moonfish Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Newcomers to the skinning scene TGTSoft has seen alot of popularity lately with it's upcoming skinbuilder for XP. The problem with all of that is one small thing. They do it using a hacked version of "uxtheme.dll". The thing is that hacking the uxtheme.dll violates the DMCA and is punishable by law as we have seen in the Dymitri Skylarov case brought on by Adobe for hacking their eBook format. It seems that if they don't find a different approach fast they're going to be coding from jail cell. (bear in mind that this was taken from a site run by our good friends at Stardock) :ponder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet_irl Veteran Posted October 21, 2001 Veteran Share Posted October 21, 2001 :( ffs that's ridiculous - we have the right to make our pc look the way we want it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purush Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Bear in mind there is difference between hacking and modifying. Style XP is all about modifying, just tweaking the user interface to make it look refreshingly better than what it already appears. if this is illegal than what Window Blinds is doing with Win XP Beta can also be considered illegal. I like the way Styles XP looks and will whole heartedly support their software. When XP is released many among the new users will want to change it Stlyes XP, this is a phenomenal work by the creators of Styles XP. Don't just drool about piracy and illegality stuff. We the users are entiltled to change the looks any which way we want. There is nobody that can take away those rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PabUK Veteran Posted October 21, 2001 Veteran Share Posted October 21, 2001 "if this is illegal than what Window Blinds is doing with Win XP Beta can also be considered illegal" Actually it is not because they have an agreement with Microsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortensen Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Now that the technology is out in the open to make skins it really doesn't matter if the program goes down the pan. Not that I want it to, but then they shouldn't break the law [if they have]. Let's hope they continue, as making skins the way I'm trying to is painfully frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 What Styles XP does is modify the XP skinning engine to accept themes which are not signed by Microsoft. I'm not sure if hacking the file is illegal, but it sure is fishy. What WindowblindsXP does is use the existing XP engine (intact) and allow it to use its own skins, without hacking anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet_irl Veteran Posted October 22, 2001 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2001 this is ridiculous - windowsblinds for 9x etc.. started the exact same way as stylesXP, and had many 'copying other OS' icon packs and skins (such as MacOS), which were dubious to say the least (stylesXP doesnt even do this), did they ask M$ or Apple then - I don't think so... now they're just p155ed off cos they're the 'big boys' now and they've managed to make M$ pretend they only had 3 themes ready for us so Stardock can release an exorbitantly priced theme pack...... im so annoyed by this monopoly back-patting crap between M$ and Stardock that I feel like installing Linux..... *me realises i cant play my games then*.... :s Shazbot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergith Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I swear its the os and company we love to hate, we have all there products (legality of them is questionable) but we all use them, and we then all complain about the monoply and price and asll this stuff, am i the only one that finds this remotly funny? i figure for what ms is, they are geniouses, to have the consumers by the balls they way they do, its amazing! me personally, i love ms products, just because, everythign i smade for them, there relatively easy to use, and learn new versions, and i have been brainwashed into loving them since i was like 5 when win 3.1 first came out :-) oh well, my semi rant is done! :p :p :sleeping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Please get your facts straight before you jump to conclusions. I have been a registered user of Windowblinds since it was first released and know a thing or two about it. What Windowblinds for Win98 did was simply add itself onto Windows - it did not modify or change anything about the basic os. All it did was when Windows 98 told it it was opening a window, windowblinds applied the appropriate bitmap over the standard window borders. That's it. What Windowblinds for XP does is use the EXACT same skinning engine as XP, just telling it that it can now use Windowblind skins. What Style XP does is hack into the XP's skinning engine and let it use themes which are not Microsoft signed. (the uxtheme.dll file). Microsoft never had the intention of releasing additional themes (from their own words) they simply wanted people to have the choice of luna and classic. When they saw Stardock was working on Windowblinds, they simply let them add on their own code to MS's (but not hacking MS's files and disabling the MS signed themes). Secondly, Windowblinds for XP is free and will be free. The free version will skin EVERYTHING XP does on its own, while the enhanced version will handle things like tabs in programs that XP does not skin. Third, copying other OS packs and skins is fine unless you take the exact same icon and file directly from the OS - stardock's skins take it from screenshots which is perfectly legal. There is nothing wrong with preferring WB or Styles XP, just get your facts straight before posting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baphomet_irl Veteran Posted October 22, 2001 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2001 chrisa - ok i may have gotten a bit excited lol and i didn't realise Stardock was free - that changes everythin i s'pose.... atm i have both WB and stylesXP installed, but tbh i prefer stylesXP - even with only one theme... i didn't much like any skin with WB - except 'Watercolor' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I'm just getting ****ed at people who jump all over Windowblinds for the wrong reasons. Easy mistake to make though. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YahoKa Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Why doesnt microsoft just say its illegal to put anything on your drives... oh, and no running .exe files that make use of the operating system... and soon the Windows API will hidden from devellopers. If they shut down this thing cus of Microsoft, then thats it - I am moving to Mandrake, bill can shove .net up his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Did I say anything about running .exe files? No. What styles xp does is HACK the basic XP operating systems to allow themes which were not digitally signed and emcrypted by Microsoft to function. It has nothing to do with changing the wallpaper or icons, it is altering the actual operating system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddogMDD Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Half the stuff above is wrong. I thought I'd clarify: WindowBlinds requires a running application to function. This adds system instability, eats RAM, slows the system down, and doesn't work well (yes, i know it's a beta but still...) StylesXP is better because it does not need a running app; it uses XP's already running Theme service. All it does is replace the skin validity file. It does not "change the OS" as someone said. WB may be a bit more flexible, but if you want true, stable skins, go with StylesXP. BTW, I also have extreme prejudice against Stardock, as it appears they have fUX0r3d iexbeta.com. Goddam hippies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3L Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I just think you all have WAY too much time to be arguing bout this WB vs Styles XP thingy. I liked how classic windows looked and still do. But i would like some nice custom skins to be availble just for fun :) Well that's my little bit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNIGHT Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 If M$ does catch on and decide to sue TGTSoft, I will bet that TGTSoft will counter sue. They will begin another anti-trust lawsuit that will bring to light M$ scheme to prevent competitors of Stardock from effectively creating skins for WinXP (in a format that the competitor chooses). And the arguement that a competitor should create a service app to run in the background, like WindowBlows, is idiotic. A competitor should be able to create and impliment Skins that don't hog resources. M$ should never required the theme/skins to be digitally signed. Bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 The digital signing of skins is one (of few) things which I agree with Microsoft. Their whole idea is that they don't want people to install skins not there own, f up their os, and come complaining to Microsoft. I also think that a competitor should be able to create skins which do not hog resources, but do it without hacking into another companies product in order to advance their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNIGHT Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 unfortunatly they messed up when they allowed Stardock to create skins for the OS. WindowBlows has been responsible for crashing windows on untold numbers of computers. So your arguement really doesn't hold water. So what if WindowBlows is M$ certified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I used Windowblinds for over two years with Win98 and the OS rarely, rarely crashed on account of Windowblinds. Most of the time, as a stardock employee told me, people don't heed the warning to update their vid card drivers and that causes the majority of crashes. Look, I will buy the better product. I vehemently do not think that Windowblinds has a lot more steps to go before it is up to par but it is still beta. Stardock releases TONS of interim betas for all of their products (as a registered Object Desktop user I know) and improves them one step at a time. If Styles XP works better than Windowblinds but does not hack XP, I'll use it. Till then, XP's default themes are for me. (People please (myself included), just calm down and wait for the OS to be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windowsxp88 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I dont get one thing..is it such a big deal if the damn thing is legal or not? I mean yeah it is if your a "legal" must have eveything legal for MS person...which isnt bad...but for those of us that want themes the cracked uxtheme.dll file will do...and if it ever causes problems than i just wont use it BIG DEAL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher1078 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I don't think its such a big deal to manually edit the file or download a free crack; however i do think it is a big deal for a product to be sold that hacks another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semifamous Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Short version of the differences: Windowblinds uses Microsoft's version of the uxtheme.dll file to apply WindowBlind's Skins to MS Windows Styles XP *replaces* Microsoft's uxtheme.dll file with their own ("modified"?) version to bypass Microsoft's "digital signing" requirement. Therein lies the debate. Both programs use almost the same file to do the same job. What I don't get is what's so cool about "Toothpaste"... Yeah, it's different, but Toothpaste is a good argument *against* Arby's "Different is Good" campaign... But that's not what this topic is about. I don't think that anyone applying another company's "skins" or "themes" to their computer is going to call Microsoft for assistance, which would have happened if Microsoft made their OS "skinnable." Microsoft *isn't* making the OS "skinnable," Stardock and TGTSoft are. The method that TGT Soft uses, however, *appears* to be infringing on the intelluectual property rights of Microsoft, because they are replacing Microsoft's file (uxtheme.dll) with a version that does the exact thing that Microsoft wanted to prevent, and using Microsoft's file format (.msstyles). Personally, I uninstalled Styles XP. I'm waiting for a good reason to re-install it... I'm hoping that they come out with some good looking themes soon. Eventually, people will start to make bad (buggy) themes for Styles XP, and you will have the same problem that you are having with WindowBlinds. The problem is not in the program itself (usually, not always...) but in the skin or theme you're trying to use. Some themes and skins will take more resources for Windows to figure out and put together, I promise. (Um, duh.) I don't know how to finish saying stuff, and I don't wanna repeat myself any more than I already have... Wow... I just read what I wrote. I sure said a lot without saying much, didn't I? (Sorry...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mephistocorugan Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 since when has anyone paid for styles xp? am i supposed to get a bill or something? what's up with that?! :roll: seriously though...windowblinds is not the 'be-all, end-all' skinning solution some would like it to be...it's still got problems, true, but since when have you been able to adjust the size of a windowblinds skin to your liking, and change the fonts used in the title bar, a few colors here and there, etc.? oh, that's right, you haven't...not without mucking around with skin studio, which in and of itself could use a nice usability makeover. bluntly speaking: windowblinds is ass. we all know it, just some of us refuse to accept it. sure, when you're forced to buy styles xp, or the editor even, which i doubt that will be a real hangup for anyone around here wanting to get their hands on it ;) ;) then you can start crying how it's morally and 'legally' wrong to hack a file...though, if you've done the start button hack i've seen mentioned here lately, then you're just as guilty as tgtsoft is...just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmo Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 (writing this, assuming all of us have paid for our copy of windows) now then. when you buy a car, are you supposed to contact your manufacturer if you want to buy new wheels? how about a stereo? leapord seat covers? maybe hang a scented leaf off our mirror to make it smell better? do they really expect us to wait for them to let us know that its OK to make our car smell better? NO so, when we PAY for windows, we OWN the software. we can do whatever we feel like doing, as long as we dont hurt anyone and stay legal. theres nothing illegal about modifying YOUR PAID FOR COPY of windows. just dont expect to get tech support from it. as always, just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binary Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Back to the very first post here, Notice how quick that post got taken off of wincustomize? Let's just say I had a little discussion about the legalities of posting such things about competition, to a few stardock employee's. P.S. Brad Wardell is such an idiot : Never tell him WB sucks or your making a death wish :evil: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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