Why Apples Out-Innovate PC's

By jerry
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Grand Master

Andrew Lyle Global Moderator

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As a mac user, you tend to spend half your time defending yourself against people and posts like this. I've been a mac user for a long time and I really have no idea why we both to comment on the subject anymore.

It's seriously stupid, its like telling your mum jokes back in school.

iPod's are cool... Expensive well no people are lapping them up. It's the only thing keeping them going well umm no.... bang shot ya :shifty:

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i dont see a real use for mac's. it just makes this world a bit more confusing, and they have to change everything inside of the mac. everyone says its secure, but if everyone switched, we'd have a massive headache. i think PC's will always rule. but if you like your Mac, thats perfectly fine, i hate'em.

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threetonesun

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Oh boy ...

I've used computers for a loooong time. I've tried DOS, OS/2, Windows from 3.1-XP (every version), a few types of Linux, BeOS, and probably others I can't remember. That said, I recently ordered a mini, and plan on selling my XP machine. Windows XP, while more stable, is a glorified Windows 95. The applications are such a hodgepodge of designs that throwing someone in front of my XP box is more than intimidating. I've lately been running into as many device driver conflicts as I did in Linux (let's not get started on hardware conflicts in Linux though), and after splitting up some hard drives, changing some icons, and generally making things easier for me, Windows seems to not like what I've done, icons only appear in some places, folder links are all over the place. Setting up a network is a test of virtue.

Now, I'm only remotely familiar with OSX, but after watching a preview of Tiger, it looks to have everything I would want in an OS. I'll try to break it as well as I did with Windows, and let you know how it goes.

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thenaes

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I just wish people would really try and experience Macs before they talk bad about them - it only makes sense you know? I don't know why people have this horrible hate for Macs. You have to experience both before you can make an educated arguement.

I have an iBook and a PC and I am starting to find that I like the way OS X feels and runs better than my Windows machine. Is that something set in stone? No, it is just my opinion and how I feel on the matter. PCs and Macs suit the needs of different people and you just have to find out which kind of person you are and which one is the best for you. Period.

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Timmah Veteran

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There you go again, having your daily dose of "iPod trolling" ? Oh wait, you are against Apple on the whole.  :rofl:

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I think the 4G iPod looks crap, in comparison with the 3G (which still isnt to my tastes).

Did you read what I said? Go back and read it.

Go on - click here and read my post.

Did I say "LOLOLOLOL MACZ R SH!T ONYL FAG$ USE EM LOLOL!!11"?

Have I ever said such a thing?

I dislike the iPod and its popularity-versus-features ratio (not starting this here) but I have nothing against Apple as a whole.

Is it possible that for once you could try to not start some form or argument or flaming war or are you like this by nature?

Lots of love

Timmy

xx

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Grand Master

jerry

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Did you read what I said? Go back and read it.

Go on - click here and read my post.

Did I say "LOLOLOLOL MACZ R SH!T ONYL FAG$ USE EM LOLOL!!11"?

Have I ever said such a thing?

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You still used the word "OWNED" ;) Stop trying to act innocent. :whistle:

I dislike the iPod and its popularity-versus-features ratio (not starting this here) but I have nothing against Apple as a whole.

Is it possible that for once you could try to not start some form or argument or flaming war or are you like this by nature?

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You dislike the iPod and I'm sure everybody on Neowin knows about it since you absolutely have to bash the in every thread about it.

I am not the one who used "owned" against you or any other member here, look at your post first before trying to have a dab at my nature. ;)

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soypowered

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Maybe this was already said, but, this is on a GAMER'S website. With Apple supporting games 1-2 years old only as Aspyr makes them, it really isn't a Gamer's machine! So much for Firing Squad being a place for the hardcore gamer :rolleyes:

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randy_tho

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Listen up. Popularized does not equal innovation. Almost all the things that Apple gets credit for are done first by someone else. The GUI? Sorry not Apple. Xerox once again.

Yes Apple popularized them because Steve Jobs is a salesman, not an innovator.

some of them doesn't even have a fan!

I think the only Apple w/o a fan was the cube and we all know how that turned out. They overheated, the case cracked for no reason and if you accidentally dropped a pen or screw or something over top of it.... well goodbye 4,000 piece of junk.

Do the newer ibooks not have a fan?

And I must also say that the original imac was the worst computer anyone has ever conceived. Lets not get started on that. :)

Oh and my first computer was a Performa 467. This was pre win95. It seemed pretty nice back then even though it crashed all the time. That thing hard locked more than a Win95 PC. At least with it you got a blue screen to tell you it was unstable. With the Mac it would sit there with that stupid twirly cursor acting like it would do something until the cursor finally locked up also. Remember the force quit? :wacko:

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gunky

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when i sit down on my desk and want to turn on my computer i say "better reach to the back of that little ****er, thats where the power button should be"

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Do you have any idea how small the thing is? you certianly aren't reaching for anything on that piece.

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Chadwick

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apple never claimed to be first, people make the misconception, apple may not have invented the GUI, but it was the first to take the concept and bring it mainstream, it wasn't the first mp3 player but it was hte first to make a mass storage version that was of practical size with one of hte simplest, efficient, and effective interfaces (in terms of both software & hardware).

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NetRyder

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It's because a large portion of the time, the sleep doesn't work right. Either:

It won't sleep

It sleeps, and you can't work out what you hit to awaken it

It sleeps' and won't awaken at all

It sleeps and DOES awake, but it's far from instant.

...Or it does work.

Because Apple do both Software and Hardware, this ALWAYS works, yet different vendors have issues having this work consistently. Well this is my experience with it at least..

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During the last three years, I've used Standby on three Inspirons, a Toshiba Satellite, and a Sony VAIO, and it worked flawlessly on all of them. I have also had a chance to see Sleep first-hand on my roommate's 15" Powerbook and it's really no different apart from the "pretty pulsing light"

I don't know how many decades ago you last used a PC (or what mishmash of drivers you had installed on it), but things have changed since then.

Mac users have the habit of accusing PC users of being ignorant about the Mac platform. From the comments in this thread (and others) it's no different the other way around, it seems...

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Help

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I think the only Apple w/o a fan was the cube and we all know how that turned out.  They overheated, the case cracked for no reason and if you accidentally dropped a pen or screw or something over top of it.... well goodbye 4,000 piece of junk.

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Have you ever owned the cube?? Apple stopped production of the cube cause of demand problems(mainly becuase of price), not because of fragile cases. In fact if you do a little research, there are still a lot of proud cube owners out there with their cubes working.

Ever heard of Web Objects? Hell even Dell used it to power their own website back in the day.

.Net seems pretty much to like web services tied in closely with the client? (I'm not windows expert) and your saying that can't be done on a mac? Hmm right

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you can't program in VB.net, C#.net on a Mac. (Which will allow programmers to program with a very powerful UI like this.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there is any programing platform (that is supported on a mac) that allows that.

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randy_tho

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Have you ever owned the cube??

I was never that gullible. :)

I'm sure there are people out their that like theirs. But yeah Apple stopped selling them because of demand. What does that tell you? :)

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Grand Master

aristotle-dude

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Wow, a troll thread if I ever saw one.? You can always tell an Apple user because they're blinded by their faith in Steve.

You might want to take a trip outside of MacWorld and see the innovations of the PC world.? There is nothing the Mac can do that a PC can't do at half the price.?

Apple's 'resurgence' is more due to people's frustrations with Windows than Apple producing a better product.? It's also the reason Linux is 'gaining momentum'.? Everyone is looking for an alternative to Windows.

Is Apple products superior?? It depends on the individual's needs.? Some will always hate a Mac and others will love them no matter what happens.

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Innovations? What are you talking about? How is adding the same faster motherboard with the same BIOS crap as a 100 other companies innovative? Would it kill some of the big boys to spend a little bit of time to include bios support for firewire drive booting? Why didn't the PC industry consider switching over from the ancient BIOS over to Open Firmware?

There really is no product differentiation among PC makers because the rely on Intel/AMD and Phoenix for their technology. Many just use off the shelf motherboards.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? Why would they be frustrated with windows if it was not broken? I use windows at work every week day because the software we use and write runs on it.

People who aren't so computer-literate prefer Mac OS X because it's easier I guess. I like both Mac and PC, but I have to roll with PC because it supports everything I need at a cheaper price and I play alot of PC games so..

Bottom line is I could build a top PC with every needed accessory at the price of a mid-level Mac.

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That is one of the most ignorant trolls I've ever h:laugh::laugh: Look around neowin at the people who are windows users who either own or are purchasing macs. Are you sure you want to characterize us as computer-illite:rolleyes:lleyes: Careful, you don't want to upset mods.

You are a gamer obviously but if you think it's all about the hardware for everyone, I have to tell you that it's the "software" (ie. iLife 05) for many of us.

I don't get a hard on from high clock speeds, over-clocking or building computers.:pr />:p

PS. I'm trying to figure out how macs are a platform for computer-illiterates just because it's easy to us when under that friendly facade, beats a powerful *nix OS used in some of the world's fastest clusters. Hard to use != powerful.

As a developer, I have to tell you take the easier to use a program is, the harder it was to develop/design.

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g-n-t

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pc's ARE ditching the BIOS.

at least with pc's you know whats going on and what companies plan to do in the future. instead of watching steve jobs on some low-quality quicktime stream talk about teh latest language he added to OSX.

for a gamer, its a pc, no questions asked.

for the "software" people, its still a pc, but linux more than windows IMO. iLife is just overhyped useless crap. honestly. iTunes, all it does is play music. take a REAL mp3 player like amarok. it provides song recommendations, lyrics, downloads album covers, smart playlists, internet radio, visualization plugins(instead of just having one viz with iTunes), low memory ussage, DCOP support, compatible with iPods AND other mp3 players, plays just about every file format including ogg and WMA, etc.

iphoto is about as robust as MSpaint. it just zooms in and out of pictures. digiKam in linux is much better and provides much more advanced image editing functionality. and dont even get me started on the image products from Adobe that are pc-only.

iMovie=Windows Movie Maker. honestly. and for higher end stuff, windows and mac are about evenly matched...

iDVD-never used it before, but im sure its nothing too spetacular.

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Grand Master

redfish

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you know companies were moving away from the 'beige box' computer long before apple with imac, especially with laptops. the best example was sony vaios which when they came out were very slick looking. but the imac made a splash with so many pretty colors and the ability to pick it up. and it was good marketing. not many people liked the fruity imacs though, except for mac cultists. this is why apple has been moving towards white boxes. which not everyone likes either. but its good for marketing and is a fashion statement. so are ipods, which have problems compared to other mp3 players.

but i agree that apple has done some neat things in design. i think the design of the ipod is pretty slick, and the white notebooks. the idea of the mini mac is good, though it wouldnt cause me to switch because its still not worth it. this is probably as others said because apple is in a good position to do daring things like this in design, making itself into a fashion symbol. its ipod advertising campaign has been one of the best around.

though many of the features apple is saying they are inventing in tiger were first announced by microsoft and apple in its hubris is saying things like 'redmond, start your copiers'.

i mean so i think apple has done good things.. but saying apples out-innovate pcs is really just as much spin as you see in political campaigns

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Silverado Nomads

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Point is, Why even start threads like these?

You know what it's gonna end up being, but you do it anyway. Now I ask.

Who's the bigger troll?

I'm so tired of bashing on either side, but really the "elite" Mac side.

Example.

"Average Joe users asks the pros and cons for xp and linux.

Elite Mac user comes in and says "Use OSX CAUSE IT'S PERFECT", because as you know you can put osx on pc *cough*, AND osx was in the topic of the thread and everything.

(something to that effect)."

That is really annoying. Now if a windows user did that in another thread about OSX or Linux. Every MAC using mod this side of the information superhighway would ban him and delete his post in a matter of minutes.

In the end, I Like both. They are both fun to use, but to me I perfer pc's. Because that's what I grew up with.

Good-day to you all.

Edited by Kharhaz
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Grand Master

revvo

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And another thing. Apple doesn't have anything to do with the Gx processors anyway do they. I was sure IBM or was it Motorola that created these.  Motorola once made Mac cpus anyway.

Apple is a design and marketing company pretty much.

Sure they can be innovative at selling stuff.  Well at least people buy it for some reason.

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Was carefully reading replies and this one, well I just had to quote this ignorant mumbling f00l.

IBM are the makers of the PowerPC cpus which are used in Apple Macintosh computers, Gamecube, Xbox2 and so on.

Apple is a design and marketting company? Two things wrong with that comment

1) Design? Shows what you know. You are the typical average joe who just sees the outside of the apple products, the looks, the appearance and think that Apple are successfull cause of the "design".

OS-X is far superior to Windows XP when comparing the features that both operating systems provide. Nevermind the # of software available for windows, just compare O/S to O/S and OS-X is ahead by a longshot. Os-X had a graphics engine long ago before Microsoft came up with Avalon which is still in a very early stage. OS-X Tiger will be even more killer with things like Spotlight.

That being said, it's far from just "Design" with things like XGrid's, XServe's that are the most secure servers (nothing beats BSD) and their Powerbooks are MORE than innovating. They recently updated the Powerbooks page at apple.com showing that they boosted the speed of the G4 core. They are working on fitting that monster G5 cpu in that thin powerbook casing and I know they'll be successfull although it might be a while before we'll actually see or hear about them.

Marketting? well, doesn't every company market or is affiliated with a marketting company? 'Nuff said.

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aristotle-dude

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for the "software" people, its still a pc, but linux more than windows IMO. iLife is just overhyped useless crap. honestly. iTunes, all it does is play music. take a REAL mp3 player like amarok. it provides song recommendations, lyrics, downloads album covers, smart playlists, internet radio, visualization plugins(instead of just having one viz with iTunes), low memory ussage, DCOP support, compatible with iPods AND other mp3 players, plays just about every file format including ogg and WMA, etc.

iphoto is about as robust as MSpaint. it just zooms in and out of pictures. digiKam in linux is much better and provides much more advanced image editing functionality. and dont even get me started on the image products from Adobe that are pc-only.

iMovie=Windows Movie Maker. honestly. and for higher end stuff, windows and mac are about evenly matched...

iDVD-never used it before, but im sure its nothing too spetacular.

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iTunes has:song recommendations, downloads album covers, smart playlists, internet radio, visualization plugins, print CD Case liners, stream lossless music via airtunes etc.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/jukebox.html

Visualizers and DSPs:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ipod_itunes/

:rolleyes:

OGG Vorbis Support:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/lbramsay/misc/itunes-ogg.html

:p

Stop spreading FUD.

Does Windows Movie Maker support HDV? No?

http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/

If you've never used iDVD, why comment on it?

http://www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/explore.html

http://www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/featureoverview.html

GarageBand:

http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/explore.html

iPhoto

http://www.apple.com/ilife/iphoto/explore.html

Granted, Adobe's Photo Album has many of the same features now but the photo book feature is a killer.

iLife might not be what you're after but it does appeal to a lot of people. There is no need to troll.

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g-n-t

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comparing OS's form a usability standpoint is a bad idea. it is very subjective. i rank them linux-xp-osx, but you might rank them the complete opposite way.

tigers core image is just a longhorn ripoff quite frankly, as is a lot of the stuff in tiger.

the pb's will kill you manhood as it is, keeping the same formfactor with the G5 is impossible unless they underclock them.

apple did not invent stackable blade servers and why not just put BSD instead of osx. better/cheaper hardware and the OS is free.

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