good point tager, but human error should never be an excuse. The day we accept it as an excuse, it is the day everything will break down. The real question is, yes many of us who are just spectators have dealt with it, but have the families and friends dealt with it yet? We cannot just accept that these things are going to happen. Only in striving for perfection, can we do our best to minimize the chances and probabilities of such events from happening.

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I simply love how some people here find it nice to generalize ALL Americans into one specific group. I for one am an American, and am tired of the bashing that people choose to dish out to my country. I can't see why a moderator doesn't take action against the people who are posting this rubbish.

whybkuul:

The best thing to do is ignore it. Some people just hate . . . ya know? But if you respond, then they see that they are getting to you, which is the goal in the first place . . . take the high road and ignore that which is useless.

As my mother used to tell me, "You only have to deal with someone like that for a few minutes . . . they get to live with their feelings 24 hours a day."

Take care.

-TR

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Originally posted by whybkuul

I simply love how some people here find it nice to generalize ALL Americans into one specific group. I for one am an American, and am tired of the bashing that people choose to dish out to my country. I can't see why a moderator doesn't take action against the people who are posting this rubbish.

I am a MOD and I see no problems with the posts, they are only offering their condolences to the families of this horrible tragedy.

If you don't like what other users are posting ignore it

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Originally posted by Rudy

i think its pretty bad considering its not even our war....

I agree

if it were up to me since I'm an american I wouldn't let any other country on the so called battle field. that way we wouldn't have to worry about this type of stuff hearing how stupid america is and how we need to pay. but you know and I know that if the U.S said no you can't be there you would complain about that too. saying the U.S hogs all the wars.

sorry your country men died

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america asked for this alliance against terrorism, since contrary to what you may believe you can't just run into a country and squash it. they knew the risk the where taking by going into afganistan, could of caused a huge war against all of islam.

most countries out of respect for what happened helped.

i doubt anyone begged to send soldiers.

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Originally posted by twist

A. It was the Air Force, our Army has no planes.

really? thanks for pointing that out. :cheeky:

B. The pilots were never informed of a training site.

lol, so?

i'm sure the american army is telling their allies eveything.

C. During a flight over hostile ground a pilot must make his own final call. (this means when he found out about it being Canadians, I'm sure it ate him up real well)

no comment, it was an idiot decision on his part, called it in twice, not taking fire.

D. Crap like this will always happen as long as there is a human factor in combat.

especially when you put a reservist in action like that.

E. Don't say crap unless you have lived it! The problem with most reporters and civilians is they have no friggen clue about what goes on in combat. I bet you anything the fellow soldiers were upset that it happened but I guarantee the Canadian soldiers have no ill will towards ours.

Being killed by a friend is not as bad as by an enemy. For a friend will feel remorse, and an enemy feels pride.

haha, i'd imagine if a canadian killed a bunch of u.s soldiers there would be a hell of alot more uproar then there is about this. you americans like beating things in to the ground, long as your not at fault. and i can say whatever the **** i want. you americans love your freedom of speech except when your on the recieving end.

and i don't care what you where or are in the army. signing your name doesn't mean a thing.

Major Twist, president of the u.s.a

see?

Screw you and your thinking all Americans are the same, // Comment Edited

DEVIN2002

We don't accept that kind of language here. Please do not label anyone by the words you just said

No Racism, No Threatening, No Victimization or otherwise Hateful posts

<>

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Originally posted by Euphoria

Its good that International Court of Justice was created and is active since five days ago. Now everyone will be equal in front of the law.

I just dont get it why Bush is against it, and why is he not recognizing the existance of this court.

If his acts are so right and pro peace, why would he be afraid that some of his generals will go infront of the International Court of Crimes against humanity...?

Actually, only crimes committed after July 1 can be prosecuted by the ICC, as it has not come into force yet. So, those people who you mentioned, even if they had committed attrocities, could not be tried in The Hague.

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The biggest part that gets on my nerves was that those men didn't have to die. It's the fact that their families were waiting for them to come back. It's one thing to have pride in yourself because your husband fought for your country and put his life on the line for what he beliefs and loves in most... but a training accident? They were supposed to go home... that sucks...

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Sorry about earlier about "America" never wants to admit their wrong doing... What I want to say is the US Intelligence never want to admit their mistake...

I believe the soldier or that specific group of army should be held responsible for their allies. America can not wreak any more havoc with Canada. Bush takes his personal revenge too well...

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