"Doom3 can do it too"

[Shyatic]

Well, after finishing HL2 I went back to play a few levels of Doom3 again and was astonished by how the Doom3 graphics were so much superior.  I'm sorry Valve fanboys, but although HL2 is a better game, it looks like a Saturday morning cartoon compared to Doom3.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am more excited about future games that will use the Doom3 engine than games that will use Source.

585204975[/snapback]

Graphics do not equal engine... please keep that in mind. Doom3's engine is impressive due to lighting effects and combustion/particle algorithms. Source is impressive due to stability and low impact gaming (ie, low requirements).

I am personally however, excited to see games that come out with either engine. In the end however, it's not the engine that makes the game, but rather the gameplay... so if there's a fun game in the works and it HAPPENS to use one engine or the other... who cares. It will still be fun, right?

[Mx]

Quite impressive, but now, can someone try to port over Doom 3 to the Source engine. :) lol

[kingbob]

Quite impressive, but now, can someone try to port over Doom 3 to the Source engine.:)) lol

585205095[/snapback]

Good idea, then maybe I could enjoy it. :woot::

[StuRReaL]

to be perfectly honest the Doom3 engine isn't going to be able to cope with outdoors, that video was very very slow. The shadowing is nice but thats about it :s

The Source engine is much morse scaleable and runs smoothly on every system i've used it on, where as dynamic lighting is nice your never gonna get it running very nicely. for indoors niceness then use Doom3 and its dynamic lighting glory for outdoors then use Source or one of the Unreal engines.

[StuRReaL]

Graphics do not equal engine... please keep that in mind. Doom3's engine is impressive due to lighting effects and combustion/particle algorithms. Source is impressive due to stability and low impact gaming (ie, low requirements).

I am personally however, excited to see games that come out with either engine. In the end however, it's not the engine that makes the game, but rather the gameplay... so if there's a fun game in the works and it HAPPENS to use one engine or the other... who cares. It will still be fun, right?

585205001[/snapback]

To a point you might be right, however HL2 felt more realistic in movement and the characters, and more to the point all there were no seams down the heads in HL2 :p

[memNOC]

there's nothing shocking about this video.. it just shows the engine's capability of dynamic lighting, feature that HL2 also has..

and people, how can you complain the vid looks and runs terribly? it's a 15fps XviD, so it runs at -- you guessed it -- 15fps! also, it isn't supposed to look good, mainly to show off the full lighting capabilities of D3.. that's why there are no textures on the buildings and such..

i don't see the point of the video, since it proves nothing, really.. we all knew how dynamic lighting behaved in D3, and daylight is expected to work in the same way..

i'm a much bigger fan of HL2's pure physics engine.. that just blew my mind, and it gave gaming a whole different perspective.. i can't wait how future games will look and behave, and certainly, HL2 was the stepping stone of this new generation.. much like HL1 was previously.. id software has always been around these technological advancements and has played a large roll in their own way.. however, Valve was always the first in introducing a whole new take on gaming..

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Nevermind I found a mirror in that thread.

Edited December 31, 2004 by DirtyLarry

[[SST]SLAYER]

Really.

I don't see a lot of vehicles, multiplayer, physics-oriented gameplay, friendly AI, scripted sequences, character animation, display of different environments in Doom 3  :rofl:

585202267[/snapback]

There were a few friendly AI's and the physics engine is just fine but that wasnt the point of DOOM III, It was one of the original shooters they remade a SHOOTER! HL2 Rocks But you dont buy doom III for anything else except to blow away bad guys!

[kachie]

i bought doom 3

not impressed

how can you!?

put lower graphics

[Laughing-Man]

I like how you guys assume that the Source engine is a better engine then the Doom 3 engine just because of your experience playing HL2 and Doom3. So quick to judge.

When Quake 3 came out it seemed like Quake 3 was not a very good "outdoor environment" kind of engine. Almost all the maps were indoors. Look at the games that spawned later from the Quake 3 engine: RTCW, MOHAA, Call of Duy, Jedi Knight Series, etc. They sure had a lot of outdoor environment maps in those games using the Quake 3 engine, when Quake 3 itself did not demonstrate its outdoor environment capabilities very well. I'm sure John Carmack knows what he was doing when he created the Doom 3 engine and in the right company's hands I am sure they could make environments equal or possibly better then what we have seen in HL2. You are prematurely going against the Doom 3 engine, when id software by far has the most experience in making game engines when compared to Valve.

Edited December 31, 2004 by jmole

[Stalk3r]

Hmm the video said "Highly detailed environments", imo the whole level was just so simplistic and looked kind of plastic + all the textures were really blurry from a distance..so I'm not impressed :sleep:

[notuptome2004]

Halife 2 has alot more features for Realizm for 3d then d3 will ever have go here and read what the engien has . oh and befor i post i have to say 1 thing High Dynamic Range Lighting.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/sourcelicense...inefeatures.htm

[finality]

With quality textures that would be really impressive... but it looks like they took Unreal I's textures.

[notuptome2004]

Now of course Via Steam they can write new code new features for the Halife 2 engine and update the HL2 source engine . that will make agood use tho cause in 2 years when we are running like Geforce 7 based cards or higher they can write new Effects that can be implamented in to HL2 Via steam witch could include higher Water quality higher detiald everythiing.

[[SST]SLAYER]

Hmm the video said "Highly detailed environments", imo the whole level was just so simplistic and looked kind of plastic + all the textures were really blurry from a distance..so I'm not impressed  :sleep:

585205419[/snapback]

<Test video released> get it? they are showing the way they are going most companies dont have the balls to show you that level of stuff in development for just this reason people come away with all kinds of dum ideas of what the finished product will be like personally I would love to see a mixture of the two engines :woot:

[JiveMasterT]

gotta say, i wasnt impressed. there wasnt a whole lot going on there and that dude didnt seem to be getting all that good of a frame rate. i have an athlon xp 3000 and a geforce 6800 gt oc and i cant run doom 3 at the max settings with a decent frame rate, but i can with hl2, and hl2 looks just as good.

[Shyatic]

gotta say, i wasnt impressed.  there wasnt a whole lot going on there and that dude didnt seem to be getting all that good of a frame rate.  i have an athlon xp 3000 and a geforce 6800 gt oc and i cant run doom 3 at the max settings with a decent frame rate, but i can with hl2, and hl2 looks just as good.

585205649[/snapback]

Both look good... but Doom3 has a few tidbits that make leaps and bounds over any graphics engine, namely their lighting algorithms, and their combustion/particle algorithms. You may not see it yet, but believe me, that's something Valve must be jealous of. I think id is pretty jealous of Valve's implementation of physics though... that's uncannily good stuff :)

[Shyatic]

Now  of course Via  Steam they can write new code  new  features for the Halife 2  engine and update  the  HL2 source engine .  that will make agood  use  tho cause in 2 years  when we are running like Geforce  7 based cards  or higher they can write new  Effects that can be implamented in to HL2  Via  steam  witch could include higher Water quality higher detiald  everythiing.

585205545[/snapback]

They won't do that, it's pointless to do it for anybody... most people will have beaten HL2 by that point, nobody's going to replay the game to get nicer graphics. The 'engine updates' i'm talking about are those that are made available to the developers, the purchasers of the engine. If a company buys the engine, they usually buy it AS IS. So if Valve makes some big changes, that company WILL NOT GET THE CHANGES without paying for them. With id Software, if they make engine changes... the companies that bought the engine will GET THEM FREE. There's a huge advantage to that when designing a game, since you will get the latest technology for a singular cost.

Either way, both engines are impressive and we'll see how it pans out when new games are launched.

[notuptome2004]

ok well if they make big changes to the engien they will allow updates via steam and at the same time those updates may be incorperated into the Game engine at Vavle for devolpers to have up to date code and i would imagine all devlopers would get the updates anytime they want without exstra charge.

[[SST]SLAYER]

Both look good... but Doom3 has a few tidbits that make leaps and bounds over any graphics engine, namely their lighting algorithms, and their combustion/particle algorithms. You may not see it yet, but believe me, that's something Valve must be jealous of. I think id is pretty jealous of Valve's implementation of physics though... that's uncannily good stuff :)

585205755[/snapback]

I would agree I think most people who play doom either dont care or just dont know whats behind the lighting and particle effects, Maybe it's becuase a lot of people just dont have the hardware to show it properly and becuase HL2 was so good in scailability they just assume that it's a better engine like wise doom III just did not have a gravity gun maybe some who complain about dooms Physics should play it again and manipulate the mop and bucket in the first bathroom or knock over a few more crates .

Try this right at the begining when you start move the hazard cones into the doorway before you go to your first check point and watch the cones interfere with doors working " IN A CUT SCENE "

[Shyatic]

I would agree I think most people who play doom either dont care or just dont know whats behind the lighting and particle effects, Maybe it's becuase a lot of people just dont have the hardware to show it properly and becuase HL2 was so good in scailability they just assume that it's a better engine like wise doom III just did not have a gravity gun maybe some who complain about dooms Physics should play it again and manipulate the mop and bucket in the first bathroom or knock over a few more crates .

Try this right at the begining when you start move the hazard cones into the doorway before you go to your first check point and watch the cones interfere with doors working " IN A CUT SCENE "

585205817[/snapback]

Agreed. Most people here are gamers, and gamers only. Being something of a geek, and involved with games in more than just a 'player' fashion.. I am impressed by both engines, but by Doom3's more.

[Shetland]

I must say i prefer the Source Engine over the D3 Engine, but both games i put down quite soon after i got them, i dont know why.

I just love the TEXTURES in half-life2 they are so realistic, i think they used photography, but still, its amazing, and thats what made the graphics for me.

although thats coming from a texturer, so i am slightly biased towards great texturing, btw i AM one of those people that looks out for what method of particles they use etc, so.. yeah.

[ANova]

Both look good... but Doom3 has a few tidbits that make leaps and bounds over any graphics engine, namely their lighting algorithms, and their combustion/particle algorithms. You may not see it yet, but believe me, that's something Valve must be jealous of. I think id is pretty jealous of Valve's implementation of physics though... that's uncannily good stuff

Source has a very complex particle system as well. Remember the Manhacks?

As for the dynamic lighting, what makes you think Source isn't capable? Take a look at Unreal Engine 3, it has superior graphics to both that of Doom 3 and HL2. Yet, it is also based on the same technology behind Source. Anyone who is familiar with SM2 and above will be able to achieve the same level as UE3 in Source with a bit of modifying and programming. That's what's so great about programmable pixel and vertex shaders. It opens up a whole new level to developers because of the ease of use. What does UE3 use for it's effects? Dynamic lighting, dynamic HDR (HL2 already has this albeit Static atm), simulated Radiosity and dynamic soft shadows. All implemented through pixel shaders. It also incorporates a method which allows for high quality textures, based on high poly (4 million+) source material reduced to 4k without quality loss. Guess what, Source was the first to implement this and is also very capable.

The 'engine updates' i'm talking about are those that are made available to the developers, the purchasers of the engine. If a company buys the engine, they usually buy it AS IS. So if Valve makes some big changes, that company WILL NOT GET THE CHANGES without paying for them. With id Software, if they make engine changes... the companies that bought the engine will GET THEM FREE. There's a huge advantage to that when designing a game, since you will get the latest technology for a singular cost.

Are you sure Valve won't do the same? Have they specifically stated this?

[NeoXY]

ok...the bottom line is this...

Took Doom 3...Ran it on a ATI 7000...Looks like a game out of the 1990s....

Took Half Life 2...Ran it on a ATI 700...Looks as impressive as ever.

Yes...I admit that Doom 3 engine can do it, but however, the source engine is much more capable than the Doom 3 engine....

Edited December 31, 2004 by dark kyuubi

[mattmatik]

ok...the bottom line is this...

Took Doom 3...Ran it on a ATI 7000...Looks like a game out of the 1990s....

Took Half Life 2...Ran it on a ATI 700...Looks as impressive as ever.

Yes...I admit that Doom 3 engine can do it, but however, the source engine is much more capable than the Doom 3 engine....

585206479[/snapback]

Well, gee whiz, we all might as well go find some legacy hardware then based on that test.

And what exactly do you mean by "capable"? Capable of what? This whole thread, save for maybe 4-5 really informative posts, has been generalized. Obviously you didn't read Hercules' post about the difference between an engine and looks of a game.