Why Apples Out-Innovate PC's

[panicswitched]

i agree with the post and im not even a mac user :happy:

edit, apples stand by is made to work all the time it will come back from standby where as windows you are lucky if it comes back, my laptop wont come out of standby correctly :\

[randy_tho]

i agree with the post and im not even a mac user  :happy:

edit, apples stand by is made to work all the time it will come back from standby where as windows you are lucky if it comes back, my laptop wont come out of standby correctly :\

585462315[/snapback]

That has a lot to do with the computer and the drivers. My thinkpad never has a problem. I can go for weeks without rebooting. I use the hibernate function.

My mothers hp notebook had that problem until a bios upgrade.

[Argote]

I have yet to see a Mac do something a PC can't... but every Mac user knows their Mac can't do some of the things it's bigger brother (PC) can

[fuzzy_logic]

and laptops? those are another category, not another market. unlike apple, in the pc world, there are different types of laptops aimed at different markets. some are small. some are cheap. some are fast. some are upgradeable(include addin cards, ram, video cards ,swappable drive bays, bigger batteries, etc.). and then there is a product for the people that want any balance of those 4. apple on the other hand has two laptops. both are overpriced. they both target the same market, but they just have different prices and different features. in no way do the ibooks/powerbooks break any new ground at all. unless you consider lit up apples on hte lcd an innovation.

585462314[/snapback]

You do realize you are comparing the products from one company against products from multiple companies right? The poor variaty in products, high prices can be explained by the lack of competition, which is why I said I wish Apple would license Macs to other manufacturers.

Anyway let's not argue about this. Personally I don't agree with the article that says Macs out-innovate PCs. I use a Mac but I don't even care about Apple. If another company can produce a better Mac, or a PC free of virus/spy-ware/crash (without maintanence that is), I'll happily switch over.

[Steve]

i agree with the post and im not even a mac user  :happy:

edit, apples stand by is made to work all the time it will come back from standby where as windows you are lucky if it comes back, my laptop wont come out of standby correctly :\

585462315[/snapback]

The sleep feature on Mac's isn't Hibernate, nor is it Standby. It's an instant off/on solution which retains the user environment like Hibernate. Despite what "g-n-t" says, it isn't either or... Maybe he needs to test a Mac, rather than question my knowledge of the world's most used of OS...

[g-n-t]

You do realize you are comparing the products from one company against products from multiple companies right? The poor variaty in products, high prices can be explained by the lack of competition, which is why I said I wish Apple would license Macs to other manufacturers.

Anyway let's not argue about this. Personally I don't agree with the article that says Macs out-innovate PCs. I use a Mac but I don't even care about Apple. If another company can produce a better Mac, or a PC free of virus/spy-ware/crash (without maintanence that is), I'll happily switch over.

585462343[/snapback]

the article said apple out innovates pc's. pc's are made by a lot of manufacturers, its not apples fault they cant keep up.

apple wont do that. you can stop dreaming now.

*cough*linux*cough* once set up, zero-maintenance.

[g-n-t]

The sleep feature on Mac's isn't Hibernate, nor is it Standby. It's an instant off/on solution which retains the user environment like Hibernate. Despite what "g-n-t" says, it isn't either or... Maybe he needs to test a Mac, rather than question my knowledge of the world's most used of OS...

585462359[/snapback]

yes i do need to test a mac.

im trying to get a free mac mini to try them out some more.

but heres some innovation in that field for you. leiberman uses some ram(cant remember its name) that doesnt lose data so the computer is instant on/off.

and i still dont see the difference between sleep and standby. other than a different name.

[QuarterSwede]

*cough*linux*cough* once set up, zero-maintenance.

585462368[/snapback]

OS X, once installed, zero-mainenance. Enough said. The main reason Apple is innovative is because they make complicated tasks, programs and hardware insanely easy to use for anyone, not just powerusers.

Edited February 13, 2005 by Jstphish

[Steve]

my definition of innovation?

in realtion to this thread, it is hardware. it is something that has never been done before. it is something useful and pratical that makes Mr. Dell say "dayyyum, i wish i thought of that." none of apples products have that quality about them.

585462314[/snapback]

I don't suppose Dell cares much for the iPod, no? I guess the Jukebox isn't trying to steal the iPod's glory at all? Nah I didn't think so either.

I am done arguing point to point about why you don't like points a, b, and c. It's irrelevant to the topic. If you do care however, feel free to PM me and we can chat...

Innovation or rather Invention is quite an achievement. In a industry such as this, with such fierce competition for a strong almost 3 decades, its hard to pin point who innovated what, and where innovations stops, nor starts. However, one thing is for sure, Apple tries new things, they sample new ideas... Alot more theoretically escapes R&D and out into the wild. Sure between product or idea, they might not be innovative in themselves, collectively they probably sum up Apple Computer as an innovative company generally. When you think of innovation, you think of something new, something fresh, something different. Apple consistently has done this, in a whole host of different ways, both in terms of Software, Hardware and of course inter-twining the two to work almost as one.

Think -

Real World use of USB

FireWire

Exclusion of the floppy disc

iMac (Original) - if not for the physical design, think the colours

G4 Cube

iPod

G4 iMac

PowerMac G5 - Check out the internals, and tell me this is JUST a regular PC.

G5 iMac

^ Those are as chronological as I can remember...

There's absolutely tonnes of stuff, that is fresh and new, alot more than I can care to want to mention. If Apple is still just another PC company, yet runs it's own proprietary Software to run on them, so be it... :sleep:

[g-n-t]

OS X, once installed, zero-mainenance.  Enough said.  The main reason Apple is innovative is because they make complicated tasks, programs and hardware insanely easy to use for anyone, not just powerusers.

585462387[/snapback]

not really...

i would consider myself a power user, i had to ask my friend how to save a picture off the internet on his mac. turns out you have to move the window off the scree so you can see the desktop and hten drag the picture there.

[5Horizons]

I think what Apple is good at is marketing and making really cool, good-looking things. I don't see a ton of innovation coming from them, but maybe it's just me. They sure do think outside the box though.

The sleep feature on Mac's isn't Hibernate, nor is it Standby. It's an instant off/on solution which retains the user environment like Hibernate. Despite what "g-n-t" says, it isn't either or... Maybe he needs to test a Mac, rather than question my knowledge of the world's most used of OS...

585462359[/snapback]

Heh, maybe you need to test a PC? ;) Joking. "Standby" on my PC is the same as "sleep" on my iBook (or just flipping down the lid). They both power off the computer's main components while maintaining the RAM so they are almost instantly on and off. I've been able to do this for years on my PC.

[thuggers]

you know for the longest time i was one to completely dispute anyone even contemplating purchasing a mac.. I have been raised around pc's for 20 years now.

But, In the last two years, not intentionally, or at the drop of a hat, I made the switch. Started with using them at school, then at work and then in my home. And Its not the way they look or smell that does it for me. Its the software... It is so rediculously seemless that it drives me nuts. I love it.

Regardless though my DUAL 2 G5 is a wicked looking beast, especially with my 20' cinema and powerbook sitting near.

[QuarterSwede]

not really...

i would consider myself a power user, i had to ask my friend how to save a picture off the internet on his mac. turns out you have to move the window off the scree so you can see the desktop and hten drag the picture there.

585462394[/snapback]

Gee, I think that's called drag-and-drop ... something implenented much better in OS X.

[fuzzy_logic]

the article said apple out innovates pc's. pc's are made by a lot of manufacturers, its not apples fault they cant keep up.

apple wont do that. you can stop dreaming now.

*cough*linux*cough* once set up, zero-maintenance.

585462368[/snapback]

Actually I was considering trying out Linux. But frankly I was a little intimidated because of the installation process (don't you have to install all the drivers manually? I'm not sure). And a Linux box is also not as user friendly as a PC/Mac, I think. Plus since Mac OS X is based off of Unix, there is really no need for me to use Linux, except for learning something new which I'm always insterested in. :D

[g-n-t]

I don't suppose Dell cares much for the iPod, no? I guess the Jukebox isn't trying to steal the iPod's glory at all? Nah I didn't think so either.

I am done arguing point to point about why you don't like points a, b, and c. It's irrelevant to the  topic. If you do care however, feel free to PM me and we can chat...

Innovation or rather Invention is quite an achievement. In a industry such as this, with such fierce competition for a strong almost 3 decades, its hard to pin point who innovated what, and where innovations stops, nor starts. However, one thing is for sure, Apple tries new things, they sample new ideas... Alot more theoretically escapes R&D and out into the wild. Sure between product or idea, they might not be innovative in themselves, collectively they probably sum up Apple Computer as an innovative company generally. When you think of innovation, you think of something new, something fresh, something different. Apple consistently has done this, in a whole host of different ways, both in terms of Software, Hardware and of course inter-twining the two to work almost as one.

Think -

Real World use of USB

FireWire

Exclusion of the floppy disc

iMac (Original) - if not for the physical design, think the colours

G4 Cube

iPod

G4 iMac

PowerMac G5 - Check out the internals, and tell me this is JUST a regular PC.

G5 iMac

^ Those are as chronological as I can remember...

There's absolutely tonnes of stuff, that is fresh and new, alot more than I can care to want to mention. If Apple is still just another PC company, yet runs it's own proprietary Software to run on them, so be it...  :sleep:

585462390[/snapback]

but apple did not make the first mp3 player. the only thing micheal went "dayyum" at was apples profits.

but you did not mention better. you can do a lot of things that are different, you can try out new ideas you can have a unique look. but it still does not equate to having a *better* product.

USB? how exactly did apple innovate USB? as devices needed faster transfer rates than serial, they were gradually adopted by the pc world.

Firewire? the number of firewire products out htere is pretty small. not to mention, it is more expensive than USB2. you have to admit, that apples "pioneering" of firewire was killed by hte introduction of usb2 in the pc world, leaving apple behind.

imac- that was cool, but that was a long time ago. noone is going to buy a G3 imac today, same with the cube. we are talking about their current batch of hardware.

the G5's both share the same concept and it really isnt all that new. the cooling power in the pmac is easily surpassed by watercooling introduced in pc's a long time ago. air cooling simply wasnt a viable option for hardcore overclockers, and an air cooling system as advanced as the G5's was a waste of time and money to pc users when better watercooling alternatives existed.

even then, smart fans are availabe for pc's that have variable speeds and can automatically change according to the temperature of hteir surrounding areas. i have one in my PSU.

im looking for real hardware usability innovations such as the scroll wheel. what has apple invented in the past couple years that has had such an impact in the way we use computers as things like the scroll wheel, the RMB, surround sound, etc.

[Timmah Veteran]

Wow the topic starter got owned.

IMO - yes Macs are nice to the eye (shame about the iPod :p), but so is my PC's silver case with blue LCD and 19" Flatron!

And the article uses Dell in it's argument! Dell!

[g-n-t]

Actually I was considering trying out Linux. But frankly I was a little intimidated because of the installation process (don't you have to install all the drivers manually? I'm not sure). And a Linux box is also not as user friendly as a PC/Mac, I think. Plus since Mac OS X is based off of Unix, there is really no need for me to use Linux, except for learning something new which I'm always insterested in.  :D

585462419[/snapback]

no, complete opposite actually. all the drivers are set up and updated automatically(well, you have to tell it to update, but after that it downloads/installs all by itself).

not as user friendly? ive found it better than windows and my limited time on osx.

reason to use linux? like you said, better/cheaper hardware with an OS that has no viruses/spyware/defragging/security holes or random crashes. and its really fast too. :p

[Timmah Veteran]

If this is an OS battle then...

Windows - Popular, compatible, ease of use - often insecure, often unstable, drivers etc...

Mac OSX - Easy to use, Pleasing to the eye, relatively stable - limited popularity and compatability...

Linux - Free distros, powerful, stable, advancing - better for server environments, not good for Mr A. Verage, drivers...

[QuarterSwede]

not as user friendly?? ive found it better than windows and my limited time on osx.

585462429[/snapback]

So far, Linux is still mainly for developers and powerusers. Grandma isn't going to sit down, install it and run it. It just won't happen yet ... to bad too because it's great.

Edited February 13, 2005 by Jstphish

[ZZOOzzoo]

i agree with the post and im not even a mac user  :happy:

edit, apples stand by is made to work all the time it will come back from standby where as windows you are lucky if it comes back, my laptop wont come out of standby correctly :\

585462315[/snapback]

You must have a laptop a manufacturer, as my IBM Thinkpad's sleep, standby or hibernate function works perfectly well.

[g-n-t]

If this is an OS battle then...

Windows - Popular, compatible, ease of use - often insecure, often unstable, drivers etc...

Mac OSX - Easy to use, Pleasing to the eye, relatively stable - limited popularity and compatability...

Linux - Free distros, powerful, stable, advancing - better for server environments, not good for Mr A. Verage, drivers...

585462437[/snapback]

dont want to tell you how wrong you are about linux and drivers cause i dont want to go off topic. :p

let me just say

i have a logitech mx310 with an 800dpi optical sensor. normally, in both windows and linux it runs and 400dpi and doubles it(or something like that, im not really sure how/why it works this way).

in windows, it is not possible to get it to run at 800dpi without jumping through a million hoops. downloading and installing logitechs bloated driver is just the first step.

in linux, it works straight out of the box and the option to choose the sensitivty is right there and the mouse works 100%.

[g-n-t]

So far, Linux is still mainly for developers and powerusers.  Grandma isn't going to sit down, install it and run it.  It just won't happen yet ... to bad too because it's great.

585462442[/snapback]

they will if they pick up a lindows box at walmart.

variety. just one more thing to love about pc's. :p

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

Personally I think telling someone to use linux because it has no security holes is kind of dangerous. Windows in the end might be more vulnerable, but I know how to secure it, when I tried linux however, uh, was I in over my head. I'll be damned if my box was secure because I have no idea, iptables, bind, all these things that I just didn't already know.

At one point knowledge is just as important as design. Now if I were to learn linux could I make it just as secure or more than my windows box? Probably but hell if I'm going to do that.

As for Mac's I wouldn't say they innovate, more that they can do whatever they want because they're the only ones.

They can drop the floppy because they only have to cover so many boot devices, they can do what they want because they don't really have to answer to anyone. I don't necessarily think that it's innovative to drop the floppy, I mean it's not like you have to put one in a PC, I odn't think dropping legacy ports is innovative, Abit tried it in it's original MAX line of motherboard in the earlier days of the Athlon.

Personally I think Mac's are cool because they're the underdog, no-one wants to be the majority, if the markets were reversed everyone would be saying how cool the PC was because it wasn't mac, etc, etc.

And the iPod I don't think it's king anymore to be honest. I've already stopped buying music from the iTunes musicstore because I can see where this is going, the iPod has fallen behind in every field except aesthetics and I'll be damned if I get so many iTunes songs that I can't switch. My 20gb iPod is full so I'm looking at replacements and I have to say there is just so much better out there, heck I like Polaroids MP3 player better than the new iPods.

Apple does have killer service however, I will always respect them for that.

Edited February 13, 2005 by mAcOdIn

[Timmah Veteran]

Ah fair enough, when I tried a few Linux distros I had problems (network card drivers mainly) whereas these work fine in Wind0ze.

I think Linux is behind Windows in drivers, just look at the ATI support.

Maybe when manufacturers take it seriously then it will improve greatly.

[gunky]

You can install a number of linux distros or OS X on a Mac. You can install a number of linux distros or XP on a PC (generalization but not too far off.)

If you don't play games, I really don't see how the latter option seems appealing. I realized that I don't play games much anymore, and the ones that I do, I can play on a mac. I sold the PC and bought a Mac. I'm happy; it's not for everyone, but people switch to macs, at this point at least, no one is switching from a mac to a pc.