Life on this planet... where from?


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Originally posted by Nick_Jones  

not breeding, practising it however..... ;) :D  

I believe that Europe has the highest amounts of Atheists in the world due to the fact that Evolution is taught in Science lessons as a mainstream subject and Religious Education becomes optional at around 15 in most cases, whereas i have heard that in America, quite a lot of the states teach Creationism over Evolution (however i have never been to school there so don't know about that - a mate told me).

Not in the Public Schools. However many Churches, the Catholic Church in particular, run private schools through the 7th grade . . . roughly 13 yrs old.

But the subject of any formalized religion is taboo in public schools, at least where I grew up. In Social Studies, the subject might have come up . . . but only as a consideration of a specific culture . . . not as an indoctrination.

-TR

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Originally posted by TimeRider  

I would be interested in your source material.  However if you read Adherents, which is a really intersting site, they account for some of that by explaining that both the Soviet Union and China (which has an enormous Christian Population) attempted to eradicate religion and therefore accurate figures were hard to come by.

Be that as it may, this organization has no agenda to support or deny any belief, so I see no reason to doubt their figures.

-TR

I used several list/fact books and encyclopedias from over a 20 year (1978 to 1998) period and the numbers just didn't add up, even including Russians, to what is currently being claimed. I think that many are from church records of people born into Christian homes but are no longer believers and from third-world countries where missionaries go and say believe in Christ and we'll feed and help you..

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Originally posted by nanackle  

Actually, if you wanted to be even more correct, Mormanism... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... is the fastest growing religious group, even more so than islam, go figure.

Mormons are still a denomination of Christianity, not a separate belief system. Say there is a new Christian sect with 1 member, and he converts someone to it that would be a growth of 100%, but as a whole it still doesn't change the fact that Christianity is stagnating.

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Originally posted by TimeRider  

Just for information purposes, the world population has grown 49% since 1978.  That's roughly 2 Billion people!

Check it out!

http://www.popexpo.net/eMain.html

Set the meter to 24 years and you'll see the growth.

-TR

And the vast majority of them non-Christian. Christians tend to live in first world nations with very low birth rates. If this continues than Europe will have 70 million fewer people by 2050.

I've also heard that if the current growth rate keeps increasing that in around 600 years or so we could literally fill the Solar System, but mostly likely there will be a big population crash long before that would be possible.

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Originally posted by NOS482  

Mormons are still a denomination of Christianity, not a separate belief system.

Or at least, they want you to think so....

(runs away)

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Personally, I love breeding... its one of my very favorite activities.

sure ... easy for us boys to say. ;)

Try sh*ting a bowling ball, then come tell us your thoughts on breeding. LOL

:D :D

.... you know what I meant.

Zero population growth is quickly becoming a necessity.

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Originally posted by Tai  

ah yeah.. i like that bit ! ... could kick off a whole new angle :paranoid:

btw... is that shuichi in ur avatar, Joshie ?? :ponder:

You betcha. That there's my Shuuichi. Ryuichi's a better role model, but...pink hair!

And paranoia can be fun. :D

Also, the reason I wanted to avoid religion is because it's already been done, talked about, beaten to death, and specifically because it *is* so popular around the world. It's something we've already heard. I thought it'd be cool if this thread poked around with some of the untold stories.

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NOS482:

At the risk of belaboring the point; Adherents uses data from both primary research sources such as government census reports, statistical sampling surveys and organizational reporting, as well as citations from secondary literature which mention adherent statistics. The Bilbliography list includes 429 different publications and 24 periodicals cited in their pages.

Now . . . I'm sure you're an intelligent guy . . . but in the absence of any verifiable source I'm sure you'll understand why I might have cause to question your assessment.

Also, I'm not sure why you're hung up on the Christianity numbers, since my original statement was related to all forms of divine faith, not just Christianity. Since 67% of all peoples are non-Christian, your comment about the growth of non-Christian faiths would be not only true . . . but obvious

Considering the vast size of the sample (i.e. the whole world), I would suggest that the margin for error is probably pretty small, plus or minus a few percentage points. Since the research pool is so large, even if one particular faith, Christian or otherwise were "padding" the numbers, the conspiracy would have to be extremely pervasive among different sects of that faith to impact the numbers to any significant degree. Since most sects argue like Neowinians . . . I have my doubts . . . I'm sure you understand.

If you search the web, as I did, I think you'll find that most if not all impartial sources have found figures roughly the same as Adherents.

The main reason it took until 1978 to reach 1 billion as you say, is because from year 1 until about 1750, the birth and death rates were so equal, that the population hardly grew at all! From 1750 until today the population has grown tenfold from about 700 Million to 6 Billion.

Now 1750 may seem like a long time ago to you and I, but it only accounts for a shade over 10% of the history of man since Biblical times.

United Nations projections show that, in the next 50 years, family planning will be widely used all over the world and birth rate would become universally low. Simultaneously, average life expectancy would reach at least 70 years. Population growth would then start to slow down until it stabilizes around the end of this century. Or so we can only hope!

None-the-less, I don't find 33% Christian to be an outlandish number. I would also suggest to you that of the 14% of the non-religious counted a certain percentage is deism and pantheism. While not conventional God worship, they do believe in creation and supreme "spirit" that is more in line with the forces of nature (Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Agnostics, who are neither believers or non-believers, make up the largest portion of the 14%. It is estimated that atheists number between 200 and 240 million, roughly 4% of the world population. Actually a relatively minor belief system all things considered.

Be that as it may . . . the topic of where we came from and where we are going is certainly a formidable one. One that I am quite sure we will not live to see the answer to.

Take care and be safe,

-TR

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Originally posted by Goalie_CA  

This is just as bad as the evolution thread, hell, its the same damn thing.

Really?

Geez with the exception of a post or two, I thought this was pretty civil. We've gone from "Where we came from" to scientific theory . . . alien origins . . . population growth . . .

No-one is swearing, no-one is name calling and above all no-one is trying to convert anyone to any dogmatic belief system. All I've seen for the most part is a group of articulate adults discussing philosophy with courteousy and respect.

Unless you're going to start something regretable, and I sincerely hope you don't, this thread is nothing like that one.

But . . . in the intrest of parity . . . what do you see as being similiar?

-TR

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Originally posted by TimeRider

NOS482:

At the risk of belaboring the point; Adherents uses data from both primary research sources such as government census reports, statistical sampling surveys and organizational reporting, as well as citations from secondary literature which mention adherent statistics. The Bilbliography list includes 429 different publications and 24 periodicals cited in their pages.

Now . . . I'm sure you're an intelligent guy . . . but in the absence of any verifiable source I'm sure you'll understand why I might have cause to question your assessment.

There is a vested interest in stating there there are more Christians than there truly are.

Also, I'm not sure why you're hung up on the Christianity numbers, since my original statement was related to all forms of divine faith, not just Christianity. Since 67% of all peoples are non-Christian, your comment about the growth of non-Christian faiths would be not only true . . . but obvious

I'm not "hung up" I just don't like distortions of the facts.

Considering the vast size of the sample (i.e. the whole world), I would suggest that the margin for error is probably pretty small, plus or minus a few percentage points. Since the research pool is so large, even if one particular faith, Christian or otherwise were "padding" the numbers, the conspiracy would have to be extremely pervasive among different sects of that faith to impact the numbers to any significant degree. Since most sects argue like Neowinians . . . I have my doubts . . . I'm sure you understand.

There really doesn't have to be any truly organized "conspiracy", it just happens that all of the sources are influenced by followers of Christianity in one degree or another. It would be the same if Islam were the "top" belief system (As it soon will be) in the world instead.

As an example when the books of the bible were translated, the scribes were trained in the Greek tradition and included that influence to their translations to the point where modern Christianity is more akin to ancient Greek mythology than to the original stories.

If you search the web, as I did, I think you'll find that most if not all impartial sources have found figures roughly the same as Adherents.

Maybe, maybe not.

The main reason it took until 1978 to reach 1 billion as you say, is because from year 1 until about 1750, the birth and death rates were so equal, that the population hardly grew at all! From 1750 until today the population has grown tenfold from about 700 Million to 6 Billion.

The most increase in population is not from first world nations where most Christians live, but in less developed nations where Christianity isn't the primary belief system.

Also, as regards to a decrease in population growth in developing nations through the UN's plan we all know human nature and that these plans will have to be impose by force against these people's will eventually once they catch on. And this still may not work as planned if China is any example. They abort female fetuses there over male one's.

Never underestimate the instinct to reproduce. All we do is about reproduction in one way or another. From impressing females to securing resources.

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NOS . . .

I still disagree with your interpretation.

But that's OK, it isn't important to agree on everything. What is more important is that we disagree like gentlemen and not children. I hear what your saying and even agree with some of it.

I guess we shall have to agree to disagree on the rest. :)

Never underestimate the instinct to reproduce. All we do is about reproduction in one way or another. From impressing females to securing resources.

Ain't that the truth!!!

-TR

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Originally posted by Joshie  

You betcha. That there's my Shuuichi. Ryuichi's a better role model, but...pink hair!

And paranoia can be fun. :D

Also, the reason I wanted to avoid religion is because it's already been done, talked about, beaten to death, and specifically because it *is* so popular around the world. It's something we've already heard. I thought it'd be cool if this thread poked around with some of the untold stories.

yeah.. well it is possible that planets can shift their orbits over the course of time from habital zones in proximity to a star, depending on of course whether such conditions are requirements for life.. and also its possible (as has been well debated) for molecular life of some desciption to survive in the vaccum of space in such bodies as a comet or asteroid, and possibly end up on another planet, thus interracting with that planet's biosphere.. but I dun wanna get into this too much... cause evolution around here can get rough at times...

anywayz.. for example of evolution... look at the pentium 4 :p :p :p things are just evolvin all the time, u know !!

pikaa pikaa, shuichi !!!!

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Originally posted by TimeRider  

NOS . . .

I still disagree with your interpretation.  

But that's OK, it isn't important to agree on everything.  What is more important is that we disagree like gentlemen and not children.  I hear what your saying and even agree with some of it.

I guess we shall have to agree to disagree on the rest. :)

Maybe you should a little closer look at the offical sources. There is a web site called www.religioustolerance.org which is basically the same thing as Adherants. Their numbers went from around 1.5 billion Christians one year and the next to around 2 billion. Something is not kosher here. :)  

Ain't that the truth!!!

-TR [/b]

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Originally posted by JimF  

TimeRider: The problem with the evolution theory is not only because it contradicts the Bible, but it also contradicts the science and the common sense.

And what happens if I'm not christian and I don't believe in what's written into the bible?

I don't want to flame, I respect everyone's opinion, but this guy is too bigot.

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As a open minded adult a few years ago, I looked at both Creationism and Evolutionism in detail, to try to find out which was the most likely to have occurd.

My Conclusion? Evolution. Because of fossils, we can actually see things evolve over time into other things, and many varieties of species - including us. We also understand WHY there evolved into the things they are today, due to certain adaptations.

In this forum, I have read many things, and on a web-page DrDino.com, read about how "many have been brainwashed by evolutionary theories", and how Evolutionism in the same as Communism.

I have a VERY christian friend, and he believes Communism is the perfect society, as everyone is equal. Im not botherd about such things, but it shows what Christianism is, a matter of opinions. After reading the bible, many of its teachings can be interpreted in many ways.

One of the main things that get me, is that if there was a God, who created him? Was he lonely before we came along?

IMHO, after studying it for years, it seems more likely that there is no supreme being/God/whatever if you will.

And I refer people to my Babel-Fish....

Ok, lets think of this argument in the form of the Babelfish...

Ok, God says " I refuse to prove that I exist, for my people should have faith, and without faith, I am nothing"

But Modern day Atheists say:

"Oh, but Jesus was a dead-giveaway wasnt he? The Fact that he exists, (the son of GOD) proves that you dont"

And God says "Oh, I hadnt thought of that" and vanishes away in a puf of logic.

So, if you believe in God, and Jesus, then they cant exist.

*Awaits Flame*

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Originally posted by JimF  

TimeRider: The problem with the evolution theory is not only because it contradicts the Bible, but it also contradicts the science and the common sense.

How does evolution contradict science?! It IS science!

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[flame on]

religion is nothing more then a crutch for the pathetic masses to prop themselves up with when things get to hard for them. they just blame eveything on god.

stop posting threads about this crap. join the debate team or get a life. if you wanna hump bibles all day long go ahead, don't push your ideas on others. you will NEVER win.

[flame off]

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sorry, but for the past 2 weeks there have been way to many of theese threads.

they are nothing more then flame magnets and should not be on this forum due to the fact that nothing is EVER resloved in these threads, all they do is **** poeple off.

politics and religion have there place and time. this forum is not one of them. its for computers and news, not flame wars about personal opions.

anyways that my opion on all this recent crap.

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Originally posted by JimF  

TimeRider: The problem with the evolution theory is not only because it contradicts the Bible, but it also contradicts the science and the common sense.

common sense is much like the bible everyone knows it, but few have enough knowledge make sense of it.

jimf,

what your problem? no one is listening to your dooms day cult propaganda. The problem with the bible not only does it contradicts itself, but it also contradicts Real knowlege and the common sense.

one quick question have you ever posted here on neowin anything other that bibble tripe? i bet that you have yet to ask anything about computers!!!!

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Originally posted by Obraxis  

Ok, lets think of this argument in the form of the Babelfish...  

Ok, God says " I refuse to prove that I exist, for my people should have faith, and without faith, I am nothing"  

But Modern day Atheists say:  

"Oh, but Jesus was a dead-giveaway wasnt he? The Fact that he exists, (the son of GOD) proves that you dont"  

And God says "Oh, I hadnt thought of that" and vanishes away in a puf of logic.  

So, if you believe in God, and Jesus, then they cant exist.  

*Awaits Flame*

Ok, this is NOT a flame on what you said, but if you are not a Christian and merely have Christian friends, then how could you truly know much about Christianity. God does not refuse to prove that He exists, in fact He has proven his existance over and over and over again to numerous people, groups of people, societies, etc etc etc.

And Jesus did say that those who had faith in Him without even seeing Him were more blessed than those who had seen physical proof of him and His works, so this doesn't contradict at all.

I mean, come on, use your head a little and think about it...

take care~~~~

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