[CyberMoss]

even assuming you're right. ps2 was an innovation (in as much as it used it's own custom built processing engine, which a lot of production studios found hard to code for). not put that up against the xbox1 which IS essentially a pc with some slightly customised parts and the xbox still wins hands down purely on a hardware front. In every area the xbox is more powerful than the ps2.

now, xbox2 ISN'T a modded pc, it's not as similar to pc architecture in the same way xbox1 was. Partly because microsoft now know it's not the way to design a console, and it probably also makes it easier for people to mod it. it uses custom processing and rendering hardware, pipelines, and cross-platform development tools which make it easier to develop games across the pc / xbox2 / and any other hardware platform that wishes to take on board the ms api's. it's so unlike pc's infact, that the development kit is said to be powermac based... yes, from microsoft. :)

you think ps3 will win, because you're a ps1+2 fan/owner/fanboy. I think gamers will win. I own a high spec pc, xbox, gamecube, and i get all the best games all the time. You may notice i don't own a ps2... the only downside being a lack of day1 GTA availability. i think i'll live without that for a couple of months tbh. :)

585474997[/snapback]

I'm curious....how do the graphics look for Gran Turismo when you play it on your high spec pc, Xbox, ...?

[Rix]

I'm curious....how do the graphics look for Gran Turismo when you play it on your high spec pc, Xbox, ...?

585475031[/snapback]

You do realise Project Gotham wipes the floor with GT graphicly, yeah?

[Laughing-Man]

I've been thinking, is it just me or does this whole situation seem like the Dreamcast again? A console is getting released with a Playstation system looming behind it. The only difference is that Sega didn't have the funds to pump into its console after it started to fail. However Microsoft is able to pump in money to the XBox 2 similar to what they did with the release of the XBox to keep it in the market, after they were losing money with each console they sold. I don't even see how developers can even have games ready for the release when they gave the final version of the dev kits out at the end of last year. It usually takes more then a year to make a good game that isn't half-assed.

[mircleman]

Though it didn't cite a source, the Team Xbox article did present an awful lot of detail about the Cell chip. Sounding very much like a technical manual, the article described the processor as "a multicore chip comprising a 64-bit Power processor core and multiple synergistic processor cores capable of massive floating-point processing. Cell is optimized for computation-intensive workloads and broadband-rich media applications, including computer entertainment, movies, and other forms of digital content." It went on to break down many features of the chip, including how it simultaneously supports multiple operating systems, its flexible on-chip input/output interface, and its 90-nanometer architecture. While all well and good, that information was already public thanks to papers Sony filed last year in preparation for the 2005 IEEE International Solid-State Circuits Conference. What is new is the Cell's speed of 4.6GHz. That processor speed is a milestone, especially considering that Intel had to abandon its 4GHz chip due to heat issues. According to Team Xbox, representatives from all three companies working on the Cell--Toshiba, IBM, and Sony--will reveal the speed and present the chip in detail at the IEEE ISSCC in San Francisco in February.

http://www.gametab.com/news/219114/

we shall indeed see ps2 fans im willing to bet alot of money x box wins this.

[vcv]

I'll bet against you. How much?

[ichi]

No matter how powerfull Xbox's and ps3's hardware is, at the end of the day is all about the games... that's why people buy consoles, isn't it?

I think the console with more appealing games with win that next round... and while I'm not really into console games, seems like Sony has some successful series around whose next iteration will surely appeal potential buyers right after the console release (dunno, maybe another GTA or Final Fantasy) :huh:

[AaronC]

"'Halo 2?' It's the greatest video game ever written."

Its alright...the greatest...no

585473284[/snapback]

true, very over hyped just the xbox 2.

[PrototypeX2]

Here are some early shots taken by Microsoft:

w00t Batman :cool:

[x-byte]

"Why do people buy one game console over another? As we say around here, 'Duh, it's the games.' Partly they're great games because they have great graphics,..

That's the most stupid claim in a while... Great graphics = great games... lol Good games? X-box doesn't have the range of games like Nintendo and Sony have, not even close.

And talking about good games, Nintendo have the largest range of them all. This is pure lies and nothing else. They're starting the hype just like Sony.

[HeavyTwenty]

Nintendo is dead IMO, they have nothing left.  The console department stinks and the handheld sides is slowly getting overrun in japan by PSP.

585473435[/snapback]

At my university we have a gaming room with 2 Game Cubes, 2 PS2, 2 Xboxes, 2 Nintendo 64s (and also a separate PC LAN room where I spend most of my time :)). Only time I see people playing PS2 is when they're playing that new GTA game or MGS 3. They are only on the Xbox to play either ESPN/Madden 2005 or Halo 2. The Game Cubes probably get about two times more use than all the other consoles combined. Honestly, I thought it was strange to see 18-25 year olds playing a "kiddy" console system :huh:.

[mircleman]

I'll bet against you.  How much?

585476255[/snapback]

I have a million dollors says they wont beat xbox after both systems are out in hardware, software or sales.

[Laughing-Man]

At my university we have a gaming room with 2 Game Cubes, 2 PS2, 2 Xboxes, 2 Nintendo 64s (and also a separate PC LAN room where I spend most of my time :)). Only time I see people playing PS2 is when they're playing that new GTA game or MGS 3. They are only on the Xbox to play either ESPN/Madden 2005 or Halo 2. The Game Cubes probably get about two times more use than all the other consoles combined. Honestly, I thought it was strange to see 18-25 year olds playing a "kiddy" console system :huh:.

585476753[/snapback]

Oh its not weird. There is nothing wrong with 18-25 year olds playing bongos and clapping their hands :D. It even gets the ladies involved too unless if you live in an all male residence, which would suck. They are usually like "what the hell are you guys playing?!" Then before you know it the bongos are too much and they are sucked in and are joining in the festivities. Edited February 15, 2005 by jmole

[at0mican]

I never really thought much of Sony's product, so I am very skeptical about PS 3.

On the other hand XBox 1 was very good, so onto XBox 2 or whatever they call it. (Y)

[vcv]

I have a million dollors says they wont beat xbox  after both systems are out in  hardware, software or sales.

585476759[/snapback]

In total sales? Well, you have to give the other systems some slack since Xbox will be out first.

Give them a few years, and I'll place a bet on that :) Xbox 2 simply cant match the hardware capabilities of the PS3 and the power of vector processing.

[Venturas]

so many Sony & Nintendo trolls in this thread...eh

[jerry]

Xbox 2 simply cant match the hardware capabilities of the PS3 and the power of vector processing.

585477854[/snapback]

I suppose you are into some really confidential specs on both Xbox2 & PS3 to say that :D

[Slimy]

he says a lot for one that hasn't seen what nintendo and sony are cooking up

[seafirex]

I think people that dont like microsoft are the one that keeps blowing them away when they speek about the xbox 2 as better then ever and better then competition.

As per the fact stay's that yes xbox one was better the nps2 and nintendo game cube and all other before.

The reason is the following, they have the biggest game compagnie behind them, they on the other hands had a lot of title publish for there first console.

The have the best graphic in there console right now.

Still ps2 is good but graphic is not as good as xbox.

Also the xbox can be modded and not ps2, yes ps2 as the avantage of having backward compatibility but still can't do half of what we can do with the xbox.

I tried ps2, nintendo game cube and xbox. And still i go for the xbox without thinking twice.

The reason , more power, more ram, more options.etc.etc.etc. and i could go on and on like that.

Ps3 might be good but lets wait and see first, halo2 rocks and there is other game that playstation as that xbox dont have that could be cool to have on the xbox, but a if we had them playstation would go bankrupt.

my 2 cents.

And please dont start war on this. You all know that microsoft is not loved by us but we have to give credits to who deserves it.

SeaFireX

[Nvidia]

This might be what part of what he's refering to that would push the X-Box 2 way over everything else.

I haven't read specific details on the patent - not enough time. But if anyone wants to break the stuff down and let everyone know what this could do performance-wise, it might help us understand the claims made by the CEO.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20919

Also, here's an article I found on an X-Box Modding Website relaying information on the "Xenon". I have absolutely no clue if it's true or not, this was just copied and pasted.

Basic Hardware Specifications

Xenon is powered by a 3.5+ GHz IBM PowerPC processor and a 500+ MHz ATI graphics processor. Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory. Xenon runs a custom operating system based on Microsoft? Windows NT?, similar to the Xbox operating system. The graphics interface is a superset of Microsoft? Direct3D? version 9.CPU

The Xenon CPU is a custom processor based on PowerPC technology. The CPU includes three independent processors (cores) on a single die. Each core runs at 3.5+ GHz. The Xenon CPU can issue two instructions per clock cycle per core. At peak performance, Xenon can issue 21 billion instructions per second. The Xenon CPU was designed by IBM in close consultation with the Xbox team, leading to a number of revolutionary additions, including a dot product instruction for extremely fast vector math and custom security features built directly into the silicon to prevent piracy and hacking. Each core has two symmetric hardware threads (SMT), for a total of six hardware threads available to games. Not only does the Xenon CPU include the standard set of PowerPC integer and floating-point registers (one set per hardware thread), the Xenon CPU also includes 128 vector (VMX) registers per hardware thread. This astounding number of registers can drastically improve the speed of common mathematical operations. Each of the three cores includes a 32-KB L1 instruction cache and a 32-KB L1 data cache. The three cores share a 1-MB L2 cache. The L2 cache can be locked down in segments to improve performance. The L2 cache also has the very unusual feature of being directly readable from the GPU, which allows the GPU to consume geometry and texture data from L2 and main memory simultaneously. Xenon CPU instructions are exposed to games through compiler intrinsics, allowing developers to access the power of the chip using C language notatioGPU

The Xenon GPU is a custom 500+ MHz graphics processor from ATI. The shader core has 48 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALUs) that can execute 64 simultaneous threads on groups of 64 vertices or pixels. ALUs are automatically and dynamically assigned to either pixel or vertex processing depending on load. The ALUs can each perform one vector and one scalar operation per clock cycle, for a total of 96 shader operations per clock cycle. Texture loads can be done in parallel to ALU operations. At peak performance, the GPU can issue 48 billion shader operations per second. The GPU has a peak pixel fill rate of 4+ gigapixels/sec (16 gigasamples/sec with 4? antialiasing). The peak vertex rate is 500+ million vertices/sec. The peak triangle rate is 500+ million triangles/sec. The interesting point about all of these values is that they?re not just theoretical?they are attainable with nontrivial shaders. Xenon is designed for high-definition output. Included directly on the GPU die is 10+ MB of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM). A 720p frame buffer fits very nicely here. Larger frame buffers are also possible because of hardware-accelerated partitioning and predicated rendering that has little cost other than additional vertex processing. Along with the extremely fast EDRAM, the GPU also includes hardware instructions for alpha blending, z-test, and antialiasing. The Xenon graphics architecture is a unique design that implements a superset of Direct3D version 9.0. It includes a number of important extensions, including additional compressed texture formats and a flexible tessellation engine. Xenon not only supports high-level shading language (HLSL) model 3.0 for vertex and pixel shaders but also includes advanced shader features well beyond model 3.0. For instance, shaders use 32-bit IEEE floating-point math throughout. Vertex shaders can fetch from textures, and pixel shaders can fetch from vertex streams. Xenon shaders also have the unique ability to directly access main memory, allowing techniques that have never before been possible. As with Xbox, Xenon will support precompiled push buffers (?command buffers? in Xenon terminology), but to a much greater extent than the Xbox console does. The Xbox team is exposing and documenting the command buffer format so that games are able to harness the GPU much more effectively. In addition to an extremely powerful GPU, Xenon also includes a very high-quality resize filter. This filter allows consumers to choose whatever output mode they desire. Xenon automatically scales the game?s output buffer to the consumer-choseMemory and Bandwidthd Bandwidth

Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory, equally accessible to both the GPU and CPU. The main memory controller resides on the GPU (the same as in the Xbox architecture). It has 22.4+ GB/sec aggregate bandwidth to RAM, distributed between reads and writes. Aggregate means that the bandwidth may be used for all reading or all writing or any combination of the two. Translated into game performance, the GPU can consume a 512?512?32-bpp texture in only 47 microseconds. The front side bus (FSB) bandwidth peak is 10.8 GB/sec for reads and 10.8 GB/sec for writes, over 20 times faster than for Xbox. Note that the 22.4+ GB/sec main memory bandwidth is shared between the CPU and GPU. If, for example, the CPU is using 2 GB/sec for reading and 1 GB/sec for writing on the FSB, the GPU has 19.4+ GB/sec available for accessing RAM. Eight pixels (where each pixel is color plus z = 8 bytes) can be sent to the EDRAM every GPU clock cycle, for an EDRAM write bandwidth of 32 GB/sec. Each of these pixels can be expanded through multisampling to 4 samples, for up to 32 multisampled pixel samples per clock cycle. With alpha blending, z-test, and z-write enabled, this is equivalent to having 256 GB/sec of effective bandwidth! The important thing is that frame buffer bandwidth will never slow downAudioPU.

Audio

The Xenon CPU is a superb processor for audio, particularly with its massive mathematical horsepower and vector register set. The Xenon CPU can process and encode hundreds of audio channels with sophisticated per-voice and global effects, all while using a fraction of the power of a single CPU core. The Xenon system south bridge also contains a key hardware component for audio?XMA decompression. XMA is the native Xenon compressed audio format, based on the WMA Pro architecture. XMA provides sound quality higher than ADPCM at even better compression ratios, typically 6:1?12:1. The south bridge contains a full silicon implementation of the XMA decompression algorithm, including support for multichannel XMA sources. XMA is processed by the south bridge into standard PCM format in RAM. All other sound processing (sample rate conversion, filtering, effects, mixing, and multispeaker encoding) happens on the Xenon CPU. The lowest-level Xenon audio software layer is XAudio, a new API designed for optimal digital signal processing. The Xbox Audio Creation Tool (XACT) API from Xbox is also supported, along with new features such as conditional events, improved parameter control, and a more flexibInput/Output

Input/Output

As with Xbox, Xenon is designed to be a multiplayer console. It has built-in networking support including an Ethernet 10/100-BaseT port. It supports up to four controllers. From an audio/video standpoint, Xenon will support all the same formats as Xbox, including multiple high-definition formats up through 1080i, plus VGA output. In order to provide greater flexibility and support a wider variety of attached devices, the Xenon console includes standard USB 2.0 ports. This feature allows the console to potentially host storage devices, cameras, microphones,Storageices.

Storage

The Xenon console is designed around a larger world view of storage than Xbox was. Games will have access to a variety of storage devices, including connected devices (memory units, USB storage) and remote devices (networked PCs, Xbox Live?). At the time of this writing, the decision to include a built-in hard disk in every Xenon console has not been made. If a hard disk is not included in every console, it will certainly be available as an integrated add-on component.Xenon supports up to two attached memory units (MUs). MUs are connected directly to the console, not to controllers as on Xbox. The initial size of the MUs is 64 MB, although larger MUs may be available in the future. MU throughput is expected to be around 8 MB/sec for reads and 1 MB/sec for writes.The Xenon game disc drive is a 12? DVD, with an expected outer edge throughput of 16+ MB/sec. Latency is expected to be in the neighborhood of 100 ms. The media format will be similar to Xbox, with approximately 6 GB of usable space on the disk. As on Xbox, media will be stored on a single siIndustrial DesignIndustrial Design

The Xenon industrial design process is well under way, but the final look of the box has not been determined. The Xenon console will be smaller than the Xbox console. The standard Xenon controller will have a look and feel similar to the Xbox controller. The primary changes are the removal of the Black and White buttons and the addition of shoulder buttons. The triggers, thumbsticks, D-pad, and primary buttons are essentially unchanged. The controller will support vibration.

A load of BS, or the truth? You guys decide...NOsaid... I take NO credit whatsoever for this information.

[Hypoxiaicon]

You do realise Project Gotham wipes the floor with GT graphicly, yeah?

585475107[/snapback]

There is so much I could say to that.

But for the sake of this thread integrety, I'll pass.

[Shetland]

i havnt read the whole thread, but i notice people keep commenting on why halo2 is so popular/great,

among other things, its the multiplayer, i for one have never seen such a perfect multiplayer environment for Xbox Live,

truthfully its only worth having halo2 if you have live.

the singleplayer game is great... the first time round.

but i play the multiplayer game constantly on xbox live, its just great.

lag-free, fun, challenging etc.

only problem is the occasional cheater, but if everyone on your team leaves bad feedback on that cheater, chances are the next day they are banned.

[Nelsinho]

:laugh: I already know Mr. Ballmer since long long time :laugh: :laugh: so no news in this time

[L3thal Veteran]

There is so much I could say to that.

But for the sake of this thread integrety, I'll pass.

585478603[/snapback]

Good choice (Y)

[mircleman]

thats because if those stats are true which i think they are, the debates over lol

[Cyber Dog]

in?no?va?tion Audio pronunciation of "innovation" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-vshn)

n.

1. The act of introducing something new.

2. Something newly introduced.

Quite frankly I've been seeing altogether too much abuse of this word lately. Now I'm not saying XBox and PS and whatever else aren't new and improved...there's no doubt about that. But I dont think ramping up processing power is a massive innovation. It happens every other week in the computer world. Consoles have been new and improved every couple years since they were invented. Biiiig deal. Now if the new version comes with a virtual reality kit...or even 3-D goggles...*that* would be innovative. :"In soviet russia, video game plays YOU!"/i>