[g-n-t]

And i know wtf i'm talking about. I went to school for 3D animation and we all used PC platform and just macs for Photoshop, after that i transferred schools

and started going to University of computer technology They use ALL PC's too, sure that is jsut 2 schools. BUT thats just not any rinky dink tech school there accredited and well known. What your speaking is pure blindness.

585495728[/snapback]

same here. there is a room with some b&w G3's and G4 windtunnels :laugh: that we use for photoshop. the engineering/architecture/3danimation lab is all PC's. it has some Intergraphs, some BOXX's and teh custom built dual opterons. the webdesign lab is all pc's as well. those are also used for basic 3d design(they are OLD computers) and some photoshop as well.

[g-n-t]

And I'm sure alot if not most schools use PC's. Number one reason, cost.

585495746[/snapback]

considering he hasa budget, he should use pc's as well.

but our opterons were in the neighborhood of 7G's and the intergraphs(they are 7 years old now) were 11G's when they were bought. much more than any mac out there...

[blik]

Meh... I'm fighting a losing battle here, but when you all get into industry, you'll realise first hand that mac's are superior when it comes to graphics.

[vincent]

Meh... I'm fighting a losing battle here, but when you all get into the industry, you'll realise first hand that mac's are superior when it comes to graphics.

585495773[/snapback]

All fixed for you there Mr. Grammar expert :)

:sleep:

[blik]

All fixed for you there Mr. Grammar expert :)

:sleep:

585495777[/snapback]

Well, lets hope you do a grammar check on your CV :) and just the your, you're thing ****s me off, because everyone does it as if its correct.

But otherwise that post sums up the height of your intelligence, and really added to the debate...

[alkaholikc]

My co-op animation studio had mostly or all PC's. The macs were used for some publishing and print production. When they had tight deadlines the machines would turn into rendering mode across like 24 PCs. Gave the loft a nice glow (: So my choice would be gfx/video-mac & 3d ani-pc. Serious stuff - SGis :p

[vincent]

Well, lets hope you do a grammar check on your CV :) and just the your, you're thing ****s me off, because everyone does it as if its correct.

But otherwise that post sums up the height of your intelligence, and really added to the debate...

585495788[/snapback]

To get teed off at someones grammar on a message board makes you more intellectually superior to me then eh?

[TEX4S]

Well, lets hope you do a grammar check on your CV :) and just the your, you're thing ****s me off, because everyone does it as if its correct.

But otherwise that post sums up the height of your intelligence, and really added to the debate...

585495788[/snapback]

Calm down, get back on topic...

And if you want to get technical the word is r-e-a-l-i-z-e, not realiSe. and the word "that" should never be used as it can always be omitted or substituted...

Now lets get back on topic :)

[g-n-t]

"Jesus Christ (excuse my blasphemy) but the grammar of kids nowadays is disgracefull, and I see it everywhere on neowin now. Its you're NOT your"

whereas this little gem did not detract from the thread at all and was not off topic :rolleyes:

and im sure youre in the "industry"

[blik]

To get teed off at someones grammar on a message board makes you more intellectually superior to me then eh?

585495794[/snapback]

No, but if you insist, I'm sure most people are, infact that rock I see outside my window would give you a run for its money.

Edit, cwalker2734 im not american ;)

[vincent]

No, but if you insist, I'm sure most people are, infact that rock I see outside my window would give you a run for its money.

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:hug_guy:

[~clean]

BTW, 3d Studio Max is ######, i was just using it as an example for 3d graphic modelling software etc, we will be using decent software. Both compatible with mac and win so you can cancel that out of your arguements. :p

585495727[/snapback]

Don?t discredit max as you probably be using it, especially for games design. Either that or Maya.

If your going for games design and general design go for a windows based system. I would love to say go for a Mac but since your probably going into mods and stuff [ ut2004, HL2 ect .. ] then a pc would be a better system to look at.

Since your are still learning and studying on it don?t look at a full blown pro specked system, waste of money when in your position.

You want to look for a basic 3ghz p4 or AMD similar based system. Get a mobo that supports SATA and dual channel ram. Nothing DDR2 based as that will like system prices.

Have 1-2gb ram as it will be used great in rendering. 3200 will do fine as you wont be over clocking.

Get a reasonable graphics card, 6800 or a x800 based one will do perfect. One reason for them is because they are gaming cards they will work fine for you to test your games/mods out on.

Get about 250gb of HDD space, don?t worry all that much about raid and such as it wont be worth it really for what you are suing it for, with the money saved on a raid get a high speed DVD-rw and lots of disks for backing up your data.

Get a quiet case like a senota [ however you spell it] as it will keep your stuff in fine and be quiet and not distract you.

Not look at all the money you saved and get something you really need, a big Monitor .

Look at something like a nice 20"+ Display as you will really want it when working in 3d and other graphic works. a CRT or a quick LCD, though probably go with a FLAT crt myself.

Most of the spec at the end of the day will go down to personal preference as you may favour a AMD system or a Intel your choice.

[TEX4S]

Back on topic:

I will say this, as the G5 was bought for my girlfriend and now collects dust there were aspects of it I wished were adopted by M$, the fact you can fix glitches by correcting Disk Permissions is great (the same as Windows Registry, which always causes problems) - but I am at a total loss when working on the thing as everything is so bassackwards it doesnt make sense to me, Ive been BillGatesorized I guess..

:edit:

~clean, I think your post makes a lot of sense, a powerful gaming card can handle pretty much anything you throw at it.

A big, good monitor is pretty important, I bought the 20" Cinema Display and used a standard 17" LCD as well, it is a nice setup, I wish those Cinema Displays were practical for the pc.

Edited February 19, 2005 by cwalker2734

[g-n-t]

he has a good point, a big monitor is important. get that new dell 24" lcd if you can afford it. if not, get a viewsonic CRT. but dont get a high-end gaming card. get a workstation card. gaming cards dont render the scene correctly, no matter how fast they are. they are not designed for it. if you read the maya release notes(or some other document on their site, somewhere) it lists all teh problems with using a gamer card to do 3d design.

[dougal.s]

Some of you guys need to visit your local marijuana outlet!! ;)

If it was purely 2D and video editing/sfx you were going to be doing, I wouldn't think twice about recommending a Mac. My current iBook (See sig) is about 30% faster running Photoshop benchmarks than the PC I had until recently was (Athlon XP 2800+, 512Mb DDR 400, Radeon 9800 Pro). The same goes for it's average SETI@Home time, which since being arithmetically heavy on the processor, uses similar instructions to phtoshop.

I don't have much experience of 3D, but certainly would say that having used Maya for a short while on both platforms, the PC seems slightly better at it. The two machines were a G5 Dual 2.5Ghz, and a dual Opteron 248.

I love my Mac, but I'm going to buy a PC this summer for gaming and 3D work, and it is definitely going to be an AMD64 proc. Opteron or Athlon 64? I'm not sure yet. The stability of the Opteron appeals to me a fair bit, but the increased price (needs registered memory) means I will probably get an Athlon 64.

With only ?2k I think that a high end DP Mac or Opteron machine are maybe not an option, especially when you buy 1G+ of RAM. Check it out though.

You need to make a shortlist of what the machine needs to run, taking into account popular apps and what you will really use. If both platforms come up trumps, go have a shot of both built as workstations and go from there.

Note: At my Uni they run......

Comp Sci, Engineering, Physics etc: X86 Linux.

Architecture, Multimedia labs: Macs, even for the 3D architecture stuff.

3D animation: All three!!

Everywhere is going to use different machines for different jobs, it depends where you go, and who you speak to. Ultimately the best machine is the one you can afford, and the one you feel most comfortable with.

Dougal.

[ManMountain]

A Power Mac G5 with a 6800/9800XT graphics card is indeed a powerful monster.

However, an ATI FireGL or a Nvidia Quadro workstation card absolutely lays the smack down on these standard "gaming" cards.

The certified drivers for these cards from ATI/Nvidia offer OpenGL application specific optimisations when accelerating LightWave, 3DSMax etc and are 20-400% faster dependant on tasks performed when compared to the latest "gaming" cards. When you purchase a workstation class card, it's the quality of the drivers AND the hardware that your paying for.

There is simply no comparison comparing workstation cards to gaming cards. The PC with a dual CPU setup, lots of ram and fast drives plus a workstation card IS the best solution for modelling in 3D.

The MAC is a great system, but for your needs, a workstation PC fits your needs.

Edited February 19, 2005 by ManMountain

[~clean]

he has a good point, a big monitor is important. get that new dell 24" lcd if you can afford it. if not, get a viewsonic CRT. but dont get a high-end gaming card. get a workstation card. gaming cards dont render the scene correctly, no matter how fast they are. they are not designed for it. if you read the maya release notes(or some other document on their site, somewhere) it lists all teh problems with using a gamer card to do 3d design.

585495833[/snapback]

Yeah but the thing is he's still learning so getting a pro card out the box would realy be a waste of money he could be putting into the system in getting something else, like lots of coke for those late night renders.

A year or 2 down the line when he will get full use of all those ray-trace features on the pro card would be time to get one, but i wouldnt reccomend getting one when first learning. Would be out of date before you used all the features of it.

[Jimny]

just get a damn pc. with that relatively limited budget, a pc can knock the pants off of a G5. get yourself a dual opteron and a few gigs of ram and a good video card and youll be set. dont listen to them, they are the fanboys.

You're stupid. You're a windows fanboy and have no clue what you are babbling about. A dual opteron is an expensive setup.

Macs are superior when it comes to graphics. I have worked on an old Power PC 166Mhz mac 384MB ram, and created massive 400MB psd's, throw that same file on a 1Ghz PC 512MB RAM (that was top pc at the time of using that mac) and it fell over itself just opeing the file.

Thank you for your comment. However, we're interested in modern computers now. The state of computers in the stone age is of no concern to us.

Its not about openmindedness, macs are better, period.

And it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you can substantiate your claim either, does it? Are macs better for developing software that the majority of users will be able to run? Are they better for gaming?

Go into a graphic design studio, and the only pc you'll see is the NT storage server.

Have you been to a graphic design studio before?

PSD's that are over 150 layers, working in real dimensions (eg 2 meters by 3 meters at 300DPI which is required for repro ready work), and you get PSD files in excess of 800MB. PC's just cant cope.

Have you used a PC before? It seems to me like you are just making this up.

And at the end of the day, its the megahurtz myth, and even more specifically the architecture of the CPU, macs use risc processors and they are far superior at intensive maths than the cisc IBM PC architecture, period.

Reading apple's 'myths' page doesn't make you an expert on anything. Stop pretending to be one.

I'm sick of this mac vs pc crap. Mac are better at graphics, period.

So am I. It's dip****s like you that fuel the fire with their unsubstantiated claims.

If they werent, every graphics studio would be cutting costs, switching to PC's and apple would go out of business (seriously, Apple have their market, and its proffesionals).

Maybe you don't know about pixar mainly using linux. They did it to cut costs. And they are owned by Steve Jobs.

I'm no fanboy, I know what im talking about.

No you don't.

When it comes to the bigboys of 3d, do you honestly think they are using a PC? Sunmicrosystems workstations are used...

585495713[/snapback]

The big boys use all different platforms for 3d. And actually not many people use sun workstations for 3d. I think you meant SGI. Oh wait, no you didn't. You were just mindlessly babbling and have no idea what you are talking about.

[TEX4S]

^^ WOW ^^

[g-n-t]

just to clarify, im not entirely sure how much 2k pounds is in terms of US dollars. but he could always get an athlon MP or a single athlon64

and i use linux. i am the furthest thing from a windows fanboy.

[ManMountain]

?2,000 = $3792.19

[dougal.s]

Jimny: Well said.

Just thought, if it is a student that is buying this machine (Or if he knows a student ;)) he can get Educational discount from Apple.

As Jimny said, Pixar use Linux, do any of you guys know if there are any websites that document Pixar's tooling? I want to know about what workstations/apps/server farm in particulat. Ta.

Dougal.

[g-n-t]

Jimny: Well said.

Just thought, if it is a student that is buying this machine (Or if he knows a student ;)) he can get Educational discount from Apple.

As Jimny said, Pixar use Linux, do any of you guys know if there are any websites that document Pixar's tooling? I want to know about what workstations/apps/server farm in particulat. Ta.

Dougal.

585495887[/snapback]

speaking of educational discounts, our computer lab has 30 computers. we got a license to all of them to use 3dsmax6 for just 3000 dollars. thats 100 a license. maya was charging 3000 a license for maya complete. so keep that in mind...

[mastermik]

I dont know if its true.. but somewhere on the net, i have seen something about microsoft using a powermac G5 for their Xbox 2 development.

enough said.

[TEX4S]

I dont know if its true.. but somewhere on the net, i have seen something about microsoft using a powermac G5 for their Xbox 2 development.

enough said.

585495918[/snapback]

enough said, and YOU even claim you're not sure if its true ?? (contradicting yourself)