Thurrott: "This has the makings of a train wreck"


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You know, some people say that they hope they don't delay LH..and in some ways I tend to disagree. If they're going to delay it to fix things, I wouldn't mind. I'd rather have a delayed decent product as opposed to a rushed shotty version.

Knight, please don't tell me you're comparing the FINAL VERSION of OSX, to an ALPHA VERSION of LH...

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WTF?! :huh:

Radish?

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I was at the lunch too, and I can confirm that I heard this as well. Don't know how much truth there is, but it could happen...

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They're spread so much BS, it's not even funny..:no:o:

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It looks like the Sidebar is gone from Longhorn, which is a sore loss.

That honestly made my day. I hated that thing.

Also,

I'd like to highlight one very important fact you'll not find out about elsewhere: That Longhorn UI that was shown off today was not the final UI, which will be much more impressive. We'll see that at the PDC this September, I'm told.
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Hey guys, this product isn't even Beta yet, in case you didn't catch it from the other 20 people that just reiterated it :rolleyes:

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Yes but the beta build isn't far away from this one. And like another 20 people said (including me), it doesn't look like they put that much work into it from the last build except take out the sidebar and change the theme to a semi-uglier one.

I'm not giving up on Longhorn yet but if Beta 1 comes along and I don't see a major improvement from this build, I don't think I'll be changing from XP (unless I move to Linux for programming).

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You know, some people say that they hope they don't delay LH..and in some ways I tend to disagree. If they're going to delay it to fix things, I wouldn't mind. I'd rather have a delayed decent product as opposed to a rushed shotty version.

Knight, please don't tell me you're comparing the FINAL VERSION of OSX, to an ALPHA VERSION of LH...

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the only difference between the first publicly shown alpha of Tiger a year ago and the finished version is the the GUI...all the features of the final were there in the Alpha.

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Now that I think of it, maybe Microsoft is hiding their "newer features" to protect their "trade secrets". Kinda like a suprise. I'm hoping so.

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the only difference between the first publicly shown alpha of Tiger a year ago and the finished version is the the GUI...all the features of the final were there in the Alpha.

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Shows how much work goes into apple products... :laugh:

but, seriously, longhorn is a good year and a half away from completion, there's no problems i can see (considering it's alpha) to make me call it a train wreck.

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Well, there is sorta a difference to me, I mean, it looks like Longhorn will be alot different from XP..I could be wrong. The jump from Panther to Tiger...I don't know, it doesn't seem the same as the jump from XP to Longhorn.

I'm not saying that Tiger lacks new features or anything like that, I'm just saying it's two different situations IMO.

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the only difference between the first publicly shown alpha of Tiger a year ago and the finished version is the the GUI...all the features of the final were there in the Alpha.

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Tiger was also just a minor upgrade, especially compared to Longhorn. I really can't believe people who say things like "they've had years and all they've come up with is thumbnails and desktop search." and "in 2006, all we'll get is Windows XP which is more secure with a fancy new theme" It seems that they only believe this because they want to believe the worst about Microsoft. Anyone who had any sense would understand there is a reason why Microsoft needs until 2006 , and that there was a reason it has taken so long so far in development. There are many components of Longhorn that Microsoft hasn't yet integrated into public builds because all of the elements aren't fully stable or fixed yet. If you've been watching demos on Channel9 over the last few months for Longhorns capabilities, If you've seen screenshots from the PDC aero demo, etc., you'd know that there is a lot that is being worked on that is exciting. Understand what Microsoft is doing and what their development schedule is before you jump to conclusions. The first thing you can do is realize WinFS was more ambitious than Spotlight, that Avalon is more ambitious than anything currently in MacOS, etc. I have no idea what the final build will look like, but I know there is a lot they're working on, and a lot that hasn't been done before.

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Nobody seems to get the f'ing point

Windows Hardware Engineering Conference

HARDWARE !!!

so everybody just shut the f' up, this build is to let hardware manufacturer get their future hardware more compatible with the longhorn architecture, they're professionnal engineers, not script or warez kiddies looking for the next OS X killer, they want to be "Longhorn approved" by the end of 2006.

Microsoft doesn't give a flying fk about what you think of the "new" GUI, or the lack of features. This is not the point in this build, they just want hardware manufacturer as good partners for the future right now.

Good grief, having a computer and the internet should come with a permit and a five year class in maturity and intelligence.

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Gee, Microsoft is not very proud of Longhorn is it?

As a prospective customer looking to upgrade to Windows "longhorn" I feel like I'm being treated like a mushroom by Microsoft.

Why a Mushroom? Fed crap and kept in the dark. :ermm:

Apple has nothing to fear from Longhorn as I see it, it quite clear and simple to see, Windows & Microsoft have lost the plot. Game over Microsoft.

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Uh oh... you know when Paul Thurrott starts criticizing builds of longhorn- somethings definitely not right.

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That is what I was thinking. Thurrott is always seeing the "sunny side" in Microsoft. :unsure:

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Dr. Jones:

You have to remember a couple of things though. Microsoft KNOWS that their versions get leaked all the time. Not once have I heard them contact Winbeta.org and say "Can you please not distribute our product". This is their free publicity.

So if you know something is going to leak and you know screenshots are going all over the internet, why would you make it look like you have done barely anything in the past year?

Also may I add that yes it's for companies to create hardware for the next version but why would they give out a disk with Longhorn to everyone that attends (although I may be wrong on this fact which I will admit to possibly being, I heard that's how it worked)? They know some people who go there are not going to be "hardware creators" looking to make hardware for the next version of Windows. Why don't they just ship out these copies to each company individually or allow them to download it online with a special site + username and password for all the companies?

Oh yeah....cause it's a public preview.....

Who ever said that betas were the only thing to be released to the public? I've tested many programs which would release "Alpha software" for people to test out so they can bug hunt. Alpha and Beta tags are just that. Tags. Names given to builds on what you think it should be. Alpha comes first then Beta. So we automatically assume (big word there) that the only things we are going to see are betas being released to everyone because it's "newer"

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That is what I was thinking.  Thurrott is always seeing the "sunny side" in Microsoft.  :unsure:

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Yeah, exactly, for such a Microsoft "unofficial" Evangelist. Very surprising.

Of course, from what I've seen :o I totally concur with Paul.

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Being a WinHEC build, I didn't really expect too much from this one, BUT if this is basically how it looks in their full fledged more "bleeding edge" builds right now (like the 5060 Thurott had a screenshot of), only with slightly more Aero stuff and some other new minor changes, THEN I'm worried. If it's a severly cut down special build of Longhorn for driver developers, then I guess it may still fulfill its purpose, but if it's REALLY basically how Longhorn, the whole shebang, was as of early April 2005, then something looks pretty wrong. According to MS' plans, in about a year, nothing special more will happen with Longhorn and they'll start polishing the product. :huh:

So the only thing I can hope for is that this wasn't representative of Longhorn of April this year, but some kind of special build where a lot of features were kept away from us. (and I'm not just speaking UI; what about Monad, etc, etc?) That could mean some big differences in beta 1... But god knows what they're doing if that one is also just slightly different. :wacko: It's supposed to be "NT 6", not "NT 5.5"... the start of an entirely new generation.

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Dr. Jones:

You have to remember a couple of things though. Microsoft KNOWS that their versions get leaked all the time. Not once have I heard them contact Winbeta.org and say "Can you please not distribute our product". This is their free publicity.

So if you know something is going to leak and you know screenshots are going all over the internet, why would you make it look like you have done barely anything in the past year?

Also may I add that yes it's for companies to create hardware for the next version but why would they give out a disk with Longhorn to everyone that attends (although I may be wrong on this fact which I will admit to possibly being, I heard that's how it worked)?  They know some people who go there are not going to be "hardware creators" looking to make hardware for the next version of Windows. Why don't they just ship out these copies to each company individually or allow them to download it online with a special site + username and password for all the companies?

Oh yeah....cause it's a public preview.....

Who ever said that betas were the only thing to be released to the public? I've tested many programs which would release "Alpha software" for people to test out so they can bug hunt. Alpha and Beta tags are just that. Tags. Names given to builds on what you think it should be. Alpha comes first then Beta. So we automatically assume (big word there) that the only things we are going to see are betas being released to everyone because it's "newer"

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I'm not saying you shouldn't have it. I'm not saying this build of longhorn sould be secret and all, I'm just saying that this build was not made to impress anyone.

You say that they're not showing that they worked hard because people are deceived with the screenshots?? That's exactly my point, they need the hardware manufacturers on their side WAYYYY before 1337s and n00bs.

They worked hard on the underlying structure and hw compatibility, now this is somewhat done, they give one year to manufacturers to enhance their products, and the technology that we people think are cool will gradualy be refined and included for real public tests.

BTW, it's not because they give copies of Longhorn at this WinHEC to everybody attending, that the people attending really were the perfect public ;)

My only guess is if you were there, you're a hardware vendor representative :rofl:

I'm not saying that I KNOW that longhorn will be cool, I'm just saying that this winHEC weekend was not to impress people. Yes, they know it gets leaked, but so what. The cool stuff is not ready to be seen yet, just the real "business" stuff.

Peace, and please, mac fanboys... In the windows-related threads these days all we see is mac fanboys saying that tiger is great and that we're stupid using Microsoft's OS. WHY DO YOU ALL HAVE TO MAKE A POINT OF THIS? You want to compare e-penises ? You shouldn't have to brag out that what you use is better.. This is childish, but coming from 13 years old, what should I expect. We need more mature Apple "lovers", and less fanboys.

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Being a WinHEC build, I didn't really expect too much from this one, BUT if this is basically how it looks in their full fledged more "bleeding edge" builds right now (like the 5060 Thurott had a screenshot of), only with slightly more Aero stuff and some other new minor changes, THEN I'm worried. If it's a severly cut down special build of Longhorn for driver developers, then I guess it may still fulfill its purpose, but if it's REALLY basically how Longhorn was as of early April 2005, then something looks pretty wrong. The final stages of Longhorn is just slightly more than a year away.  :huh:

So the only thing I can hope for is that this wasn't representative of Longhorn of April this year, but some kind of special build where a lot of features were kept away from us. That could mean some big differences in beta 1... But god knows what they're doing if that one is also just slightly different.  :wacko:

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I think that if Microsoft's new Longhorn is going to be as revolutionary as it looks now, there's not going to be an upgrade path for me.

Poor Microsoft, they might miss out on breaking even on the next windows. Boohoohoo. /not

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Being a WinHEC build, I didn't really expect too much from this one, BUT if this is basically how it looks in their full fledged more "bleeding edge" builds right now (like the 5060 Thurott had a screenshot of), only with slightly more Aero stuff and some other new minor changes, THEN I'm worried. If it's a severly cut down special build of Longhorn for driver developers, then I guess it may still fulfill its purpose, but if it's REALLY basically how Longhorn, the whole shebang, was as of early April 2005, then something looks pretty wrong. According to MS' plans, in about a year, nothing special more will happen with Longhorn and they'll start polishing the product.  :huh:

So the only thing I can hope for is that this wasn't representative of Longhorn of April this year, but some kind of special build where a lot of features were kept away from us. That could mean some big differences in beta 1... But god knows what they're doing if that one is also just slightly different.  :wacko:

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Remember, the PDC build, the one that got majorly leaked, before the 4074 one.. I can't remember the build number. You know the one where everyone wanted to see what came from the ever so mysterious "Lab 6" ? That stuff did not make it in that build. They were simply not incorporating it yet.

That's more than a year ago, and there was some CRAZY looking COOL stuff already then. Stuff from "Cool" stuff developing labs are not necessarily incorporated in the main builds.

The truth is out there :shifty:

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Mr. Jones you do have a point in they may have more up their sleves for the future. I'm really hoping you are right on this one also. All we are saying is that we arien't really impressed from 4074 till now in the progression of Longhorn. Even though this was a hardware build, we all thought they would have a lot more put inside Longhorn by now then what was shown.

Let's hope the bets build has less "buisness" and more "user".

I also agree with you that the "Mac OSX TIGER is teh better" posts should stop also. So what if it's better. We arien't comparing. All we are doing is stating what we think of Longhorn. Not OSX. Start your own thread on comparing Mac to an unreleased product if you'd like. Just don't start spamming this topic with that stuff.

So what if it's better or not. You're still not getting a cookie.

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This is how i see it. I think alot of people will disagree with me .however I dont think microsoft has anything new to offer in their o/s. yes some gui stuff but the actual new things isnt there. I will say the report that microsoft was working on the system to actually wall off parts of the o/s to protect it from internet was an intresting but not original idea. In the next 5 years I dont see ms releasing anything that will turn the computer world on it's ear, which is what always set microsoft apart and made it the big monolpy it is today. they forget that. just my 2 cents.

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