dreamz Veteran Posted December 22, 2004 Veteran Share Posted December 22, 2004 Yeah, I guess I'm just interested in the take on "religion" apart from "philosophies"... kind of a dictionary v. conventional semantic explanation.You can resent that all you want; it makes no difference to me or you. 585147257[/snapback] yeah, i'm very critical of the distinction. i regard philosophy more highly than religion, and i feel that religions, prior to their religionization and dogmatization, were actually quite relevant philosophies, and thus, modes of knowing. and it does make a difference because it affects me when people insinuate as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yert* Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 yes weve established that 11 pages ago 585147160[/snapback] Well maybe you should know what a word means before you use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 To dear little Jack:This is an opinions poll, and I have said all this is my opinion, but it's shared by more and more people everyday. I respect everyone's opinions and thoughts. To you all religions are right and wrong at the same time, whether you'd like to admit it or not. Hence, you live a good life, but one without being a Christian anymore. 585147280[/snapback] You still haven't told me how you feel about people that believe in religions that don't center around a Christian God. I'll make it easier this time. Let's lump Christianity, Judaism and Islam all together since their Gods can all be construed as the same entity. So, that said, what about those that believe in polytheistic religions or monotheistic religions with a different God? What's to become of them in the afterlife? I don't imagine they'd get into Heaven, since they don't believe in God. Obviously they can't go to their own version of Heaven, because that would mean there are multiple 'correct' religions, and that just can't be. So what's the deal? What about the ancient Greeks and Romans? Were they all just misguided for believing in so many gods? If that's the case, then isn't it equally plausible that in 4000 years people will read the Bible as a 'mythology' book and wonder how so many people could have believed in such farcical tales? P.S. - I'm trying to have a civilized conversation with you here, so don't go belittling me with your "Dear Little Jack"...ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1kashur Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 John-M, thank you for your kind words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 $20 says that priest was Catholic. Catholicism is insane like that. Everything's your fault and you're always sinning. Everything you do is a sin and you'd better repent or your ass is going to hell! 585147282[/snapback] He was Catholic, Roman Catholic to be percise. I just find it sad that while faith is important to many people, their teachings are quite contradictory. On one hand they say God is all loving and forgiving, and with the other they say if you so much look at a girl and think shes cute you're going to hell for having lust in your heart (just an example). It was these kind of teachings that cause me to loose faith since it seemed no matter what I did I was going to Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costanza007 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 yeah, i'm very critical of the distinction. i regard philosophy more highly than religion, and i feel that religions, prior to their religionization and dogmatization, were actually quite relevant philosophies, and thus, modes of knowing.and it does make a difference because it affects me when people insinuate as such. 585147286[/snapback] Modes of knowing what? I want you to explain it to me because I'm curious. I sense a bit of sharpness in your replies. Unlike John, I don't respect everyone's opinions. I respect their right to have it, but I disagree with very many beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Modes of knowing what? I want you to explain it to me because I'm curious. I sense a bit of sharpness in your replies.Unlike John, I don't respect everyone's opinions. I respect their right to have it, but I disagree with very many beliefs. 585147357[/snapback] I believe dreamz is referring to how philosophy (and religion when it first came about) are ways of understanding the world around you...helping to explain what doesn't seem to make sense. Remember the stories "How the rhino got its skin" or "How the giraffe got its neck"? In an abstract sense, religion can be thought of as a very complex version of those stories. Look at the ancient Romans. There were many gods that they used to explain everything around them. It was Apollo that pulled the sun across the sky. Zeus was responsible for lightning. Poseidon controlled the raging seas. Now we know that Earth revolves around the sun, electrical charges result in lightning, and the moon and currents control the oceans...so we no longer have a need for such a religion. I'm sure dreamz will chime in with a more detailed explanation, but I felt like adding my 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb264c Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Well, John_M, I respect your belief, but as I'm sure you're aware of, you've got some serious defending to do, considering this is your god: HE CREATES EVIL: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7). EVIL COMES FROM THE LORD: "it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam. 16:23). "it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul..." (1 Sam. 18:10). "the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul..." (1 Sam. 19:9). "Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubles thee" (1 Sam. 16:15). "the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubles him" (1 Sam. 16:14). HE LIES: Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant..." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel..." HE DELIVERS A MAN (JOB) INTO SATAN'S HANDS: "The Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6). HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT OR ALL POWERFUL: "the Lord was with Judah; And he drove out the inhabitants of the mountains; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron" (Judges 1:19) HE CAUSES INDECENCY: God orders that the king of Assyria is to "lead away the Egyptian prisoners, and the Ethiopian captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt" (Isaiah 20:4). HE ORDERS STEALING: "...and ye shall spoil the Egyptians" (Ex. 3:22). "...and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God" (Ezek. 39:10). "As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies" (Deut. 20:14) HE MADE FALSE AND UNFULFILLED PROPHECIES: In Gen. 15:13 God said to Abraham, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they shall be enslaved and mistreated 400 years." Acts 7:6 says the same. But Ex. 12:40 says, "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was 430 years." God's prophecy failed by 30 years. HE CAUSES ADULTERY: "This is what the Lord says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel" (2 Sam. 12:11-12). HE KILLS REPEATEDLY: "there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the 250 men that offered incense" (Num. 16:35). "the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died" (Num. 21:6). "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound and I heal..." (Deut. 32:39). HE ORDERS KILLING: "ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. And five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put 10,000 to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword" (Lev. 26:7-8). "the Lord said to Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said to the judges of Israel. Slay every one his men that were joined to Baal" (Num. 25:4-5). HE SUPPORTS HUMAN SACRIFICE: Ex. 22:29-30 says, "Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for 7 days, but give them to me on the 8th day." HE ORDERS CANNIBALISM: Lev. 26:29 says, "Ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughter shall ye eat." HE SANCTIONS THE BEATING OF SLAVES AS LONG AS THE SLAVE CAN ARISE AT LEAST A DAY OR TWO AFTER THE BEATING: Ex. 21:20-21 says, "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." HE ORDERED THE COOKING OF FOOD WITH HUMAN FECES: Ezek. 4:12 says, "Eat the food as you would a barley cake; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement as fuel." HE INTENTIONALLY GAVE OUT BAD LAWS: Ezek. 20:25 says, "I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by..." HE ORDERS THE KILLING OF CHILDREN: Ezek. 9:6 says, "Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women..." and 1 Sam. 15:3 says, "...slay both man and woman, infant and suckling..." Over and out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamz Veteran Posted December 22, 2004 Veteran Share Posted December 22, 2004 Modes of knowing what? I want you to explain it to me because I'm curious. I sense a bit of sharpness in your replies.Unlike John, I don't respect everyone's opinions. I respect their right to have it, but I disagree with very many beliefs. 585147357[/snapback] well, many religions claim to possess explanatory power, which means they aim at acquiring certain truths about the world, existence, and all the contingencies that make life what it is. western religions, especially, place emphasis on this explanatory power, but then they make a strange move. they take up allegorical stories that defy explanatory power in the way they originally wanted, and then they go off and extract prescriptions for human action! in a sense, i view philosophies as being descriptive, for the most part, and modes of knowing truth. for me, morality comes largely from a social consciousness, from which emerges the conditioned responses we elicit within our social sphere. in this, there is no appeal. it's a way of living purely, intellectually, and with confidence without appeal, and that is what i like. there is a difference between respecting people's opinions and agreeing with them. one can disagree, yet retain a respect for the other's position. and one should always respect another's beliefs even in the face of such disagreement. it's about being civil, and in the sense of knowing truth, the only available recourse we have without stepping up and becoming arrogant and professing more than we truly know. i should also hope that i possess some sharpness after my many years of study! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Then explain this to me, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. During treatment she had a 2 strokes and a heart attack. So she went to church (she also went every week and was very religious) and asked a priest for spiritual guidance and help. The priest turned to her and said she must have did something very wrong to offend God for him to punish her like that. He also said she was beyond spiritual help and that her soul will go to Hell to be punished. 585147241[/snapback] Thats very sad. The religion of Catholics and Christians are very different. I hope your mom is doing ok I will pray for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Thats very sad. The religion of Catholics and Christians are very different. I hope your mom is doing ok I will pray for her. 585147548[/snapback] Um, isn't "Christian" just an umbrella term to cover Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, and all other religions that believe Jesus Christ was our savior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 (edited) Um, isn't "Christian" just an umbrella term to cover Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, and all other religions that believe Jesus Christ was our savior? 585147659[/snapback] Well Im a united pentecostal apostolic. Its even more different then all of them. I have not been to church or read the Bible in a long time so I cant really remember what the other religions believe. Most of them are the same in some and many ways. I know Christians dont believe in praying for the dead like Catholics do. Also Christians dont pray to Marry like Catholics do. Christians also dont go to a priest to ask him to ask God for forgiveness. Thats all I can recall its been a long time so i might be off. Edited December 22, 2004 by amdme3200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Well Im a united pentecostal apostolic. Its even more different then all of them. I have not been to church or read the Bible in a long time so I cant really remember what the other religions believe. Most of them are the same in some and many ways. I know Christians dont believe in praying for the dead like Catholics do. Also Christians dont pray to Marry like Catholics do. Christians also dont go to a priest to ask him to ask God for forgiveness. Thats all I can recall its been a long time so i might be off. 585147722[/snapback] Actually, it was a rhetorical question. Catholics, Lutherans, and United Pentecostal Apostolics are all Christians. You all have different systems, but you all believe in Jesus Christ as your savior, and that makes you all Christian. your post would be dead on if you placed "other" before each instance of "christians" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_INk Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Well Im a united pentecostal apostolic. Its even more different then all of them. I have not been to church or read the Bible in a long time so I cant really remember what the other religions believe. Most of them are the same in some and many ways. I know Christians dont believe in praying for the dead like Catholics do. Also Christians dont pray to Marry like Catholics do. Christians also dont go to a priest to ask him to ask God for forgiveness. Thats all I can recall its been a long time so i might be off. 585147722[/snapback] Catholics are Christians... :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno_Funky Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 seriously DONT KNOW :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Actually, it was a rhetorical question.Catholics, Lutherans, and United Pentecostal Apostolics are all Christians. You all have different systems, but you all believe in Jesus Christ as your savior, and that makes you all Christian. your post would be dead on if you placed "other" before each instance of "christians" 585147806[/snapback] Wrong and in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Catholics are Christians... :sleep: 585147822[/snapback] Also wrong so so wrong. :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_INk Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 (edited) Also wrong so so wrong. :sleep: 585148220[/snapback] nope. i dunno why u get off on saying catholics aren't christians- becuase they are. :rolleyes: Edited December 22, 2004 by Dark_INk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stezo2k Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 No i don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Wrong and in many ways. You dont even know what a United Pentecostal Apostolic means its nothing like Catholics. And just because we believe in Jesus dose not make us alike just in that one thing makes us alike. I dont pray to Marry or pray for the dead. So dont tell me other cause im not a Catholic or a Morman or whatever. 585148211[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Wrong and in many ways. 585148211[/snapback] Also wrong so so wrong. :sleep: 585148220[/snapback] A list of all Christian denominations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations A page about Christianity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity A quote from said page: Christianity has been grouped into three main branches: Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Still yawning at our ignorance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 nope.i dunno why u get off on saying catholics aren't christians- becuase they are. :rolleyes: 585148238[/snapback] Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post-It Note Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Here's a question: Why does Satan have to be evil? How do you know that he hasn't changed? Why would the Satan want the people under his 'rule' to be tortured and in pain? If Satan hated God, then why would he be doing exactly what the bible said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdme3200 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 A list of all Christian denominations:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations A page about Christianity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity A quote from said page: Still yawning at our ignorance? 585148263[/snapback] No just yours. :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_INk Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 585148259[/snapback] catholics are still christians. presbytarians are christians. blah blah blah are christians- (u do realize there are many diff christian churches don't u- just as there are many diff bhuddist 'churches', etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts