Life on this planet... where from?


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As a Christian, I have no problem believing in the process of Evolution. I also have no problem with a belief in the teachings of the Bible. One of the probelms I see with the Bible and Christian fundementalism is the tendency to take it as a literal work. I believe that God created the earth in 6 days, but with an inability to define God, how can I define a "day" in his terms.

I think that when one considers the development of man at various points throughout the Bible it is easy to see why events in the Bible are explained the way they are. For example:

If you were to try and explain microbiology and DNA to a man even 500 years ago, he'd probably have a very hard time understanding something that cannot really be seen or touched . . . at least not in the conventional sense. So would it be such a stretch to say "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust?" Did we not, even in the theory of evolution spring from small particles . . . Is dust not a small particle that would be understood by the people who lived in Biblical times?

Ezekiel 1

21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.

23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.

24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.

25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.

26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

How would these passages from Ezkiel compare with a primitive man's description of an F14 Tomcat?

Now I wouldn't dare to imply that an F14 visited Ezekial, I only say this to illustrate a point . . . man at that time was less enlightned and any technology would appear as a miracle. His explainations of these events would seem odd in todays world.

I don't see the Bible as a literal work. I see it as a guide to the general principals that we should live our life by.

Did God create us? I believe so.

Did it happen as instantaneously as Gensis implies? I doubt it.

Is evolution an event inspired by God? I don't know, but I like to believe that.

Where did life come from? Good question!

Maybe maybe we were the result of genetic seeding by a spacefaring race. They knew that early on we would begin to ask this question so they gave us answers in a manner that would would accept and understand? So once the "experiment" had reached the proper stage they appeared before us as God or Jesus . . . given futuristic medical technology . . . maybe Jesus did rise after 3 days.

Either way, I believe that there is a kernal of truth behind Biblical teaching and as such, I accept the premise that we were created by a loving God, in his image, simply because it pleased him to do so. Now . . who is God? That's the compelling question. Some divine spiritual entity or space men? I don't know . . . nor do I concern myself with that question. Just believing is far simpler that trying to understand every jot and tittle.

Take Care Everyone.

-TR

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I like some of the Planet X theories, though they can get a little far fetched at times. I think it'll be interesting to see if any proof of intelligent life on Mars existed at one time (odd geometrical patterns in places, pyramids that mirror the Eqyptian pyramid formations, etc).

The distance between the planets and the sun changes very slowly over long periods of time, so it's possible that other planets were at one time in a position suitable for human habitation.

By the way, I think this thread should avoid religious shtuff, and stick to 'conspiracy-style' theories.

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*chuckle*

Joshie I understand your desire to prevent the thread from being closed because it gets out of hand . . .

However since the topic is where life on this planet came from, and that some 80% to 90% of the people on the planet believe in some form of Divine creation . . . keeping "religion" out of it is gonna be pretty tough.

A better suggestion is that we all act our age. If you disagree with a post, so be it, but couch your reply with tolerance and understanding.

The one thing that has been the downfall of every controversial subject on Neowin has been the method in which some people choose to disagree.

Stck to the subject and keep personalities out of it and everyone should be fine. There are a few billion people on this planet and the odds of us all agreeing are absolutely zero. So why not take a different tack. Instead of fighting over our disagreements, why can't we just listen to each other and at least try to understand the other person's view . . . even if . . . check that . . . ESPECIALLY if we don't share it.

I for one would hate to restrict my discussions to whether or not Mary Ann is hotter than Ginger . . . how 'bout you?

Take Care and Be Safe!

-TR

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Originally posted by Joshie

I like some of the Planet X theories, though they can get a little far fetched at times. I think it'll be interesting to see if any proof of intelligent life on Mars existed at one time (odd geometrical patterns in places, pyramids that mirror the Eqyptian pyramid formations, etc).

ah yeah.. i like that bit ! ... could kick off a whole new angle :paranoid:

btw... is that shuichi in ur avatar, Joshie ?? :ponder:

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Originally posted by ElGato

Some one once said something like "The simplest solution is always the correct solution".

Us humans tend to always look for the complicated answers.

but this person was a figment of sir conandole he was sherlock holmes charactor.

in real life the answer with the most proof is the correct answer

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Originally posted by grimman

TimeRider: 80-90%

right. NO, stop boosting "the stats".

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I rest my case.

;)

-TR

P.S. Adherents.com is an Internet initiative and is not affiliated with any religious, political, educational, or commercial organization.

Adherents.com is the 2nd most frequently visited general religion site on the Internet.

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Originally posted by werejag

but this person was a figment of sir conandole he was sherlock holmes charactor.

in real life the answer with the most proof is the correct answer

Ok, well, I tend to agree with a lot of the earlier posts saying that most people here don't have the qualifications to make an educated statement of the idea of creationism vs evolution vs anything else.

Unfortunately for the people who say that, I am a scientist that has the qualifications to make educated and enlightened statements on anything relating to the science of biology, microbiology, organic, and biochemistry.

I have a huge problem with the idea that "in real life the answer with the most proof is the correct answer." This is so far from the actual view of most scientists that I don't know how you could get farther from the truth. Scientists NEVER believe that whatever has the most proof is correct. We can either say "no, this is not the case" or "I can't prove that this is not the case" and that is all. We can NEVER prove anything... no matter how much evidence we have for the idea or theory.... thus we never assume whatever has the most evidence or support is correct.

I'm not flaming or bashing, but I just wanted to put out some facts before those who don't know what they are saying say something that is totally incorrect and we all get confused.

take care~~~

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Originally posted by TimeRider

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I rest my case.

;)

-TR

P.S. Adherents.com is an Internet initiative and is not affiliated with any religious, political, educational, or commercial organization.

Adherents.com is the 2nd most frequently visited general religion site on the Internet.

BTW, the numbers for the Christians is overinflated by nearly half a billion because you don't go from round 1 billion in 1978 to around 2 billion 20 years later when it took them nearly 2000 years to get to 1 billion (During the height of their power) and also concidering that Islam is the fastest growing belief system now and Christianity is stagnating,

It is still showing that the majority of the people in the world are non-Christian and this number is growing faster every year.

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Originally posted by TimeRider

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I rest my case.

;)

-TR

P.S. Adherents.com is an Internet initiative and is not affiliated with any religious, political, educational, or commercial organization.

Adherents.com is the 2nd most frequently visited general religion site on the Internet.

Well I do believe what the man said was:

"However since the topic is where life on this planet came from, and that some 80% to 90% of the people on the planet believe in some form of Divine creation . . . keeping "religion" out of it is gonna be pretty tough. "

He never said that Christianity was the only religion... last time I checked, 33+22+15+6+4+3 equaled 83% which surely falls within the range of 80-90%.

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Originally posted by NOS482

BTW, the numbers for the Christians is overinflated by nearly half a billion because you don't go from round 1 billion in 1978 to around 2 billion 20 years later concidering that Islam is the fastest growing belief system now and Christianity is stagnating,

I would be interested in your source material. However if you read Adherents, which is a really intersting site, they account for some of that by explaining that both the Soviet Union and China (which has an enormous Christian Population) attempted to eradicate religion and therefore accurate figures were hard to come by.

Be that as it may, this organization has no agenda to support or deny any belief, so I see no reason to doubt their figures.

-TR

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Originally posted by NOS482

Islam is the fastest growing belief system now and Christianity is stagnating

Actually, if you wanted to be even more correct, Mormanism... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... is the fastest growing religious group, even more so than islam, go figure.

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Originally posted by grimman

timerider: i can make one of those too. but that'd be "religious/blinded & atheists".

u know what the difference would be? i'd make it look more credible.

grimman . . .

Why the hostility? I have no problem with your world view. I have no desire to change it. I think that your post is a bit inflammatory and to continue down that path will contribute to the thread being closed.

Live and let live man!

That's the best policy.

Take care,

-TR

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I thought this was pretty cool too:

Top 10 Countries

With Highest Percentage of Atheists (1991)

Country - Percent Atheist

East Germany 88.20%

Slovenia 29.80

Russia 27.30

Israel 25.60

Netherlands 24.10

Hungary 23.30

Norway 14.90

Britain 14.00

West Germany 12.10

New Zealand 11.50

They say Europe has 41 million Atheists. More than any other continent. Sociologists could spend a lifetime trying to understand that! And why is East Germany so disproportionately high???

But that's off the subject, so I'll shut up now!!

-TR

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Originally posted by NOS482  

BTW, the numbers for the Christians is overinflated by nearly half a billion because you don't go from round 1 billion in 1978 to around 2 billion 20 years later when it took them nearly 2000 years to get to 1 billion (During the height of their power) and also concidering that Islam is the fastest growing belief system now and Christianity is stagnating,

It is still showing that the majority of the people in the world are non-Christian and this number is growing faster every year.

Just for information purposes, the world population has grown 49% since 1978. That's roughly 2 Billion people!

Check it out!

http://www.popexpo.net/eMain.html

Set the meter to 24 years and you'll see the growth.

-TR

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but this person was a figment of sir conandole he was sherlock holmes charactor.
... simplicity was also a driving force behind the likes of Einstein and Heisenberg. Both of whom discarded many "proofs" because they were far too complicated - and nature is simple.
in real life the answer with the most proof is the correct answer

... only for lawers ;) . [nanackle is absolutly correct]

Being in my last year of a Bioengineering/Philosophy double major - I also feel I have an appropriate amount of backgroud to discuss matters involving the philosphical implications of science, although I am not yet a "real" scientist.

Life on this planet? I like the alien penal colony theory.

I also wish we werent so homocentric. We puny humans are a very small part of life [as we know it]. In fact, I like to think of such large complex organisms as ourselves as mobile ecosystems of symbionts. Although not strictly correct by definition, it provides a much better heuristic perspective [iMO].

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the world population has grown 49% since 1978

Anyone see a problem here? STOP BREEDING !!!! :evil:

..or the question will be "Life on this planet... where did it go?"

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Originally posted by TimeRider  

Why the hostility?  I have no problem with your world view.  I have no desire to change it.  I think that your post is a bit inflammatory and to continue down that path will contribute to the thread being closed.

oh boohoo choirboy.

(ps, this is my post #666, how about that for a coincidence?)

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Originally posted by postertoad  

 

Anyone see a problem here?  STOP BREEDING !!!! :evil:  

..or the question will be "Life on this planet... where did it go?"

Personally, I love breeding... its one of my very favorite activities.

go figure....

I'm sure LOTS and LOTS of you will agree!

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Originally posted by werejag  

yes breeding is a great hobby! one i just love to do to create more "non-christians" on this earth.

You're in good company! Some 67% of the population is doing the same thing!

Best of luck to you.

-TR

;)

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Originally posted by nanackle  

Personally, I love breeding... its one of my very favorite activities.

go figure....

I'm sure LOTS and LOTS of you will agree!

not breeding, practising it however..... ;) :D

I believe that Europe has the highest amounts of Atheists in the world due to the fact that Evolution is taught in Science lessons as a mainstream subject and Religious Education becomes optional at around 15 in most cases, whereas i have heard that in America, quite a lot of the states teach Creationism over Evolution (however i have never been to school there so don't know about that - a mate told me).

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