An idiot's view on "Tiger"


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There is a big difference between a PDA & a notebook pc.

Apple was never able to do the PDA right. But Microsoft got it right with over 50% market share.

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Such as? There is a difference in scale and capacity but they are used for similar things like *GASP* entering in data through hand writing recognition.

Again, you are confusing the implementation with the end result for the user.

Implementation does "not" matter for an end user.

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what people fail to see is that some things are natural evolvements. things that, in order for computers to get more friendly and be used in more places, have to be done. The slate thing is only the most natural though. so is the whole search paradigm. so it's not necessarily one copying the other, but one evolving alongside the other based on the same paradigms :p

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menge well i agree with you, and i think this includes integration of browsers into the OS. microsoft was responding to pressures from sun and netscape when they did this. its the same thing with incorporating indexed search into the os, which is an obvious response to search engines on the web. with winfs it goes a step further since its incorporating developments from .NET and XML (influenced by Java and the web) and SQL databases.

a lot of what is in macos today also is there because of major efforts on microsofts part, for isntance to push things like OLE and context menus, even though they didnt invent the concepts by themselves.

a lot of whats being developed and what isnt i think you'll see is being driven by different types of competitive pressures, which is both good and bad. i really dont like arguments about copying for this reason... but when you see things like Apple putting posters like "Redmond, start your photocopiers" thare clearly BS that ****es me off.

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You should read the new features once again before opening your wide already open open mouth again.

Tiger integrates the desktop search in the system, it contains crapload of updates to built-in software, new developer tools (which can still be downloaded for free)...

XP SP2 was free because it doesn't have any new features.

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read all of aitf311's posts, does XP SP2 have features now?

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Oh my...do yourself a favor and stick to the Macintosh world where you actually know what you're talking about.

Take a look at the Media Mania example on this page:

http://www.erain.com/products/zam3d/examples/

It's a completely dynamic front-end to the Amazon.com marketplace built using XAML and the 3D APIs in Avalon. You can flip the CD case around and read the track-listing, just like you would if you went to the local music store. It makes for a much richer, life-like interaction.

Now let's look at the same concept (an Amazon front-end) implemented using XUL:

http://www.faser.net/mab/remote.cfm

See the difference? Try doing something similar to the Media Mania example with the same level of ease as XAML/Avalon using SVG, XUL, or whatever else floats your boat. It might be possible, but it takes much, much more work.

This is just one example of the interest and excitement surrounding XAML and Avalon. Third-party software vendors and developers are already using deveoper preview bits to create really neat stuff like this. And it's just the start. So much for your claims that all of this is vaporware. It's right in front of your eyes. Real software developers and people who matter see it and realize the advantages. It doesn't matter what a bunch of fanboys on a forum think.

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Flash.

I don't give a fly rat's ass about how an interface is designed/saved etc. I use Visual Studio at work to develop software for corporate environments, so I really don't care give a crap about XAML. It does not make my life easier as a developer. What I do care about is security and performance. The GUI stuff is the least of my concerns. All I care about is usability and developing the back end code.

It's nice to see that MSFT is wasting it's time on this kind of crap instead of fixing problems with windows.

:rolleyes:

I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to windows but I really don't care about alpha/beta quality software and incomplete technology.

WTF are you don't here in the mac forum?

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Flash.

I don't give a fly rat's ass about how an interface is designed/saved etc. I use Visual Studio at work to develop software for corporate environments, so I really don't care give a crap about XAML. It does not make my life easier as a developer. What I do care about is security and performance. The GUI stuff is the least of my concerns. All I care about is usability and developing the back end code.

It's nice to see that MSFT is wasting it's time on this kind of crap instead of fixing problems with windows.

:rolleyes:

I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to windows but I really don't care about alpha/beta quality software and incomplete technology.

WTF are you don't here in the mac forum?

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Yeah, but people who use your programs might care about the visual interface of your programs... that's why MSFT created XAML to make the visual interface of programs less generic and expand possibility with the introduction of true 3D visual interface. Let the programmer do his work and not worry about the visual interface and leave it to the designer do the work.

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Seems to me this topic has gone way off course.

Bottom line.. The guy is an idiot as the topic suggest he should stick to windows.

Saying XP > SP2 is like Panther > Tiger Just makes him lose all credibility.

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I don't give a fly rat's ass about how an interface is designed/saved etc. I use Visual Studio at work to develop software for corporate environments, so I really don't care give a crap about XAML. It does not make my life easier as a developer. What I do care about is security and performance. The GUI stuff is the least of my concerns. All I care about is usability and developing the back end code.

See, that's the problem with you. You think the world revolves around you. Look around you. Look at what people are doing with XAML and Avalon even before the final bits are released. These are real companies with real developers creating real software with new, unique and useable user interfaces. You might not care what your software looks and behaves like. That doesn't mean it's a waste of time.

WTF are you don't here in the mac forum?

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Amusing myself reading the rubbish that you post. :laugh:

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Yeah, but people who use your programs might care about the visual interface of your programs... that's why MSFT created XAML to make the visual interface of programs less generic and expand possibility with the introduction of true 3D visual interface. Let the programmer do his work and not worry about the visual interface and leave it to the designer do the work.

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Sure and that is great an all but most people, especially in the corporate world care about consistency and usability. Most studies would point out that the former leads to the latter.

A rotating 3D globe may look nice but it will not make an application more usable.

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Brian, OLE was stolen from OS/2, Talligent/Pink Project and Opendoc The latter two were collaborations between Apple and IBM.

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aristotle-dude, im sure you know microsoft collaborated on OS/2.. i dont know about OLE aspects, except from what i've read in the past, microsoft was one of the partners involved in designing OLE.. but anyway, who invented the concept wasnt my point. microsoft was heavily involved in pushing it forward in the industry and developing it further, and making it central, just like now theyre pushing XML in similar ways.

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See, that's the problem with you. You think the world revolves around you. Look around you. Look at what people are doing with XAML and Avalon even before the final bits are released. These are real companies with real developers creating real software with new, unique and useable user interfaces. You might not care what your software looks and behaves like. That doesn't mean it's a waste of time.

Amusing myself reading the rubbish that you post. :laugh:

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Unique and usable user interfaces?

:rofl: :laugh:

That's an oxymoron. Many Linux GUI apps have their own "unique" style and layout but that does not lend itself to usability or reduce the learning curve.

I would consider it a step backwards towards the DOS days when every application had it's own UI "standard" making it very difficult to move from one application to another.

I don't think the world revolves around me. I'm just looking out for the average joe who has to use computers to do their job. They are not "geeks" who are "into" computers and view computers as frustrating "tools" that don't see to work right.

You really should go read up on UI design and look at the various HIG documents out there.

:rolleyes:

You seem obsessed with the "technology" instead of trying to build usable interfaces. No wonder I see so many crappy interfaces on windows.

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Sure and that is great an all but most people, especially in the corporate world care about consistency and usability. Most studies would point out that the former leads to the latter.

A rotating 3D globe may look nice but it will not make an application more usable.

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I guess that XAML gives more advantages to certain industries more than others. For example look at the "Manufacturing" video from this site. http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/product...id/default.aspx

Obviously, we have solutions that does the same job today as the demo application does, but with the graphical interface in the demo, it's much more easier to control and moniter the machinary, than a bunch of graphs or raw numbers along with a couple of text labels.

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i don't think anyone has mentioned that apple isnt forcing people to buy Tiger, There is nothing wrong with panther, unlike early windows versions, panther is stable and reliable...in fact all mac os x versions are. Apple has said from the start that they wanted to create a stable OS then add to it, if people are willing to pay.

i know im buying Tiger.

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I guess that XAML gives more advantages to certain industries more than others. For example look at the "Manufacturing" video from this site. http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/product...id/default.aspx

Obviously, we have solutions that does the same job today as the demo application does, but with the graphical interface in the demo, it's much more easier to control and moniter the machinary, than a bunch of graphs or raw numbers along with a couple of text labels.

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That stuff looks nice, but all if it could already be done on OS X if somebody wanted to write the apps.

WinFS is one of the main features they talk about, and it is not even going to be in longhorn anymore.

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I think the post stating that panther->Tiger Win2k -> WinXP is the most simple and direct comparison of the difference.

You can only compare WinXP SP2 with the Macs 10.3.x line of fixes.

I too am surprised that Paul did a review like this as he is only a Windows Reviewer, and should really stick to talk about new technologies from Microsoft.

Media Center PC's are growing very quick 2004 made in roads and 2005 cleaned up a lot of feature requests from users. (I own a MCE 2004, and have built 2005's). This is not a mistake from Microsoft and i am waiting for apple to release a similar product which can be connected to TV's and manage Media on Mac's.

Tablet PC's are the strangest market of them all they seem to grow stagnent and a lot of ppl confuse them with smart displays (which were a mistake), however they to have started to grow, and a lot of manufacturers are starting to adopt the specs. I also hear there is a Sub-Tablet which is a halfway house between Notebook and PDA.

The only thing you can't complain about windows is the lack of certain software such as DVD players etc. As with all of the problems Microsoft have (EU stripping Media Player, so certain versions of Windows will not even be able to play MP3's out of the BOX!) they are simply not allowed to add anything like that.

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REM2000,

i would love a smart display if they were inexpensive , and love htem more if they could function by accessing the system over the internet rather than just a wireless connection. this gets rid of needing two expensive computers just to have one with tablet functionality and one without but more power

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