uniacid Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwakui Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Where does one take an MCSE class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 if you want good $ you must aim for higher than mcse. cisco, sun or linux is hwere good cash is :) many companies don't look at your certs. i've seen a few mcse certs who read 2 books, passed but then couldn't do **** in the field. from my experience 4 year college would be a waste. i looked at their program for BS and it was true BS;). i said f' it and 2years of college+2years experince is better than 4years of college. good experience is the best thing you can get on your resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwarren Veteran Posted May 12, 2002 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2002 Mxxcon is right. Experience is the best. This place i am doin my courses at gaurantees work experience and a Full time job within 3 months of completing the MCSE :D In the UK its less competative over computing jobs so University isn't a main thing for computing over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 MCSE is a good start....Don't try to study for the exams on your own though, you will just waste your money when you don't pass the exams, or if you manage to study enough to just pass the exams you will not be able to perform your job, you will need prior experience anyway. Notice I said exams as in plural. You have to pass several exams to get an MCSE. Also, don?t listen to anyone that tells you that an MCSE is worthless. It is a good cert to have under your belt...trust me none of these linux/unix only geeks can't even begin to understand how to deploy and operate a Windows network because most are too closed minded and won't educate themselves. Windows 2000/.net is a very robust network operating system, a lot like Novell. It will continue to gain market share. Enroll at an accredited college that offers a program for MCSE or any other program you are interested in...Some of these places will also offer an associate or bachelors degree in computer science along with the MCSE program. After you finish, get as many other certs like Cisco, Linux, SANs to make yourself as marketable as possible. Also network your self with people in your field and industry...this will guarantee you many, many options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoNuTjC Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by spanky MCSE is a good start....Don't try to study for the exams on your own though, you will just waste your money when you don't pass the exams, or if you manage to study enough to just pass the exams you will not be able to perform your job, you will need prior experience anyway. Notice I said exams as in plural. You have to pass several exams to get an MCSE. Also, don?t listen to anyone that tells you that an MCSE is worthless. It is a good cert to have under your belt...trust me none of these linux/unix only geeks can't even begin to understand how to deploy and operate a Windows network because most are too closed minded and won't educate themselves. Windows 2000/.net is a very robust network operating system, a lot like Novell. It will continue to gain market share. Enroll at an accredited college that offers a program for MCSE or any other program you are interested in...Some of these places will also offer an associate or bachelors degree in computer science along with the MCSE program. After you finish, get as many other certs like Cisco, Linux, SANs to make yourself as marketable as possible. Also network your self with people in your field and industry...this will guarantee you many, many options. b> Talking about taking the words right out of my mouth.... VERY WELL SAID!!! I couldn't agree with you more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyD Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 im not saying its worthless...what im saying that its good to have if its coupled with experience. of course the catch 22 is how do you get experience if you dont have a job in IT? this is why schools try to push the mcse and other certs as a way of getting a job. that might have been true 2 yrs ago but not anymore. i already went through a mcse course and it was a waste and from what i hear most of the other schools around here are just the same. if you can get yourself into a program where they teach more than just win2k then cool...just dont go paying for just mcse. honestly i think anyway can pass with books and setting up a small network at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by spanky Also, don?t listen to anyone that tells you that an MCSE is worthless. It is a good cert to have under your belt...trust me none of these linux/unix only geeks can't even begin to understand how to deploy and operate a Windows network because most are too closed minded and won't educate themselves. Windows 2000/.net is a very robust network operating system, a lot like Novell. It will continue to gain market share. After you finish, get as many other certs like Cisco, Linux, SANs to make yourself as marketable as possible. b> now isn't that closeminded statement. you have no idea how much more complex *nix certs are. w/ windows you can figure out almost everything just by trying. not so in nix. why do you think there are so much more mcse than nix? not becuase there are more servers but becuase you can get them buck a dozen.also getting "as many certs as you can" is very RETARDED. it will show your employer that you dont' know what you want and only collect those papers to frame them on your shelf. concentrate on one specific field. i'm not saying ignore everything else, but defenatly don't collect those certs like some pokemon trading cards. having bunch of certs and no experience is plain stupid. work a few years, get some experience and then you'll know what to do and won't have to rely on "professionals" here on neowin:roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedkitten Veteran Posted May 12, 2002 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2002 Well from personal experience a MCSE is a good thing to have. I'm almost 24 and already I have had 18 years of computer experience. I'm not talking about playing games on them either. My dad from about the time that I was born has had me hooked on electronics. He bought me my first gaming console when I was 3 which was an atari and around the same time he taught me how to hook up the vcr to the telly and how to dub tapes. When I was 6 I started programming in basic on an apple IIE and making my own games, sure they weren't anything special but by the time I was 12 and I started high school I was basically teaching my computer class as I knew more than the teacher did. During the entire time from about 8-14 I was repairing the computers at his job because the other soldiers thought it was cute that a girl knew so much about computers and though I'm sure they weren't supposed to they would let me do it. Around 95 I started making computers for people but how does that tie in with the topic? In 99 I was working as a till girl in Comp Usa in America, ****ty job but it had it's fringe benefits like being able to get hardware and software at cost, most of the sales people there were complete knobbos and would just push people towards the most expensive computers. As sad as it was when people would come to the till I would have conversations with them and one of the questions would be "what are you planning on using the computer for?" most of the time it would just be email and in that case I would sit there from the till and tell people they don't need a computer with a riva tnt 2 in it and 256mb of ram just to do email. It was great. Loads of happy people that weren't getting shafted in the wallet, as pathetic as it was I actually had people that would come in just to say hi and thank me for saving them money. One day these two guys come in and they are buying up copies of windows 2000 and taking them back to the tech to see how much they would cost to get them installed. Needless to say they aren't happy with the quote and when they come to put them on their business account I manage to strike up a conversation with them. In the course of chatting I tell them about all the computer experience that I have and mention that I could install them for them for a measly $100. The guy gives me his addy and tells me to come to his business in about 2 days and I can get started. Long story short I install them for him and also manage to optimise his network and install other apps as well. His network administrator was a guy that had a degree in computer science and yet couldnt even manage a windows installation. I ended up not only getting hired as the second admin but when the first one left the company not only paid for me to get a mcse in win2000 but started me off on a salary of $48,000 a year, with health benefits, my own office, an hour paid lunch, and stock options, all before I even finished with my mcse. All I had to do was fix network probs when they popped up and even then the guy asked me if I wanted to see about becoming a test technician, ie fixing the main boards by running them through a huntron machine which basically checked the electrical pulses through the capacitators and then just had to resolder the new chips onto the boards. Never bothered going to college to get a degree although I did do a semester of drama at NYU. Might have just been a case of being in the right place at the right time but don't think that having a mcse is worthless because you can have all the experience in the world but without some sort of certification you will get overlooked by someone that has a one and doesn't know ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Oskarsson Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 that's some fairytale.. congrats :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by jebus College IS a waste of 4 years imo, but you don't really have a choice whether to go or not. All employers require a minimum of BS/BA so no matter how many certificates you have, they will not even look at your resume if it doesn't have BA/BS on it. Smaller companies may not be as strict and may let you have a job, but most definitely you will be treated like scum. College is a waste? "Whacha talking about willis?" :D If its a waste, then damn, i best go to my school and withdraw from my college, and start looking the newspaper for a Computer programming position. if i was to walk into any employer without some type of Computer Degree, i'd be shown the door. How do i know this? Well every IT Company that ever comes to my school for presentations looking to recruit students. (E.g) Computer Associates, Symbol Technologies, Microsoft.. etc.. Says You need At Least a 4-Year Degree in Some IT Field, Computer Science or Information Technology. Certs, Help. but they don't mean a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedkitten Veteran Posted May 12, 2002 Veteran Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by n3Mo that's some fairytale.. congrats :) yeah its sorta like the techie version of glitter but without the schizo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by MxxCon now isn't that closeminded statement. you have no idea how much more complex *nix certs are. w/ windows you can figure out almost everything just by trying. not so in nix. why do you think there are so much more mcse than nix? not becuase there are more servers but becuase you can get them buck a dozen. also getting "as many certs as you can" is very RETARDED. it will show your employer that you dont' know what you want and only collect those papers to frame them on your shelf. concentrate on one specific field. i'm not saying ignore everything else, but defenatly don't collect those certs like some pokemon trading cards. having bunch of certs and no experience is plain stupid. work a few years, get some experience and then you'll know what to do and won't have to rely on "professionals" here on neowin:roll: I didn't say anything bad about *nix certs...They are good to have. What I was suggesting is that it's bad to limit yourself to one platform...in the real world you have mixed networks of many different types of systems...having knowledge of as many of those systems as possible will benefit you and your employer greatly. You seem to think that one must choose one platform. That is a very foolish thing to do...The IT industry needs well rounded individuals that know what they are doing regardless of what the network consists of. You also seem to think that you would be able to deploy and administer a Windows network without any training...That's laughable. It?s guys like you that cause problems and insecurity in a network environment, or perhaps that?s your motivation. Learning different platforms is like learning new languages, once you learn one platform it's easier to learn others. There is no reason to limit yourself to one platform. The problem with these one platform admins it that they do not always implement changes that are good for the company as a whole, instead they make decisions based upon their own preferences rather than on the network and users' needs...Like trying to force Linux on the desktop within a company that is already using windows clients, with the argument that it will save the company money. That's marvelous for the *.nix admin, but the users are going to be screwed and so is the company...Which now has to train the users and deal with a huge increase in tech support issues. These admins are clueless and don't realize that they are costing the company money and productivity. Cross platform experience and training is the best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 Originally posted by spanky You also seem to think that you would be able to deploy and administer a Windows network without any training...That's laughable. It?s guys like you that cause problems and insecurity in a network environment, or perhaps that?s your motivation. excuse me, but you have no f'in idea about my knowledge, my experience and what i can and can't do. funny but after our last corporate audit security department got perfect mark. funny that i'm in that security department. funny that our servers didn't have a single successful breakin. yes you will say that we'r just lucky that nobody tried to break into our computers. but would like to see 200meg of SNORT logs from 3 complete class c subnets? so close your yapper and talk about something you know. which seems like very little.and yes forcing linux on workstations for people who don't know how to use them is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 Going to make this simple. MCSE certifications are way, way, way easier than *nix certifications. The classes involved in getting an MCSE were designed for people 20+ years out of college who've never even seen computers before. Have you ever been in a room full of 40 year olds who don't know how to do jack **** on a computer? It's scary. Ever seen all those retarded "get your degree...in computers!" "blahblabhalhablhlabhalbh I can bye a car now thanks to my degree in computers in just 6 months!". I don't know what's more disturbing; the fact that they don't know much about computers before they start some certification, or the fact that what they know afterwards is completely convoluted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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