Why Apples Out-Innovate PC's

[Vice]

See, that's the problem. You're comparing a custom-built desktop to a machine built by Apple that's exactly like every other system of its kind out there...a machine that's gone through hours of testing and troubleshooting before it reaches your doorstep.

Apple builds the machine using very specific hardware components that eliminate problems. If you buy a notebook from IBM, Dell, Toshiba, Sony or any other well-known system vendor, it's no different. They build the machine, then run it through a whole slew of tests to make sure everything works as intended.

When you build your own machine, you're going through that testing and troubleshooting phase yourself. Hypothetically speaking (since it's not actually possible), if you were to build your own Mac with components and drivers that you select, it would be the same story. Of course, that's not to say that you can't build a custom PC that does go into Standby/Hibernate without problems. My desktop at home does it.

My point is - compare an iBook/Powerbook to a Dell Inspiron or an IBM Thinkpad right out-of-the-box, not to a custom-built PC with a mismash of hardware and drivers. I can guarantee you that the x86 machines will go into Standby without a problem, just like the Macs will.

585468383[/snapback]

the only thing that broke my standby was DEP and that came along once Microsoft brought out SP2. so really not my fault? lol DEP also breaks UT2004 when using latest nvidia drivers :happy: Wonder why they thought a virus threat was a large enough problem to warrant DEP.

[Steve]

OH yeah, sleep mode is the main reason someone should buy a computer... :rolleyes:

585468386[/snapback]

If you have nothing useful to say, best thing to do is say nothing mate... No wonder you have 11,000 posts. :rolleyes:

[NetRyder]

my old Windows laptop wouldn't last an hour in standby  :(

585468361[/snapback]

Well, I'm afraid that's simply not true for most x86 portables. I personally never had a reason to let my notebook standby for a week - I use Hibernate for extended periods, but I've let it Standby for more than 48 hours on many occasions and it's never run out of power. And this is a Pentium-4 machine we're talking about. I'm sure the Pentium-M's would handle it even better.

Although NetRyder explains how this all works, the irony is that half the time, getting the machine to sleep in the first place is a challenge in itself.  :laugh:

I am curious, NetRyder, maybe you can offer some info here, but at work the HP machine... When I have slept it, I can still hear it running, I can hear fans, etc. Now with Apple machines, its like Hibernate, there's no sound whatsoever... What's the deal there, do all Windows machines in sleep do this, do we have another dodgy situation going on, or what? *confused*  :huh:

585468377[/snapback]

Like I mentioned earlier, it's a challenge if something messed up the system after it got into the end-user's hands - like incompatible drivers, for instance. As I told WinMacLin, try out a brandname x86 machine right out-of-the-box and tell me that it was a challenge to get power management working correctly.

As for the HP you're talking about - it's not going into complete Standby. I had this problem with my desktop at home when it used to run Win 9x. The issue sorted itself out after it was upgraded to XP back in 2002. Since it's a brandname machine, I suspect it's a driver problem rather than a case of incompatible hardware. I'd ask HP about it because any machine that ships with XP should be able to enter Standby without a problem.

[NetRyder]

OH yeah, sleep mode is the main reason someone should buy a computer... :rolleyes:

585468386[/snapback]

Yes, it actually happens to be a pretty important feature for notebook users, especially. If I received a notebook that wouldn't Standby, I'd return it and buy something else.

[Vice]

Well, I'm afraid that's simply not true for most x86 portables. I personally never had a reason to let my notebook standby for a week - I use Hibernate for extended periods, but I've let it Standby for more than 48 hours on many occasions and it's never run out of power. And this is a Pentium-4 machine we're talking about.

585468403[/snapback]

Mine had a Pentium 4 Desktop processor in it (2.4Ghz) :( you can Imagen it got VERY hot and also the fan was quite loud and blew an awful-lot of air out which was also hot I could stick my hand there and feel much discomfort it was so hot it felt like I was being burnt but of course I was not.

Anyway I'm past all that now with my iBook no fan burning hot air or burning my lap :) and still with its 800MHz Processor it may not give that same raw power I felt from my 2.4GHz P4 it is adaquet for everything I need it to do. (and the 6 hour battery life over my old laptops 40mins is a nice bonus)

[Steve]

Well i gotta goto work, laters Netryder / WinMacLin.

[Vice]

See ya later Steve! Tell Neyo I said Hi (Alias-a-hoy!) lol

[Samoa]

If you have nothing useful to say, best thing to do is say nothing mate... No wonder you have 11,000 posts.  :rolleyes:

585468401[/snapback]

take your own advice asshat.. :p

[mac15]

Windows users can play games, Apple users can't.

nuff said :happy:

585468095[/snapback]

Your kidding right, there is a huge amount of title's out for the mac, its not a huge market place like games on Windows but we are slowly catching up.

[mac15]

I agree that it all has to do with personal experience. But here's a simple fact - Standby and Hibernate will work correctly on any machine if the hardware and drivers support it. Most brand-name machines are good at this because they pick mainstream hardware (rather than some no-name cheap component) and offer constantly updated drivers on their sites. As long as you stick to those drivers, you should be fine - always.

And since you are of the opinion that OS X's power management (Sleep, specifically) is superior to XP's, I just had one question - what happens if you put a Mac portable to sleep with all of your work still open and the battery runs out while it's sleeping? Any of the Mac users here - feel free to answer this.

585468292[/snapback]

From a full charge, it can be left on sleep for I'd say around a month before it dies out. Maybe even longer... who wouldn't pic up their computer in a month...

[jamend]

Well there seem to be some bad bashing around here.

I think that this thread should not really have seen the light of day. If Apple innovate or not is really to subjective and subject ot one own opinion to be a valid subject of objective discution. Still that's my opinion.

Does apple innovate surely they do. And they most likely have the number of patent to prouve it. Does the rest of the computer manufacturer out there innovate most likely they do to and they must have the patent to prouve it.

Apple innovation are traditionnaly more talked about? i belive because apple is still seen as the underdog there for every good idea they have is instantly seen as the way for them to get on top. Aldo these ideas are usualy not really rewarded with huge boost of theyre market share, they are often copied and copied a lot. Take the ipod. Since apple ipod clone with more "feature" are exploding now everyone as a ipod killer on sale. Or the imac. Since it's introduction pc case have been more and more colored and unusual. Even do it's true that some of Apple idea where not truly there to begin with (the ipod for example) apple seem to have a nack to expand opon a concept and transform it into something different.

As for the pc versus mac argument. I find that usualy the old argument that mac are more expansive then pc is not really true. Take the ibook for example. It's a 1,240 can $ laptop 12 inch screen, decent hd (30 gig) decent ram (256) decent videocard(radeon 9200) and decent processor (g4 1.2 more or less a p4 2.4) now it's under 5lb a comparrable x86 laptop can be found but usualy not that light. However the ibook come with an os a version of office and ilife. The conparable laptop comes with winxp home and no wifi. Adding office would be and extra 300$. The apple software bundle usualy make a huge difference in the price.

Finaly an apple is not really different than a pc when you add a logitech optical mouse and virtualpc in fact it does the same thing as one ... only better and slower.

Oh and for the one who does not think that xserv is a good server os.... think about it .... BSD is unix compatible

and unix is linux compatible and well novell will be linux compatible on it's next version. What fun

585467840[/snapback]

Anyways, let me point outagain> that the iPod was not the first hard-drive based MP3 player, nor was it the first to have a compact design unlike the Creative Jukebox. Ironically enough, it (the Compaq/Hango PJB-100) was designed in 1998 at the same place as the Xerox GUI which Apple later "innovated".

http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-Remote_Solution_PJB100_6GB

Yeah, it was about 1/3 bigger and heavier than current iPods, but keep in mind that it also came out 3 years before the first iPod.

As for the iMac, I think the whole colour fad lived and died with it. Yeah, it was unique and original, but whether it was actually a good design is debatable and it wasn't really copied by anyone other than direct knock-offs from eMachines and the like. Macs still aren't cheap either. Sure, the iBook is relatively cheap on the Mac spectrum, but it's still not cheap compared to PC laptops and it isn't exceptionally thin or light, nor is a G4 1.2 GHz as fast as a P4 2.4 GHz as WinMacLin kindly pointed out. Also, your Office argument doesn't really hold water because you'd have to buy it for both platforms (Macs don't come with Office; just a buggy demo/beta version), unless you want to use ClarisWorks (haha joke).

As for servers, Mac OS X Server and Linux are both flavours of Unix, but Linux has much more support (examples: Oracle, Novell). Also, Virtual PC is pretty slow, and even with a Logitech mouse, you still won't be able to play Doom 3 (at least not yet), Half-Life 2, or Far Cry.

Mine had a Pentium 4 Desktop processor in it (2.4Ghz)?:(:( you can Imagen it got VERY hot and also the fan was quite loud and blew an awful-lot of air out which was also hot I could stick my hand there and feel much discomfort it was so hot it felt like I was being burnt but of course I was not.

Anyway I'm past all that now with my iBook no fan burning hot air or burning my la:):) and still with its 800MHz Processor it may not give that same raw power I felt from my 2.4GHz P4 it is adaquet for everything I need it to do. (and the 6 hour battery life over my old laptops 40mins is a nice bonus)

585468416[/snapback]

If your laptop only lasts 40 minutes while running and an hour while in standby, you have a defective unit. Even a P4 laptop should last longer than that. Also, I've never seen a laptop where the fans stay on while in standby, so either it's a specific flaw of your laptop's design or it's related to the battery life defect.

Anyways, you really shouldn't compare a P4 laptop to an iBook. They're in completely different classes, and they both have different advantages and disadvantages. Neither of them are really better (your case of a defective/poorly designed laptop aside).

The thing with PCs is that there is an infinite variety of them, and anyone's personal experience is not enough to justify that they are better or worse than Macs.

[Slipdisc210]

there is a reason why things like this havent been done before, because they are stupid.

585462180[/snapback]

No troll intended but, i agree with that statement

[radioboy]

Price-linux is free, windows stays current for about 5 years, OSX needs upgrading every 9 months. i dont like that.

OS X doesn't "need" upgrading. A new version becomes available. 10.2 didn't stop working when 10.3 came out and many people are running it just fine.

Menubar thingy, i tried it once in KDE cause it has a similair feature, i just didnt like the way it worked. having a menu on each window is better and easier to access.

That doesn't count. I've used the KDE feature, it's as dissimmilar as it can be. The idea of the single menu bar is this: need to get to the menu for the app you're in? Push your mouse all the way to the top of the screen. That's it. You can't overshoot it. People like to blast this one cause it's different... use it for a few days (on a mac) and you'll learn to like it.

dock-wastes space, doesnt really handle having more than one window open too well. covers up windows under it.

When I hit the expand button, windows don't go over the dock. They stop at the dock. The dock can also be auto-hidden, much like the task bar

It's not designed to be a window manager, that's what expose is for. The dock is designed to handle the launching and switching of applications, not windows.

finder-it doesnt have enough view modes. konqueror has every feature under hte sun, and hten some. i also heard finder was really slow too, but i havent seen that.

Icon, column, detail. Tree would be nice, though. How many details do you need? What "feature under the sun" does konqueror have that the finder needs? I've never been inhibited using the finder.

If you "heard it's really slow but haven't seen that", then you shouldn't be quoting it in your post. Makes you lose credibility esp since that's a false statement.

boring-this is hard to explain. if you use linux, youll get it.

I've used linux. On a PC. For months at a time. I don't get it.

[radioboy]

12 year olds dont care for ogg support, 90+dB ratings or line in recording.

585468145[/snapback]

No, NO ONE CARES about ogg support. Have you ever heard the term "vocal minority"? 99% of hte consumer population does not know what ogg is, does not care what ogg is, and is not worried if their X device can support oggs.

Ogg is an insigificant blip on the file format radar, despite what everyone in said vocal minority wants to think. Ogg is the file format that people use to say "omg im superior to you because i usee the free open source ogg codec!!1!!"

[anir]

No, NO ONE CARES about ogg support. Have you ever heard the term "vocal minority"? 99% of hte consumer population does not know what ogg is, does not care what ogg is, and is not worried if their X device can support oggs.

Ogg is an insigificant blip on the file format radar, despite what everyone in said vocal minority wants to think. Ogg is the file format that people use to say "omg im superior to you because i usee the free open source ogg codec!!1!!"

585469302[/snapback]

OGG is just the container format, not the codec.

In fact, OGG Vorbis provides better sound quality and lower file size in all ranges than MP3.

[zeta_immersion]

Hei listen .. took a while to read this but this is how is going down. I'm a PC user but got fed up with windows and so I installed FreeBSD ... (for those that want more from computers and want to expand their knowledge will get something other than win) ... anyways .. Mac are beautifull ... firwire mode, which i love, mounting process and installing programs. Pc's are for games, macs are for servers/work and *nix for servers and people that want more and have a brain. True are more expensive but u get it for work not play. Slower not really ... look in moveis and they all use macs. Inovative? .. dono but they have their things and at a lower price than PC but this can be debated. Bottom line is ... for people that want someting more from a computer will get a mac or *nix simply because it offeres a more flexible working environment. For gaming .. PC's rock ... but who cares nowadays with PS3 and XBOX2 ? ... Nice thread ... haven't seen one this good for a while

[Sjokkel]

Pc's are for games, macs are for servers/work and *nix for servers and people that want more and have a brain.

I've been a system engineer in the high-end server / IT business for 6 years now and let me tell you, i've only seen 1 mac actually serving things but i was removed after a few months. Why? Because it sucked at it! And *nix is not for people wanting more and having a brain... it's more for people with the lack of a social life enjoying themselfs writing scripts to get something simple to work or for turbo geeks that get an erection every time they hear the Star Wars tune on someones mobile. *nix i usefull when you need simple functionality in a non-changing environment. I have to give apple some credit. God knows how the hell they make people pay a huge price for something that looks boring, performs worse than an average PC 5 times as cheap and get away with it. :pinch:

[Lare2]

I like Apple, but I'm also aware that apple does not inovate. inovation is what's happening at Research IBM

[jerry]

Some real good discussion from NetRyder, Steve & WinMacLin THANK YOU ! :cool:

Only one person noted that this article was written by FiringSquad; thats a first :yes:

[islanq]

Yes, I love a mouth with only 1 buttong, you can operate that wearing mittens. LMFAO, Macs are okay if you do nothing but video editing. Other then that get a PC (Y)

[jerry]

Yes, I love a mouth with only 1 buttong, you can operate that wearing mittens. LMFAO, Macs are okay if you do nothing but video editing. Other then that get a PC (Y)

585470159[/snapback]

Same like "Macs are only for designing & stuff" :rofl:

Another troll post or should I say an absolutely ignorant post. :pinch:

[radioboy]

OGG is just the container format, not the codec.

In fact, OGG Vorbis provides better sound quality and lower file size in all ranges than MP3.

585469517[/snapback]

that doesn't change the fact that if joe consumer cared that much then ogg would have taken over a long time ago

like i said, ogg is just a blip on the format radar that no one cares about

[ZZOOzzoo]

like i said, ogg is just a blip on the format radar that no one cares about

585470244[/snapback]

Someone who cares about sound quality sure would.

[mswarts]

Ogg > Mp3

Some people can't figure out the simple equation. Oh well.

[threetonesun]

Ogg > Mp3

Some people can't figure out the simple equation.  Oh well.

585470308[/snapback]

Lossless > AAC > Ogg > Mp3.

Why people, when we all have such gigantic hard drives, would still use compressed media is beyond me.