Apple falsely accuses Aqua-based sites??


  

68 members have voted

  1. 1. Apple falsely accuses Aqua-based sites??

    • I bought a Mac after using an Aqua Skin.
      4
    • I own a Mac and PC, use skin to familiarize the two
      7
    • I was or am going to buy a Mac, due to use of skin
      19
    • I am no longer going to buy a mac, due to Apples actions on skin sites
      34
    • I have or am going to sell my mac based on Apples actions
      4


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Eth3l; And you're right too. Apple probably won't pursue litigation against anyone; they know that a nice little legal notice is usually enough to stop people from ciopying their interface.

My whole point is is simply this; If Apple were to take these people to court, they could run them into the ground through legal fees alone. It's happened way too many times before, and unfortuantley seems to be a very accepted legal tactic here in the U.S.

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Originally posted by Eth3l  

Second, the strength of Apples design is not under fire.  using icons Ja50n made on my PC does lower the value of the icons design on a mac.  I am not confused by the use of the icons, I use a PC with mac icons, I do not htink I am using a mac.

thank you...

and.. FYI...

it's J A 4 5 0 N

everyone... forgets the 4..... Y?

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Originally posted by superbeast  

Eth3l; And you're right too. Apple probably won't pursue litigation against anyone; they know that a nice little legal notice is usually enough to stop people from ciopying their interface.

My whole point is is simply this; If Apple were to take these people to court, they could run them into the ground through legal fees alone. It's happened way too many times before, and unfortuantley seems to be a very accepted legal tactic here in the U.S.

If Apple really wants to make the mistake of taking Mac users to court for making Mac styled web-pages on Mac computers.. let them...

they will reap the benifits.. of loosing a Large percent of Mac users..

If you make a web-page.. on a Mac, about Mac, it's going to look like a Mac... is Apple trying to say that they are the ONLY ones who can have a Mac web-page.. ??

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Apple lawyers have told us that we (the Windows skinning community) make Mac OS look bad.. and that we detract from the sales of Mac OS.. thus hurting Apple...

No... It's made me wanna buy a MAC

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Superbeast -

Dont worry about the legal fees. There are always young attorneys like myself who would do this pro-bono. I sure would.

good comments though.

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it seems to me from my observations that they are only making people remove stuff that has trademark names or logos (e.g., mac, apple, osx, apple logo, mac logo, etc.)

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no eth3l i understood exactly what you were saying. I'm saying that you keep bringing in copyright copyright copyright and that isn't just the entire issue. They might not have gotten a copyright for it but the point is that it falls under trade dress which does protect look and feel.

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Originally posted by Ja450n  

If Apple really wants to make the mistake of taking Mac users to court for making Mac styled web-pages on Mac computers.. let them...

they will reap the benifits.. of loosing a Large percent of Mac users..  

If you make a web-page.. on a Mac, about Mac, it's going to look like a Mac...  is Apple trying to say that they are the ONLY ones who can have a Mac web-page..  ??

I hope your right, but from what I've seen of the Mac community [WARNING - massive generalization alert!], they would whole-heartedly support Apples pusuit of those using Apples interface. Mac users seem to blindly follow Apple in the fashion of the most dedicated religious zeolot, throwing common sense to the wind. [Generalization over, thank you, and please return to your homes]

But that's just my opinion.

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Originally posted by disciple  

it seems to me from my observations that they are only making people remove stuff that has trademark names or logos (e.g., mac, apple, osx, apple logo, mac logo, etc.)

good point...

apple is very specific on their web-site...

if you want to use the Apple logo.. apple name or any of (and they have a list) their copyrighted/trademarked names/logos

you MUST provide the needed copyright notification..

it's not that hard to do....

and.. they also ask that you link to the products page..

(if you have a quicktime logo.. you have to link to Quicktimes page, apple logo, link to apple store.. and if osx, link to the OSX page)

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Originally posted by Eth3l  

Wicked Kitten -

Trade Dress is part of copyright.

seriously and truly, what law school are you in where you don't know the difference between trade dress law and copyright law?

There are things that aren't protected under copyright that are indeed protected under trade dress so I'd suggest that you go look up Two Pesos vs Taco Cabana. Trade dress falls under trademark, not copyright

now, not only are you not a lawyer or an attorney but you are a law student dispensing legal advice in a forum which as a student you should know could result in you never becoming a lawyer and in fact get you thrown into jail.

It's fine and dandy to tell people the basics about it but quit telling them what they should do when it could end up getting them ****ed in court based on your advice.

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Two Pesos vs, Taco Cabana! OMG, how funny, something I know something about! How could I have forgotten?

Wickedkitten sums up the Apple copyright situation very nicely with this case, let me give you the basics in laymans terms;

There was this fantastic Tex-Mex cantina here in Houston for years, right off of the 610 Beltway. Incredible food, fun decorations, nice big open patio to hang out and have a few cervazo's with your friends... Taco Cabana was a truly original resturaunt!

Then in the early 90's, everyone here in Houston thought they were expanding under a different name; Two Pesos. Same decor (down to the jalapeno christmas lights), same menu, close to the same layout -> yet done in a smaller fast food enviroment.

Turns out Two Pesos was ripping Taco Cabana. And they were doing it almost nation-wide. This poor little cantina was havng it's entire image taken from it and commercialized.

Well, long story short, Taco Cabana sued the pants off of Two Pesos. In the end Taco Cabana literally owned all the new Two Pesos resturants. (I forget how many, but it was over a hundred+). It was literally hundreds of millions of dollars of resturaunts that Two Pesos had built...just handed over to Taco Cabana.

According to community gossip about the case, it was the jalepeno christmas lights that won Taco Cabana the case. But that's just local folklore.

The point is; don't rip people off. You'll lose your ass!

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Fist - If you go back and read my posts you will notice disclaim any advice as being my sole opinion and not legal advice, and also request that anyone in this position seek their own counsel.

Before you make unsubstantiated claims like you did in your last message about me going to jail . . . get all the facts.

Second - Law Students givign opinions, or dispensing legal advice is not a crime punishable by jail time. Nor would I or any other law student represent anyone, we physically cannot. Once Ja540n got counsel that counsel would take the case. Additionlly that counsel would not listen to the advice of an unknownon on a NeoWin messageboard.

TRADE DRESS

Well I am familiar with your two pesos case, and lets clarify your Trade Dress:

Trade dress is regulated by ? 43(a) of the Trademark Act of 1946 (Lanham Act), which provides that "[a]ny person who ... use in connection with any goods or services ... any false description or representation ... shall be liable to ... any person ... damaged by [such] use.>

So to have a cause of action based in trade dress, you must have:

1) A person using a good or service

2) in connection with

3) any false description or representation

4) shall be liable to any person who is damaged

Now remember Wicked Kitten, if you read any of my posts, fromthe beginning I have spoken of damages, that Apple needs to be damaged. Furthermore I said that the problem is people trying to pass their stuff off as Apple's, i.e. calling their icons OSX or AQUA icons. If they did that, it would likely be consideredusing a false description or Representation>

Wicked Kitten you and I clearly differ on this. And I think Ja540n has already decided a course of action. I have read your two pesos case - where did you her about this obscure case anyway, you being in England?

Lets remember that what two pesos stands for is not the defintion of trade dress, but rather that where Trade Dress is inherently distinctive, there is no need to prove secondary meaning to prevail on your claim.

Also that the P in that case was DAMAGED - i.e. LOST SALES to the D. This is an esential element of of any claim raised iin Copyright, trademark, Trade Dress, any type of tort action: THe PMust show damages>.

IMHO - there are no damages when someone posts icons they made on their webpage.

I hope you read all of this post so when you decide to comment on it you get it right.

Again, anyone in this position should seek the advice of an attorney.

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i can remember hearing that microsoft was forcing some msn communities to remove images back when win xp just came out because i think they didnt want any msn communities to bear the windows xp logo on them

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Originally posted by Goalie_CA  

You forgot to add, now that I have an aqua skin, I won't need Apple.

HA !

That's just silly.. so.. what..

you get an Aqua "SKIN"...

and you can magicly run all OS X programs ???

and how bout a Working DOCK.. ?

or Menubar ?

Aqua-skins hardly qualify for means NOT to by a Mac...

okay... Apple sales have been up..

they Can't even keep their IMacs instock...

i highly doubt that they have any grounds to prove that we have hurt their sales...

AppleSkins on Windows.. for the most part.. gain converts...

i was using a Copland (os 8) styled skin back in WB 1.1...

and that is one of the reasons i pursue the purchase of a mac...

and...

Furthermore I said that the problem is people trying to pass their stuff off as Apple's, i.e. calling their icons OSX or AQUA icons. If they did that, it would likely be considered using a false description or Representation

Aqua-sites have always..

Stated.. that Apple owns rights to Aqua

Skins and downloads are FOR windows...

that available skins.. ARE NOT the real Aqua.. but a look alike.. for the Windows platform...

NO money has ever been asked for...

if you compare the CLAIMS of Apple's lawyers.. as to what they THINK we are doing.. and what we are REALLY doing... they are completely OPPOSITE...

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Aqua-sites have always..  

Stated.. that Apple owns rights to Aqua  

Skins and downloads are FOR windows...

that statement right there is what would get you ****ed in court as you are basically stating that you know Apple owns the rights to aqua and you are making unauthorised windows versions of it.

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To prevent dilution of famous marks, however, a suit need not involve confusion. Mere usage of a trademark may be a violation if unauthorized.
Second - Law Students givign opinions, or dispensing legal advice is not a crime punishable by jail time. Nor would I or any other law student represent anyone, we physically cannot. Once Ja540n got counsel that counsel would take the case. Additionlly that counsel would not listen to the advice of an unknownon on a NeoWin messageboard
In the united states it is illegal to give legal advice if you are not a lawyer and you are not technically in any capacity even known as a lawyer until you pass the bar exam.
Trade dress is regulated by ? 43(a) of the Trademark Act of 1946 (Lanham Act), which provides that "[a]ny person who ... use in connection with any goods or services ... any false description or representation ... shall be liable to ... any person ... damaged by [such] use.

So to have a cause of action based in trade dress, you must have:

1) A person using a good or service

2) in connection with

3) any false description or representation

4) shall be liable to any person who is damaged

1. person

2. who has made

3. anaqua> theme

4. and has violated apple's trademark and copyright

just the same as you have said so I don't see why you're bothering arguing about the point. Based on those 4 facts they have broken trade dress and trademark law, period.

Also that the P in that case was DAMAGED - i.e. LOST SALES to the D. This is an esential element of of any claim raised iin Copyright, trademark, Trade Dress, any type of tort action: THe P Must show damages.

IMHO - there are no damages when someone posts icons they made on their webpage.

I would suggest you go read a copy of the berne convention, you do not have to have any monetary loss to collect damages in a copyright or trademark dispute, all you have to show is that your copyright or trademark has been willfully violated.
Wicked Kitten you and I clearly differ on this. And I think Ja540n has already decided a course of action. I have read your two pesos case - where did you her about this obscure case anyway, you being in England?
When you take a copyright class over here you learn about copyright cases from all over, I guess that doesn't happen in America. By the way Scotland isn't in England.
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1) A person using a good or service

2) in connection with

3) any false description or representation

4) shall be liable to any person who is damaged

1. person

2. who has made

3. an aqua theme

4. and has violated apple's trademark and copyright

those don't line up... sorry...

POINT 3....

"Any FALSE description or representation"

that's not what AquaThemes are..

if we tried to sell them as being OS X.. or being the REAL aqua.. for mac..then.. you would have a point..

we have not violated the copyright.. due to fair use...

What OS are you running.. BTW ??

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Originally posted by BroChaos  

so what's the latest?  is anybody actually planning on taking a stand?  if i had a site, i would.  :)

yes.. a stand...

just wait..

all i will say is...

"i am closely reviewing Apple's CopyRights, reviewing what exactly is entailed in said copyrights.. and looking for a way that the Cross Platform community.. and apple can both be happy.."

and you can quote me...

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Originally posted by Ja450n  

1) A person using a good or service  

2) in connection with  

3) any false description or representation  

4) shall be liable to any person who is damaged  

1. person  

2. who has made  

3. an aqua theme  

4. and has violated apple's trademark and copyright  

those don't line up... sorry...

they do in fact line up when you take the fact that you are using the term aqua theme which is an apple trademark which you have violated. I won't address trade dress violation cos its already been covered.
POINT 3....

"Any FALSE description or representation"

that's not what AquaThemes are..

if we tried to sell them as being OS X.. or being the REAL aqua.. for mac..then.. you would have a point..

are you not reading what you are typing? you don't have to sell it for it to be a violation. I suggest you go read the berne convention and a copy of the DMCA as well

we have not violated the copyright.. due to fair use...
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified in that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

did you make a direct copy of the aqua interface? no. Are you making it for criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research? no. Did you ask permission from Apple to make the themes? no.

That is the only way that you can possibly claim fair use and if you did make a direct copy you'd be in violation of copyright and trademark. as you did not ask permission before you did it.

Copyright law says that (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

What OS are you running.. BTW ?? [/b]

osx 10.1.4 and windows xp pro

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