Why Apples Out-Innovate PC's


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jerry

If you've been living under a rock the past few years, you might not have noticed Apple's resurgence. The rest of us have been reminded of it daily - from the iMac through MacOS X and to the iPod - it's been hard to avoid seeing mention of Apple daily. Why is that, and why don't we see such developments from Dell, Gateway or HP? This is actually a multi-layered question that we will explore in depth. These layers are inter-woven, though some extend deeper than others. The best place to start is probably at the bottom - the core of the situation (it'd be disingenuous to call it a problem.)

It is you, the end-user. As consumers, we have the final vote in a product's success. Though a designer or design team creates the concept, a board or committee approves it and workers and technology make it a reality, and marketers hype it up, only consumers can make it succeed. Thus, the success of Apple's products is ultimately decided by us. Whatever other considerations there are, we choose to buy them.

We do this knowing that they are, typically, more expensive than similar competitive products. After all, the latest and greatest Macintosh can easily be outperformed in most if not all benchmarks by offerings from major manufacturers, mom & pop shops and even those that build their computers at home. Whether we choose to pay for the name brand, the styling, features or whatever - we generally convince ourselves that it's worth it.

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Raven

Wow, a troll thread if I ever saw one. You can always tell an Apple user because they're blinded by their faith in Steve.

You might want to take a trip outside of MacWorld and see the innovations of the PC world. There is nothing the Mac can do that a PC can't do at half the price.

Performance benchmarks are about as trustworty as a 100 year old rope bridge. Everyone 'tweaks' them to suit their needs. It's a time honored tradition in the computer world.

Apple's 'resurgence' is more due to people's frustrations with Windows than Apple producing a better product. It's also the reason Linux is 'gaining momentum'. Everyone is looking for an alternative to Windows.

Is Apple products superior? It depends on the individual's needs. Some will always hate a Mac and others will love them no matter what happens.

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YBG

People who aren't so computer-literate prefer Mac OS X because it's easier I guess. I like both Mac and PC, but I have to roll with PC because it supports everything I need at a cheaper price and I play alot of PC games so..

Bottom line is I could build a top PC with every needed accessory at the price of a mid-level Mac.

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randy_tho

Typical Apple user -> Blinded by the sheen of the porcelin looking case. :)

They're like zombies or something... "ooohhhh pretty, I think I'll by it."

Since when is Apple really that innovative? Window animation? Small formfactor computer? They are more gimmicky than anything. :)

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bangbang023

What I don't get is his insistance that PC's are not as "sexy". Modern PC cases are no longer the beige boxes they first started off as. Also, the the fact that "Only Apple makes Macintoshes", resulting in a "premium" price, is also the same reason PC's were able to dominate the market while the better platform, at that time, fell off the map. Just look at Sony's Betamax. Same thing happened there.

In the end, Apple has come back because of one thing, ingenius marketing. They have reached a level that brands, such as BMW, Polo, etc have also attained. It's simply "cool" to own a Mac. Yes, they have done some very amazing things, but it's the marketing that brought it all mainstream.

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g-n-t

no, not porcelain. cheap white plastic with fingerprints.

apple has not innovated anything. they just spread FUD. Think different. blah blah blah.

but have they really innovated?

have they really released a product that was just plain superior?

have they released a product that is ahead of its time?

putting a circular motherboard in a dome isnt rocket science.

screwing a motherboard to the back of an lcd isnt innovative either.

there is a reason why things like this havent been done before, because they are stupid.

the power button is on the back of the machine on the mac mini. thats not innovative, thats just plain impracticle. they have an external PSU, thats not innovative at all either.

and dont get me started on the "innovation" of hte ipod shuffle...

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fuzzy_logic

Sometimes I wish Apple would license Macs to other manufacturers so that we could enjoy lower-priced and presumably more advanced Macs.

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fuzzy_logic
no, not porcelain. cheap white plastic with fingerprints.

apple has not innovated anything. they just spread FUD. Think different. blah blah blah.

but have they really innovated?

have they really released a product that was just plain superior?

have they released a product that is ahead of its time?

putting a circular motherboard in a dome isnt rocket science.

screwing a motherboard to the back of an lcd isnt innovative either.

there is a reason why things like this havent been done before, because they are stupid.

the power button is on the back of the machine on the mac mini. thats not innovative, thats just plain impracticle. they have an external PSU, thats not innovative at all either.

and dont get me started on the "innovation" of hte ipod shuffle...

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I'm not entirely sure about this but didn't Apple introduce the mouse?

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g-n-t
Sometimes I wish Apple would license Macs to other manufacturers so that we could enjoy lower-priced and presumably more advanced Macs.

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to quote someones sig

osx: the 2000 dollar operating system that comes with a free computer
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g-n-t
I'm not entirely sure about this but didn't Apple introduce the mouse?

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i dont think so, but even if they did, they didnt do a very good job of it :laugh:

and i was reffering to their current post-2000 batch of products.

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randy_tho

By porcelain I was comparing them to toiletry fixtures. Anyone else see a resemblance?

Its totally preposterous that they cost more because they are better or they cost more because they are like a fine automobile. Give me a break. They cost more because people have been convinced to buy them.

there is a reason why things like this havent been done before, because they are stupid.

Thats not only very funny but true also.

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xtatic43

hmm this article is a bit biased considering the dude worships mac. i love macs personally but the reviewer fails to list the highlights of the PC including more software, games, and cheaper hard ware. i use mac for the OS and the pretty looks, not the performance. PC is all about performance

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Steve
the power button is on the back of the machine on the mac mini. thats not innovative, thats just plain impracticle. they have an external PSU, thats not innovative at all either.

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Sure, it's STUPID, i agree.. Totally, I mean over the course of say 2 months, I might press this button once, if I happened to have wanted my Mac to shut down. :rolleyes:

putting a circular motherboard in a dome isnt rocket science.

Sure, iMac G4 was just plain stupid, nobody liked it, it got poor reviews... It was the G4 Cube, all over again...

screwing a motherboard to the back of an lcd isnt innovative either.

...Then they go and follow it up with iMac G5 - What were they thinking? Once more, it falls at the first hurdle, nobody even considers buying an iMac G5, let alone be even remotely taken in by it's looks or engineering feats...

JUST PLAIN STUPID.

You're arguments aren't even that, they really make no sense to anybody, accept yourself... :sleep:

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randy_tho

As for the mouse thing. The reason you think that is because you unwittingly buy into Apples crap. Yes, its been spreading for some time now. :)

http://www.superkids.com/aweb/pages/featur...ouse/mouse.html

That guy was on the screen savers back in the day when it was worth watching.

engineering feats

What feats? Your the one not making sense. Ohh a G7 that has to be better than a G5. They engineered it better so lets throw it in a sofa cushion and call it innovative.

:D

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Steve

Apple innovates because it can. It's a closed market with a trusty loyal, user-base and so can afford to take considerably larger risks, than PC counterparts. It's common sense to realize this, I am sure Microsoft would love to have introduced some of the ideas they may well of had, but yet they've a much larger scale problem, in trying to implement freshness into their products. The smaller the company, the easier it is, to shake things up a little, there's far less to lose, etc etc...

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ZZOOzzoo

Is this Apple version of Paul Thurrots's article? :rofl:

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randy_tho

And another thing. Apple doesn't have anything to do with the Gx processors anyway do they. I was sure IBM or was it Motorola that created these. Motorola once made Mac cpus anyway.

Apple is a design and marketing company pretty much.

Sure they can be innovative at selling stuff. Well at least people buy it for some reason.

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g-n-t
Sure, it's STUPID, i agree.. Totally, I mean over the course of say 2 months, I might press this button once, if I happened to have wanted my Mac to shut down. :rolleyes:

Sure, iMac G4 was just plain stupid, nobody liked it, it got poor reviews... It was the G4 Cube, all over again...

...Then they go and follow it up with iMac G5 - What were they thinking? Once more, it falls at the first hurdle, nobody even considers buying an iMac G5, let alone be even remotely taken in by it's looks or engineering feats...

JUST PLAIN STUPID.

You're arguments aren't even that, they really make no sense to anybody, accept yourself...  :sleep:

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electricity isnt free, i turn my computer off every day.

i like the cube... i thought it looked cool. :unsure: the imac g4 was pretty cool looking as well, but innovative? no. worth the money? no.

the imac G5 is the imac G3 with an lcd instead of a CRT. i havent really seen very many people going out and buying G5 imacs, and they look nowhere near as good as the G4's. it wasnt an engineering feat. they took an lcd, screwed a motherboard on the back of it, bent the ram slots to the side and called it innovative. its different, but is it better? no it is not. not by a longshot. because nothing in there is upgradeable other than the ram. even the harddrive would be hard to replace. and adding another one is out of the question.

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fuzzy_logic
As for the mouse thing.  The reason you think that is because you unwittingly buy into Apples crap.  Yes, its been spreading for some time now. :)

http://www.superkids.com/aweb/pages/featur...ouse/mouse.html

That guy was on the screen savers back in the day when it was worth watching.

What feats? Your the one not making sense. Ohh a G7 that has to be better than a G5. They engineered it better so lets throw it in a sofa cushion and call it innovative.

:D

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I said Apple introduced the mouse, not invented. Learn to read, retard. No doubt Douglas C. Engelbart invented the mouse, but it wasn't popularized until 1984 by its inclusion as standard equipment with the Apple Macintosh.

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Steve
electricity isnt free, i turn my computer off every day.

i like the cube... i thought it looked cool. :unsure: the imac g4 was pretty cool looking as well, but innovative? no. worth the money? no.

the imac G5 is the imac G3 with an lcd instead of a CRT. i havent really seen very many people going out and buying G5 imacs, and they look nowhere near as good as the G4's. it wasnt an engineering feat. they took an lcd, screwed a motherboard on the back of it, bent the ram slots to the side and called it innovative. its different, but is it better? no it is not. not by a longshot. because nothing in there is upgradeable other than the ram. even the harddrive would be hard to replace. and adding another one is out of the question.

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You're right, electricity isn't free, but that's why we have 'Sleep' on our Mac's. It maintains the pristine uptime, as well as drawing little to no power. Plus the machine is back up and running, exactly where it left off, in what... A second? That's something new on Windows mate. How do you define 'innovation', would interesting to hear that...

You like the Cube? Cool - have you even seen the size of the 'Power Brick' for it, it was bigger an

probably heavier than the Mac mini...

iMac G5, not very upgradable? Aww, what a sucker, so I guess if that was such a concern you'd look at the right kind of product line, in the first place, right? You surely wouldn't buy a laptop, and complain about the very same points? Much like a laptop, the iMac has a target market, one of which probably doesn't include people who want to upgrade and expand as many internal components as possible.

Once more, your definition of where innovation begins, would be interesting. You seem to make it sound like all this is something any old guy could knock up his garage. Somehow I doubt very much you or even some PC vendors could manage it. This isn't a ice-cold G3, this is a superhot G5, amongst a wealth of other components that dissipate a considerate amount of heat. To me, achieving the iMac G5 WAS a feat, yet I am unsure when something becomes an innovation. I guess back in 2001 when iPod was reduced, you sat back in your chair, and said - 'hey, thats no innovation, just plain stupid' ? Now look at it! :no:

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randy_tho
I said Apple introduced the mouse, not invented. Learn to read, retard. No doubt Douglas C. Engelbart invented the mouse, but it wasn't popularized until 1984 by its inclusion as standard equipment with the Apple Macintosh.I said Apple introduced the mouse, not invented. Learn to read, retard. No doubt Douglas C. Engelbart invented the mouse, but it wasn't popularized until 1984 by its inclusion as standard equipment with the Apple Macintosh.

Apple may have popularized it back in the 80s but that has absolutely nothing to do with innovation which is what we were talking about now wasn't it?

And apple didn't introduce jack. It was the Xerox Alto. btw.. he made it specifically for that setup. So yes he did introduce it.

You should learn to stay on topic and get the whole story.

:rolleyes:

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Steve
Learn to read, retard.

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Although I can appreciate your lack of patience for ignorance, please try to not resort to minor personal insults mate, you're better than that. :)

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randy_tho

What ignorance? Read my above post. Who's ignorant?

Although I can appreciate your lack of patience for ignorance, please to resort to minor personal insults mate, you're better than that. :)

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And while we are on old school tech I'll admit apple had an innovative gui.... albeit still ripped off from Xerox. :)

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Steve
What ignorance? Read my above post. Who's ignorant?

And while we are on old school tech I'll admit apple had an innovative gui.... albeit still ripped off from Xerox. :)

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He still said introduce, not invent / innovate. Not that this matters, name calling didn't seem ver appropriate, that was my take.

Irrelevance... Back on topic... :)

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g-n-t

windows has standby too. maybe you should upgrade from windows 95?

i was very surprised to see apple touting it as one of the features of the ibook. anyway, i just dont use it. i turn my computer off. creature of habit i guess...

i never knew there was a power brick for it. i thought it looked cool though...

exactly why cant apple integrate power supplies? give me one good reason.

im sorry, i should have looked at apples mainstream line of products that are upgradeable and affordable for the average user. oh wait, i forgot, apple doesnt have one.

and laptops? those are another category, not another market. unlike apple, in the pc world, there are different types of laptops aimed at different markets. some are small. some are cheap. some are fast. some are upgradeable(include addin cards, ram, video cards ,swappable drive bays, bigger batteries, etc.). and then there is a product for the people that want any balance of those 4. apple on the other hand has two laptops. both are overpriced. they both target the same market, but they just have different prices and different features. in no way do the ibooks/powerbooks break any new ground at all. unless you consider lit up apples on hte lcd an innovation.

i cant create a G5 imac in my garrage, i dont have hte tools/money. but the concept is very simple. you have the sqaure mobo, put the processor on one of the edges and hook a hose up to it with a fan and a heatsink. then you blow the heat straight out the side of the case. like i said, it isnt rocket science.

the ipod was reduced? now THERES an innovation that apple needs to pick up. reducing their prices.

the ipod is a piece of crap compared to the competition, ive been saying that all along. its just more "hip" than the compettion and better marketed.

my definition of innovation?

in realtion to this thread, it is hardware. it is something that has never been done before. it is something useful and pratical that makes Mr. Dell say "dayyyum, i wish i thought of that." none of apples products have that quality about them.

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