costanza007 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 do you believe in god because you are christian or are you christian because you believe in god? they're very different. 585147058[/snapback] This is a good point, but even Satan believes in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamz Veteran Posted December 22, 2004 Veteran Share Posted December 22, 2004 This is a good point, but even Satan believes in God. 585147071[/snapback] i don't believe in either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordSouron Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 yep I just use exploits and free hd loaderlets me do everything I need without opening the ps2 585146435[/snapback] yeah i beleve in GOD i pray but not everyday :happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costanza007 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 i don't believe in either. 585147078[/snapback] This interests me; what do Eastern Philosophies offer by way of a supreme being? I guess not much, by your existential claim. Just wondering, I don't know much of those philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph3412t3h13 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 has anyone realized that we have actually had a half-decent conversation without flaming i applaude thee and about satan: is he gods enemy or are they just two different paths that people can go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph3412t3h13 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 yeah i beleve in GODi pray but not everyday :happy: 585147085[/snapback] WTF????? PS2????? i think u quoted fromt he wrong thread buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgindrup Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 and about satan: is he gods enemy or are they just two different paths that people can go on? 585147094[/snapback] A fallen angel created by God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_M Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 dreamz, first to you. I am a Christian and I believe in God. You must believe in God, the Trinity, and his son, our Lord Jesus Christ, to be a Christian. Profess faith, which means to say you believe in him, and keep that faith until you pass away and are with him in heaven for ever and ever. Next, to the post starter. I don't think your stupid, just mis-guided in the ways of the world. Believe me, there is a God, a living God, and he loves you, whether or not you love him or accept him. And your statement about what you would say to Jesus Christ is most sickening. You are either very young and mis-guided or you are of age and Very mis-guided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 and about satan: is he gods enemy or are they just two different paths that people can go on? 585147094[/snapback] It is my understanding from what I learned in religion class and church (according to Christian beliefs) that Satan was once God's right man so to speak before he was cast out for challenging him. Since that time Satan has resented this and tries to preverse God's teachings. So I guess you could say it is both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph3412t3h13 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 And your statement about what you would say to Jesus Christ is most sickening. You are either very young and mis-guided or you are of age and Very mis-guided. 585147118[/snapback] hmmmmmmmm well u know judging by the fact god loves me i think he would forgive me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yert* Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 im an anarchist who believes that believing gives false hope when it comes to religionMY OPINION PLEASE NO FLAMING 585091702[/snapback] Anarchist doesn't mean that. It's a person who opposes organized government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_M Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 And yes, as tgindrup said, Satan is a fallen angel, who if I remember correctly, tried to dis-thrown God and take his place. He was sorely mistaken, and resides in Hell forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph3412t3h13 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Anarchist doesn't mean that. It's a person who opposes organized government. 585147153[/snapback] yes weve established that 11 pages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamz Veteran Posted December 22, 2004 Veteran Share Posted December 22, 2004 This interests me; what do Eastern Philosophies offer by way of a supreme being? I guess not much, by your existential claim. Just wondering, I don't know much of those philosophies. 585147093[/snapback] well, be sure to separate existentialism from eastern philosophy. they're different and have different arguments. if you want some good existentialist literature, read: the myth of sisyphus - albert camus essays in existentialism - jean-paul sartre. in this book, pay close attention to "existentialism and humanism." for them, there is no god, no appeal to anything outside of human experience. we are forlorn, as they say, existing in our own ways. our existence comes before our essence, and we are free to make of ourselves what we will against the landscape of nothingness. as for eastern philosophies, it depends on which ones you look at: -taoism, there is no "god" in the sense of a supreme entity, but a tao, which means way, literally, sort of like a natural serenity. you can't equate that with a human-like entity that is omniscient, omnipotent, etc. read "i ching" and "tao te ching" for more info. -buddhism, there is no "god." some types of buddhism denounce "god" in the western sense (it was discussed on this board sometime earlier), while others make no mention of it, but hold no space for it in the belief system. -zen, follows along with buddhism. not all religions or philosophies preach the existence (and necessity) of an all-powerful, all-knowing superhuman, and i resent the supposition that a rational being must accept one that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MateoGWJ Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Read it until you see the truth behind your shadowy past and into a bright, new, and exciting Christian future.Everyone has different opinions and several can and will be expunged with my words above. We all need Jesus, plain and simple. 585146920[/snapback] Wow, way to go john, alienating all the followers of Allah and Judiasm with that last line. Just because you and I bought the whole christian mythology wholesale doesn't mean we all need jesus. There are other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_M Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 To the post starter, once again. You are correct, if you profess faith in God and Jesus Christ, and ask for your sins to be forgiven, it will happen. That is apart of prayer. You should try it, it's a most gratifying sensation to be able to communicate ones feelings and needs to ones maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 (edited) This is in the Bible. The President of the United States believes it, many members of our government believe it, and I do as well. That's great and all, but a religion doesn't gain credibility because of who believes in it. I not only believe it because I was born into a Christian family and am a Pastors kid, I believe it because I've seen the other side of people. The side that lacks Gods embrace, the side that goes on day to day thinking they are enough for themselves, and the side that thinks there is no God. Are they scared to believe, are they worried about acceptance in today's world to be shut in a closet about God and never face the fact that they need him? We probably won't know and it does make me sad that I will never be able to see these people in paradise. You seem to be painting with an awfully broad stroke here. You're saying that people can't get through life without thinking, "there's a God that loves me up there in Heaven". I've made it 23 years so far, and I'm doing ok. My parents brought me up as a Catholic. Church, CCD, communion, confirmation, the whole shebang. After confirmation, I was allowed to make my own decision on whether to continue down that path or not. I chose not to. Does that make me a bad person? I mean, I have never felt the presence of God in my life. Anyways, I got through school and college and now I have a well-paying job. I live my life ethically and I think I have a pretty strong understanding of wrong and right. I do treat others how I wish to be treated for the most part, and I care about those close to me. I think doing the right thing is worth doing for its own sake, not because God would smite me if I did otherwise. I don't lead a good life because it will offer me life everlasting in paradise after I pass, I lead a good life because doing so makes me content, and it's a lot better than leading a 'less than good' life. I don't need any religion to tell me that. This is my opinion, and the opinions of all my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. And yes, we also have different opinions, that's why we have different denominations, so what I have said is pretty much a generic belief among us, as I can understand it from visiting most of the other denominations. What about non-Christian religions? Islam, Judaism, hinduism, buddhism, confucianism, taoism, etc? Do these people get to go to Heaven, or are they heathens for not believing in the one true God and Lord Jesus Christ? If the latter, don't you think they'd feel the same about you? I mean, do I believe in the Father, Son & Holy Spirit? God & The Messiah? Vishnu, Brahma & Shiva? Allah? Monotheism? Polytheism? So, before I leave you all with these facts above, I will ask you to question your current non-Christian ideals, and ask yourself, will you see me in paradise, because unfortunately, a lot of you won't. One can have Christian morals and ideals without being a Christian. Religion and being a good person are not mutually exclusive. If you've read all of this, then there might be more of a void in your life than I thought. And there is one way to fulfill it, a nice little 5 letter book I like to read, also known as the Bible. Even from the first pages it offers help on life's tough non-Christian questions. "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth," even the first passage offers one of the biggest answers. So go out and get a copy and have the time of your life reading it, because time spent with God, whether in prayer or reading, is time not wasted. I've read the Bible. On my own time, no less. It's a good read, but it didn't change my life... There was an episode of House M.D. the other day and House had a good quote. There was a sister in the hospital with a rare disease and she had gotten to the point where she just wanted to 'leave it in God's hands'. She said if it was God's will to take her, then she was willing to go. House refused to let her die and felt she was just using God as a way to escape and not face the music. One line he said stuck with me. He told her, "You may have all the faith in the world, but when you cross the street, you still look both ways". **EDIT** (found the quote) Here's another good quote I'm glad I found again: I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. Edited December 22, 2004 by Jack31081 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1kashur Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I believe in god, and I call him Allah. You might call him something else. I need Allah, plain and simple. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph3412t3h13 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 To the post starter, once again.You are correct, if you profess faith in God and Jesus Christ, and ask for your sins to be forgiven, it will happen. That is apart of prayer. You should try it, it's a most gratifying sensation to be able to communicate ones feelings and needs to ones maker. 585147192[/snapback] CAN U STOP TALKING LIKE A PRIEST!!!!!!!!! OI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 You are correct, if you profess faith in God and Jesus Christ, and ask for your sins to be forgiven, it will happen. That is apart of prayer. You should try it, it's a most gratifying sensation to be able to communicate ones feelings and needs to ones maker. 585147192[/snapback] Then explain this to me, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. During treatment she had a 2 strokes and a heart attack. So she went to church (she also went every week and was very religious) and asked a priest for spiritual guidance and help. The priest turned to her and said she must have did something very wrong to offend God for him to punish her like that. He also said she was beyond spiritual help and that her soul will go to Hell to be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamz Veteran Posted December 22, 2004 Veteran Share Posted December 22, 2004 What about non-Christian religions? Islam, Judaism, hinduism, buddhism, confucianism, taoism, etc? Do these people get to go to Heaven, or are they heathens for not believing in the one true God and Lord Jesus Christ? If the latter, don't you think they'd feel the same about you? I mean, do I believe in the Father, Son & Holy Spirit? God & The Messiah? Vishnu, Brahma & Shiva? Allah? Monotheism? Polytheism? 585147201[/snapback] you're right. since these are all beliefs, we can't put more emphasis on one over the other. a buddhist could easily say that christians, by being so persuaded by their doctrine, are actually blind to a different belief and are perpetuating their own existence in this world of suffering. how about that? it's just as equivalent, just as arbitrary, but of course, buddhists never say anything like that. they don't preach like that, they don't warn, they don't say their religion is the best (as though this were a contest we want to win by being "right," whatever that means). but even then, i don't care if i go to heaven or not (assuming i believe in one, which i don't). i don't need an appeal to mythology to assuage the vagaries of my present existence. i don't need a religion system to give me hope, morals, or community. i don't need doctrine to teach me how to think. i can do all of that on my own, and i don't need people telling me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costanza007 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 not all religions or philosophies preach the existence (and necessity) of an all-powerful, all-knowing superhuman, and i resent the supposition that a rational being must accept one that does. 585147176[/snapback] Yeah, I guess I'm just interested in the take on "religion" apart from "philosophies"... kind of a dictionary v. conventional semantic explanation. You can resent that all you want; it makes no difference to me or you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_M Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 To dear little Jack: This is an opinions poll, and I have said all this is my opinion, but it's shared by more and more people everyday. I respect everyone's opinions and thoughts. To you all religions are right and wrong at the same time, whether you'd like to admit it or not. Hence, you live a good life, but one without being a Christian anymore. Also to a1kashur: I'm proud of you to come here and post, most excellent. Even if you don't believe in Christianity it is your God given right to believe what you will. Back to the post starter once again: I am not a priest, and since I'm not Catholic, it's rather hard to be one. Technically, I'd be a Pastor or Reverend in my denomination, not a Father or Priest, as I believe the Catholic church calls them. You were close though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrar Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 eh hard to believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Then explain this to me, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. During treatment she had a 2 strokes and a heart attack. So she went to church (she also went every week and was very religious) and asked a priest for spiritual guidance and help. The priest turned to her and said she must have did something very wrong to offend God for him to punish her like that. He also said she was beyond spiritual help and that her soul will go to Hell to be punished. 585147241[/snapback] $20 says that priest was Catholic. Catholicism is insane like that. Everything's your fault and you're always sinning. Everything you do is a sin and you'd better repent or your ass is going to hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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