[help] Linux co-exist with Windows


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OK, this is what I gotta do :yes: :

I already Have Windows XP installed, and I want to install Linux.

By the way, I'm not so technologically advanced..please don't bash

I searched Google.ca for how to do this, I found a page that said something about resizing my partition. I know what a partition is, and my first needed program is a disk-partition-resizer. I heard of many, but I want a Neowin post of a reccommended one :laugh:

I heard Linux was a free OS, so that's why I want it. I really want Mandrake, but you have to pay for it :angry: . So, could anyone give me a download link of Linux :yes: ?

Also, could I have a step by step guide on how to install Linux (and still keep Windows XP)

Also, I need clarification: When you want to go into Linux, you gotta start up your PC and keep hitting F8 (advanced Startup Options) and select the Linux OS from there, right? Or is there a different way?

My PC Specs (I'm not even sure I can run Linux on this PC, please post if I can't, I don't wanna waste peoples time)

It's a Low-End Computer:

HP OmniBook 6000 (not to be confused with 600, it's a six thousand)

Pentium 3 Processor: 696 mHz

192MB of RAM

11.2GB FAT32 Disk(all for Windows I think, I remember creating a partition for a fresh installation on Windows XP Professional)

Windows XP Pro ( :ninja: )

anything else you gotta know?

I'm not the smart when dealing with computers, but I do know a little bit ( a bit more than basic knowledge, as in, I'm smart enough to not use Internet Explorer :pinch: )

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Ok, first item on the list - partition resizing

If your entire disk is devoted to windows (which it most likely is), then you'll need to resize. I'd recommend grabbing a tool like partition magic to do this. You should leave at least 3-5gig for linux, but this is up to you. Almost all linux distributions are free, however you always have the option to buy the cd's. Here's a link to download mandrake:

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3

Next up, install process. Put the cd in, reboot, follow the instructions, and you're done. The installer will install grub or lilo for you, which will handle your OS selection. This will essentially bring up a new screen with a list of operating systems you can boot from, and is completely unrelated to windows.

Think I covered everything, let us know if you have problems :happy:

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Ok, first item on the list - partition resizing

If your entire disk is devoted to windows (which it most likely is), then you'll need to resize.  I'd recommend grabbing a tool like partition magic to do this.  You should leave at least 3-5gig for linux, but this is up to you.    Almost all linux distributions are free, however you always have the option to buy the cd's.  Here's a link to download mandrake:

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3

Next up, install process.  Put the cd in, reboot, follow the instructions, and you're done.  The installer will install grub or lilo for you, which will handle your OS selection.  This will essentially bring up a new screen with a list of operating systems you can boot from, and is completely unrelated to windows.

Think I covered everything, let us know if you have problems :happy:

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Thank you! Will try tomorrow!

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...and don't worry about your specs, that machine is more than powerful enough to run linux. I currently have Ubuntu running on a 486 in my bedroom.

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how about colinux? you can run linux while being in windows. i didn't actually get it to work but it theory it should. or you could try vmware or virtual pc. or a live cd. what are you looking to get out of this?

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I think that any version of Linux that is 'Frankensteined' to work on a Microsoft filesystem will not be all that stable. It just seems like trying to run a Ferrari engine in a Ford Pinto. Just not made for each other.

As for trying Linux, if this is your first try, you might want to download Knoppix to give Linux a 'kick of the tires'. (sorry for the automobile metaphors tonight...)

Knoppix has a nice partitioning application (accessed through the qtparted app) that should be able to safely resize your partition (whether FAT or NTFS).

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^^ Slightly offtopic I suppose but I tried Topologi Linux a couple of years ago. It is a great distro to try if you simply cannot afford to take the risk of partitioning your drive and you don't own VMWare.

It was my first experience of Linux when I was too scared to partition my drive! :blush:

:cool:

Back on topic, I reckon your best bet will be to use Partition Magic to make some free space available on the drive, then install a distro like Fedora.

Edited by hornett
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I searched Google.ca for how to do this, I found a page that said something about resizing my partition. I know what a partition is, and my first needed program is a disk-partition-resizer. I heard of many, but I want a Neowin post of a reccommended one :laugh:

I heard Linux was a free OS, so that's why I want it. I really want Mandrake, but you have to pay for it  :angry: . So, could anyone give me a download link of Linux :yes: ?

Also, could I have a  step by step guide on how to install Linux (and still keep Windows XP)

Also, I need clarification: When you want to go into Linux, you gotta start up your PC and keep hitting F8 (advanced Startup Options) and select the Linux OS from there, right? Or is there a different way?

My PC Specs (I'm not even sure I can run Linux on this PC, please post if I can't, I don't  wanna waste peoples time)

It's a Low-End Computer:

HP OmniBook 6000 (not to be confused with 600, it's a six thousand)

Pentium 3 Processor: 696 mHz

192MB of RAM

11.2GB FAT32 Disk(all for Windows I think, I remember creating a partition for a fresh installation on Windows XP Professional)

Windows XP Pro ( :ninja: )

anything else you gotta know?

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I just left a post on this discussion board with general info on how to set up a new partition. You can find it in the Rega451 reply to 'windows xp linux dual boot' post. That may help some on how to set up your partition. As far as getting Mandrake for free, just go to the Mandrake website posted by SaguratuS and click the second box...You do intend to become a member don't you? :rolleyes: A yearly subscription is around US $66.00 for the basic subscription, but the basic Mandrake distro 10.1 is free. You just get more 'stuff' when you subscribe. Get the latest iso image (3 disks) from one of the mirror sites. Mandrake install is a snap, XP was tougher than it is! As far as a step by step installation guide goes, each distro is different and usually comes with its own way of installing on your drive. They generally ask the same basic questions but present it in different ways. Also, some distros, Mandrake for one, have a lot of automatic install and this really makes it easy. The price you pay is a little less freedom to tweak the OS. If you are new to the Linux world I suggest you don't try to dive right into something like Debian just yet. It could make a Linux hater out of you. :D As far as your system goes, it will depend on how much of your WinXP partition you are willing to give up to install Linux. You can probably do OK with a 2-3GB Linux partition. With 192Mb of Ram you will need a Linux swap partition so you need to take that into account as well. Also, if I am not mistaken, the HP OmniBook is a laptop so you may have a few issues there, hard to tell. One test of how compatable your computer will be with Linux is to get a copy of Knoppix and run it from the CD. As far as starting Linux goes, the LILO or GRUB bootloader takes care of that and is installed for you when you install your Linux system. If I kept hitting F8 my computer would probably puke! :laugh: Good Luck!

Edited by rega451
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whats the point of running a linux distribution in windows? Mind as well get cygwin.

Any distro will co-exist with windows ntfs or fat32 but beware of one thing:

If the installation has not detected a windows partition and has not edited the lilo or grub menus, you have to manually edit and add the entries but that isn't hard. For lilo

just edit whichever boot menu you installed. it's text files so you can use text editors such as vi, emacs, nano,

grub: /boot/grub/menu.lst

lilo: /etc/lilo.conf

for liloit's

From the distros I've tested and liked, Slackware, Debian 'Sarge' and SuSE installs and creates the boot menu with windows as an option without a hinch. RedHat/Fedora and Mandrake also should but I'm not into those rpm distros and I haven't tested them cause I don't want to! :p

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Its fairly easy.

1. back up anything important.

2. get a copy of partition magic

3. repartition your drive (following instructions via partition magic) 5gigs should be enough to do some good testing with, but this is up to you and depends on your harddrive size, but make sure you leave enough room for windows to breath.

4. Set up your BIOS to boot from CD-ROM, insert Mandrake disk follow instructions. When you get to the part that asks about where to install (what partitions to delete, what partitions to make ect) and if your confused, write everything down reboot back into windows and post it here we will all be happy to help you.

5. Well pretty much enjoy Linux give it a fair shot. Been a couple months for me and if it wasn't for the girlfriend would get rid of windows. :)

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OK, I am downloading Mandrake Linux, and can see the size is 2GB, so does my partition need to be 3GB in order to have some programs installed under it?

Or better yet, how much space does Mandrake Linux take up? (I heard like 400MB, but the mandrake d/l is 2GB..so :pinch: )

And does linux have a "page file" of some sort, because due to my lack of RAM (192MB), I need to have a larger page file to cope with that (especially since Windows is a memory hog :crazy: )

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OK, I am downloading Mandrake Linux, and can see the size is 2GB, so does my partition need to be 3GB in order to have some programs installed under it?

Or better yet, how much space does Mandrake Linux take up? (I heard like 400MB, but the mandrake d/l is 2GB..so :pinch: )

And does linux have a "page file" of some sort, because due to my lack of RAM (192MB), I need to have a larger page file to cope with that (especially since Windows is a memory hog :crazy: )

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A Linux distro isn't like a Windows CD. Firstly, Linux can take up only a tiny bit of room, if you don't want any GUI. Or you can load in several different GUI options (Gnome, KDE, XFCE, IceWM, and so forth). Also, a distro will come with almost any app that you would need. Office suites, graphics apps, mail servers, web servers, and a whole bunch of handy tools.

I would think that you may want to set aside 5GB to try things out. And the 'page file' is called 'swap' in Linux. It is usually set up as a separate partition, and just used for raw memory writes (just like what Windows uses it for). Somewhere around 300MB should be fine for swap.

The installer for mandrake will set all this up for you. When you choose your options, it may even tell you how many MB you have selected, and how much room will be left on your disk after install.

EDIT: Just re-read your system specs you first posted... 11 GB disk? :blink: If you can squeeze 5GB out of it, go ahead. If not, just see what you can do. You might have to pick either KDE or Gnome (but not both) to allow room for your apps, but I don't know what Mandrake defaults to for installing. Many people who come from Windows find KDE to be more comfortable to use (I did), but it is really a matter of taste after trying both.

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Do keep in mind that you shouldn't be too surprised if KDE or Gnome are a bit sluggish on your system.

KDE Team are doing better though by optimizing the performance but you still might encounter slowdowns compared to let's say XFCE or Enlightnement.

Of course I realise that you are new to linux and comming from Windows, yes like markjensen said, KDE seems to do the job but just don't be afraid of using the terminals (command line). When I started I used gnome but I was always in the terminal screwing around, sometimes doing really bad things but I'd learn everytime! :D And when you know your way into commands to fix things like config files or kernel compiles, you'll be fine.

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I was able to install Mandrake on a 3Gb partition with KDE, Gnome, IceWin and WindowMaker. I also added the games package, well, pretty much everything except the development and servers groups actually. I ended up with over 1Gb of free space left on the partition. I didn't use a swap file since I have 760 Megs of RAM. I use the KDE GUI for no particular reason. When you install, if you go with Mandrake, the default bootloader is LILO and for the GUI you can choose between KDE, Gnome, WindowMaker, IceWin and I think one or two more. You can choose to install only the ones you want. You can select all of them if you like. If you install more than one you can make your choice of the one you want to use for the session from the click down menu at the login screen. Don't let the size of the distro CD fool you, there is a lot of overhead on these CD's that never even get on to your computer.

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OK, I am downloading Mandrake Linux, and can see the size is 2GB, so does my partition need to be 3GB in order to have some programs installed under it?

Or better yet, how much space does Mandrake Linux take up? (I heard like 400MB, but the mandrake d/l is 2GB..so :pinch: )

And does linux have a "page file" of some sort, because due to my lack of RAM (192MB), I need to have a larger page file to cope with that (especially since Windows is a memory hog :crazy: )

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4 - 5 GBs should more than enough for linux and an additional 350 - 500 MB's for a swap file (page file, virtual memory, whatever you want to call it.)

The simpler and easier route would be to download a Live CD distro such as Knoppix or SimplyMEPIS and run that. They mostly run in ram, but will likely use a few hundred megs of hdd space for swap. With a 'Live' CD you simply boot from CD and it'll take you right into linux. If you like what you're using it's pretty simple to install it from within the fully functional OS.

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I would think that you may want to set aside 5GB to try things out.  And the 'page file' is called 'swap' in Linux.  It is usually set up as a separate partition, and just used for raw memory writes (just like what Windows uses it for).  Somewhere around 300MB should be fine for swap.

So in Partition Magic, I will need to have 3 partitions? One for Windows, one for Mandrake, and one for the Swap File itself?

11 GB disk? :blink:

Yeah, can you believe somebody wanted to throw away a perfectly good computer? The only thing bad about the computer is the smell (I'm working on that...) and one of the clamps that allow you to lift the screen off is gone (only 2 more to go :D )

Update:After 2 days of downloading...6 hours to go!

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Before I choose the GUI, which GUI is this:

http://images.mandrakesoft.com/img/screens...k100-scr1-s.jpg

I like it because of that calendar (and the transparency...but I think it's a bit too much) and that sidebar with the (I don't know what it's called in Linux, but the "Task Manager" from Windows)

Update: I think its KDE..but can any GUI have that calendar and sidebar? Also, what themes do you reccommend that have the calendar and sidebar?

Another Screenshot: http://images.mandrakesoft.com/img/screens.../mdk92-scr5.jpg

I know it's a double post, but I didn't want to make the above post HUGE...

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The screen shot is KDE. The K and Gear in the start button and the K in the Konsole button give it away, on the second screen shot anyway.

Edited by rega451
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So in Partition Magic, I will need to have 3 partitions? One for Windows, one for Mandrake, and one for the Swap File itself?

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My advice is to NOT make any of the Linux partitions with Partition Magic.

Use PM to make room (unpartitioned space) for your Linux install, but let the Mandrake installer set up your partitions in your empty space. :yes:

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My advice is to NOT make any of the Linux partitions with Partition Magic.

Use PM to make room (unpartitioned space) for your Linux install, but let the Mandrake installer set up your partitions in your empty space. :yes:

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Resize my partition, so that there is an unpartitioned space? How does giving 3.5GB sound? That leaves me with another 3.5GB for Windows.

also, is there any other Program? Because the only downloads for PM I see are Demo's, which do not allow you to perform any actions. I phoned the help line, they said to download a FULL version..

How so, I replied, when I told him about me only finding Demo's

Then he said google it, or run to Future Shop... I'm going to google it for now.

EDIT: Is there a difference between Symantic (Norton) and PowerQuest PartitionMagic? The seem to be the same program...

BTW: Is google it becoming an increasingly popular Cliche? Or is it just me? I never heard people saying Yahoo it! lol

Edited by advancedboy
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You can use qtparted. It is free. It is for *nix, so you will need to download something like Knoppix and run it from there.

Just make sure you have a backup. This applies for any time you make a significant change.

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Install Ubuntu which is awsome and I've been using it for 4 months now. Any thing debian is good to me. If you want something easy to install and that can resize your partitions for you, download the Mepis linux cd and they have a graphical installation that installs Mepis while your using it live and it's partition resizing of NTFS is acually pretty good. Just make sure you defragment in windows first so you move all your clusters to the beginning of the drive.

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