Why Apples Out-Innovate PC's


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g-n-t

no, ATI is behind nvidia in drivers. just look at the nvidia support. nvidia drivers install right out of the box and updated easilly without needing to restart.

and driver support is just dependant on your hardware. my nforce2 integrated NIC works OOB in linux, but i had to install the nforce driver in xp for them to work and in longhorn they dont work at all.

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QuarterSwede
they will if they pick up a lindows box at walmart.

variety. just one more thing to love about pc's. :p

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That is the first step but that is hardly widely used. Stop stretching your arguments to the "nth" degree. You know what we are generally saying.

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g-n-t
That is the first step but that is hardly widely used.  Stop stretching your arguments to the "nth" degree.  You know what we are generally saying.

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again, dont want to get off topic.

now back to how much apple innovates...

or doesnt, whatever floats your boat... :p

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jamend
The sleep feature on Mac's isn't Hibernate, nor is it Standby. It's an instant off/on solution which retains the user environment like Hibernate. Despite what "g-n-t" says, it isn't either or... Maybe he needs to test a Mac, rather than question my knowledge of the world's most used of OS...

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Actually, sleep and stand by are pretty much the same thing. Neither of them are instant by the way. Both OS X and Windows use the similar technique of showing a snapshot of the running system until it's actually in a fully running state again. This just gives the impression that it's instant. Also, I've tested the features on a few modern systems of both platforms and there is no noticeable difference between the times it takes to enter and leave standby.

As for Apple being innovative...

Real World use of USB

This is pretty much a myth. There is no evidence suggesting that the iMac made USB popular, and most PCs already came with USB ports before the iMac came out.

Exclusion of the floppy disc

Removing features is hardly innovative, and Apple wasn't the first to do it anyways (especially considering that any custom-built PC could simply omit the drive). Much more innovative is the replacement of the floppy drive with a flash memory reader, something which Apple has yet to catch on to.

iMac (Original) - if not for the physical design, think the colours

The design is rather subjective. The hardware design wasn't impressive either. The only good thing about it was the relatively cheap price.

G4 Cube

There were already PCs in this form factor when the Cube was introduced, and unlike the Cube, the corresponding PC form factor wasn't discontinued, nor did they lack in upgradability and have an external power supply.

iPod

While Apple's is the most popular, Compaq made an MP3 player in a similar form factor (ie. not like Creative's ugly Jukebox) about a year earlier.

G4 iMac

It had a pretty good design, but it wasn't a very good performer and it completely missed the previous iMac's target market with its high price.

PowerMac G5 - Check out the internals, and tell me this is JUST a regular PC.

What, the 9 fans? PCs could have 9 fans too... they just don't need them. Also, flipping the orientation of the internal components around is pretty confusing and useless.

G5 iMac

As someone already mentioned, sticking a computer to the back of a screen is neither impressive nor new. It looks cool but it lacks functionality, which seems to be somewhat common among Apple products.

The only thing that I thought was innovative in your list was Firewire. It has a much better design that USB 2.0 and it came out earlier. I think Firewire 800 sucks though, because it doesn't provide any significant speed advantages (due to system bottlenecks), it's not backwards compatible, and it hasn't gained very much support from anyone else.

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XanDaMan
Wow, a troll thread if I ever saw one.  You can always tell an Apple user because they're blinded by their faith in Steve.

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You just punked yourself there. Wow, a troll if I ever saw one.^^

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Tim Dorr
As someone already mentioned, sticking a computer to the back of a screen is neither impressive nor new. It looks cool but it lacks functionality, which seems to be somewhat common among Apple products.

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Woah woah woah. Don't make that generalization. It does have functionality. It's *intended* to be user-serviceable. It's not just a side-effect, it's designed that way. How many all-in-one computers can say that?

Most of Apple's products are designed around transparent functionality. You have a simple set of options that when used correct yield the exact same functionality as more complex designs. Apple has a terrific HUI department, one that does way better than most companies.

Apple's products are neccessarily vastly superior, but there are advantageous in many circumstances. It's not black and white who is better, but it's not like Apple is way out in front or behind. Different tools for different users...

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QuarterSwede

Apple innovates more with software than they do with hardware this is true. But what is so innovative about their hardware is that it is easier to use than the competitions. Jobs has made sure that OS X as well as the hardware is intuitive to anyone.

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Apple is very good at innovative designs and innovative software. (ex. iMovie) But not so much for the (internal) harware... becuase they don't make any of it. (except mobo)

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g-n-t
Woah woah woah. Don't make that generalization. It does have functionality. It's *intended* to be user-serviceable. It's not just a side-effect, it's designed that way. How many all-in-one computers can say that?

Most of Apple's products are designed around transparent functionality. You have a simple set of options that when used correct yield the exact same functionality as more complex designs. Apple has a terrific HUI department, one that does way better than most companies.

Apple's products are neccessarily vastly superior, but there are advantageous in many circumstances. It's not black and white who is better, but it's not like Apple is way out in front or behind. Different tools for different users...

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???

like i said, there is a reason why pcs havent "innovated" this way, because its impracticle.

servicing a tower just requires popping of the side panel and youre in. with the imac, you have to completly remove all peripherals and you have to put it on its front to upen it up. with this, you run the risk of scratching and damaging the lcd.

transparent?

when i sit down on my desk and want to turn on my computer i say "better reach to the back of that little ****er, thats where the power button should be"

form/function=apple

i think you left out a not there, right? :huh: if so, i agree with you, to a point.

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the_snitch
???

like i said, there is a reason why pcs havent "innovated" this way, because its impracticle.

servicing a tower just requires popping of the side panel and youre in. with the imac, you have to completly remove all peripherals and you have to put it on its front to upen it up. with this, you run the risk of scratching and damaging the lcd.

transparent?

when i sit down on my desk and want to turn on my computer i say "better reach to the back of that little ****er, thats where the power button should be"

form/function=apple

i think you left out a not there, right?  :huh:  if so, i agree with you, to a point.

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When you use a mac you will find that you rarely turn it off. It flicks itself into "sleep" and pulses teh led on the front of the case. You click the mouse or tap a key and its awake in 1 second. :happy:

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g-n-t
When you use a mac you will find that you rarely turn it off. It flicks itself into "sleep" and pulses teh led on the front of the case. You click the mouse or tap a key and its awake in 1 second.  :happy:

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thats why i turn my computer off. i cant sleep with the led pulsing like that all night.

its the same exact concept with pc's. why cant you people understand that?

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ZZOOzzoo
When you use a mac you will find that you rarely turn it off. It flicks itself into "sleep" and pulses teh led on the front of the case. You click the mouse or tap a key and its awake in 1 second.?:happy::

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I'm just curious.

Regarding that 'sleep feature', what makes you think that PC doesn't work the same way?

PC can do the same, I just prefer PC completely off during when I sleep or am away.

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I'm just curious.

Regarding that 'sleep feature', what makes you think that PC doesn't work the same way?

PC can do the same, I just prefer PC completely off during when I sleep or am away.

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Mac OS X is usually more stable than most PC OSs.

And most macs (G4/G5 iMac, G4 cube, Mac mini) are very quiet, some of them doesn't even have a fan! This is pretty rare in the PC world (assuming you have a decent PC) and is also one of the reasons why PC users usually turn their PC off at night.

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ssvegeta384

They only thing I like about Apple (besides the slick GUI of OS X), is that they make both their own hardware and software, so it's all pretty much perfectly integrated. With Windows you got Microsoft making Windows, and [insert company here] making hardware and other software, with hardly anyone communicating and stuff.

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g-n-t
Mac OS X is usually more stable than most PC OSs.

And most macs (G4/G5 iMac, G4 cube, Mac mini) are very quiet, some of them doesn't even have a fan! This is pretty rare in the PC world (assuming you have a decent PC) and is also one of the reasons why PC users usually turn their PC off at night.

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when the computer is in standby, the fans turn off and it is silent. its just hte light that ****es me off.

about stability, you are forgetting that not all pc users use windows.

and vegeta, thats what winHEC is for.

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when the computer is in standby, the fans turn off and it is silent. its just hte light that ****es me off.

about stability, you are forgetting that not all pc users use windows.

and vegeta, thats what winHEC is for.

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Yeah, but with a Mac, it's always quiet, which is good when you're leaving the computer on overnight to d/l something big or donating computing time for medicial research.

Oh, and I didn't mention anything about windows on my last reply, I said most OSes.

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g-n-t

well then i have news for ya buddy, linux is as stable as OSX. it has never crashed once on me(apps crash, but not the whole OS).

PC's can be silent as well during operation. water cooling makes no noise at all, and can beat the cooling on any mac.

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Steve
I'm just curious.

Regarding that 'sleep feature', what makes you think that PC doesn't work the same way?

PC can do the same, I just prefer PC completely off during when I sleep or am away.

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It's because a large portion of the time, the sleep doesn't work right. Either:

It won't sleep

It sleeps, and you can't work out what you hit to awaken it

It sleeps' and won't awaken at all

It sleeps and DOES awake, but it's far from instant.

...Or it does work.

Because Apple do both Software and Hardware, this ALWAYS works, yet different vendors have issues having this work consistently. Well this is my experience with it at least..

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jerry
I have yet to see a Mac do something a PC can't... but every Mac user knows their Mac can't do some of the things it's bigger brother (PC) can

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Lack of games and Microsoft software programming like .NET cant be done on Macs, I havent seen any Mac user claim otherwise. On the other hand, I see a lot of PC trolls blindly spouting bull **** in this thread.

Wow the topic starter got owned.

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Ha ha, you wish. Luckily I have a life and I have to sleep unlike some of us here on Neowin. ;)

IMO - yes Macs are nice to the eye (shame about the iPod :p), but so is my PC's silver case with blue LCD and 19" Flatron!

585462428[/snapback]

There you go again, having your daily dose of "iPod trolling" ? Oh wait, you are against Apple on the whole. :rofl:

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Andrew Lyle

Dude, you are 110% wrong. iPod is cool, expensive, and the only thing keeping apple going. PC's rule, and always will. if i ever baught a mac, you have the right to shoot me LOL

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mac15
Lack of games and Microsoft software programming like .NET cant be done on Macs, I havent seen any Mac user claim otherwise. On the other hand, I see a lot of PC trolls blindly spouting bull **** in this thread.

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Ever heard of Web Objects? Hell even Dell used it to power their own website back in the day.

.Net seems pretty much to like web services tied in closely with the client? (I'm not windows expert) and your saying that can't be done on a mac? Hmm right

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John S.

Macs recent resurgence in the spotlight has nothing to do with OS X, nothing to do with the sleekness of an imac, it's been the iPod. 34% of Mac's sales last year were from the iPod. What does that have to do with a PC? How can you even compare the success of a companies music player against a PC?

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mac15
Dude, you are 110% wrong.? iPod is cool, expensive, and the only thing keeping apple going.? PC's rule, and always will.? if i ever baught a mac, you have the right to shoot me LOL

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As a mac user, you tend to spend half your time defending yourself against people and posts like this. I've been a mac user for a long time and I really have no idea why we both to comment on the subject anymore.

It's seriously stupid, its like telling your mum jokes back in school.

iPod's are cool... Expensive well no people are lapping them up. It's the only thing keeping them going well umm no.... bang shot :shifty:ty:

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CoLdFuSi0n
I'm not entirely sure about this but didn't Apple introduce the mouse?

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nope they did not ;)

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giga

Good ol' Wikipedia. People who are saying that there are no innovations with the macintosh need to get up and smell the coffee.

nnovations introduced or popularized with the original Macintosh:

    * A graphical user interface, icons, a desktop, etc.

    * The use of a mouse or other pointing device in personal computing (later, the standardization of an optical mouse on all desktop machines)

    * The "double click" and "click-and-drag" behaviors to perform actions with a pointing device

    * WYSIWYG text and graphics editing ("what you see is what you get")

    * Long file names, with whitespace and no file extension (up to 31 characters before Mac OS X, and expanded to 255 characters under Mac OS X)

    * The 3.5" floppy disk as a standard feature

    * Audio as a standard feature, including a built-in audio-quality speaker

    * Aesthetic and ergonomical industrial design (improved with later models, particularly the original iMac in 1998)

Innovations introduced or popularized with later Macintosh models or software:

    * The PostScript laser printer

    * Desktop publishing

    * User programmability through HyperCard and AppleScript

    * The SCSI interface (Mac Plus, 1986)

    * Audio input as a standard feature (Mac IIsi & Mac LC, 1990)

    * A CD-ROM drive as a standard feature (Quadra 900, 1991)

    * A single desktop environment that may span multiple monitors

    * Ethernet support as standard feature (Quadra 700 & 900, 1991)

    * FireWire, also known as IEEE 1394, an Apple-developed standard also promoted by Sony under the name iLink (Blue and White G3, 1999)

    * IEEE 802.11b and IEEE 802.11g wireless networking, branded AirPort, AirPort Extreme, and AirPort Express by Apple (original iBook, 1999)

    * The abandonment of the floppy disk (original iMac, 1998)

    * The first commercially available computer to rely primarily on USB for peripheral connection (original iMac, 1998)

    * A modern RISC-based architecture in the form of the PowerPC processor, developed jointly by Apple, IBM and Motorola (Power Macintosh 6100, 1994)

    * The first affordable DVD-R drive ("SuperDrive", Power Mac G4, 2001)

    * Flat-panel displays as a standard feature (laptop: Macintosh Portable, 1989; desktop: iMac G4, 2002)

    * First notebook computers with built-in pointing devices and rear-mounted keyboards (PowerBook 100 series, 1991)

    * First notebook computer with dock/port replicator (PowerBook Duo, 1992)

    * First notebook computer with widescreen display (PowerBook G4, 2001)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Macintosh

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