at0mican Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I like the virtual folders and the organizing capabilities. That's a good reason to upgrade. 585839588[/snapback] A good reason to spend close to $500 (australian) dollars? For virtual folders and organizing? :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Jones Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Geez, people. Stop posting about what you don't know. There's a lot of cool new stuff showed constantly on Channel 9, stuff in development. Things that are getting done, patent filled, etc... You think Microsoft's CEO would pay something like 2000 employees to update a firewall and make special folders with docs and xls in it ? Right... Microsoft has too much to lose in this one, Longhorn is gonna rock, or else... And they know that. And why am I even debating this, there is a lot of things done. Why people here, and everywhere, who mostly don't have a clue, think that longhorn is gonna look like this in the final stage is beyond my comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 this is a HUGE train wreck in the making, it started good but at this point it looks like they did almost no progress since last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 (edited) Tiger was also just a minor upgrade, especially compared to Longhorn. I really can't believe people who say things like "they've had years and all they've come up with is thumbnails and desktop search." and "in 2006, all we'll get is Windows XP which is more secure with a fancy new theme" It seems that they only believe this because they want to believe the worst about Microsoft. Anyone who had any sense would understand there is a reason why Microsoft needs until 2006 , and that there was a reason it has taken so long so far in development. There are many components of Longhorn that Microsoft hasn't yet integrated into public builds because all of the elements aren't fully stable or fixed yet. If you've been watching demos on Channel9 over the last few months for Longhorns capabilities, If you've seen screenshots from the PDC aero demo, etc., you'd know that there is a lot that is being worked on that is exciting. Understand what Microsoft is doing and what their development schedule is before you jump to conclusions. The first thing you can do is realize WinFS was more ambitious than Spotlight, that Avalon is more ambitious than anything currently in MacOS, etc. I have no idea what the final build will look like, but I know there is a lot they're working on, and a lot that hasn't been done before. 585839434[/snapback] Yeah core image, core video, core data, spotlight api etc... FUD FUD FUD. As a developer of software on windows, I'm disappointed that MSFT has been wasting on ugly UIs instead of improving the core of windows. I guess you are one of those guys who is impressed with a new skin and a few extra widgets eh? Both Longhorn and Tiger were supposed to be major upgrades but MSFT has been dropping features left and right and keeping some of the flashy crap to keep you fanboys excited. I don't care about eye candy if it means that funtionality is compromised to meet deadlines. How the hell is Tiger a minor upgrade if many of the frameworks have been rewritten? Haven't you seen all of those system "hacks" requiring new versions? What about the new full version upgrade of the kernel? Stop spreading FUD. Many of us are IT professionals who are cross platform users. Edited April 27, 2005 by aristotle-dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperSnake Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 This is a public service announcement from ViperSnake: As a protest to this announcement, I am delaying the release of my Areo 5049 Windowblinds theme because of this. Even though it is not even done yet, I don't want MS to get mad (I'm sending up a theme for a MS Development Partner app here, is that okay?) Although WB has theming limitations to not make it EXACTLY like Areo, I am afraid to release it. Guess I should wait a month, it will be more worth it waiting for it everyone. This objection may change but expect no theme for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 This is a public service announcement from ViperSnake:As a protest to this announcement, I am delaying the release of my Areo 5049 Windowblinds theme because of this. Even though it is not even done yet, I don't want MS to get mad (I'm sending up a theme for a MS Development Partner app here, is that okay?) Although WB has theming limitations to not make it EXACTLY like Areo, I am afraid to release it. Guess I should wait a month, it will be more worth it waiting for it everyone. This objection may change but expect no theme for now. 585839615[/snapback] :unsure: Erm... that's nice. **Slowly backs away** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I just wonder how many threads would spawn on that single line from thurrot !! :rolleyes: I was disappointed by a yet more delay announced (summer 2006 to holiday 2006) and it really seemed they didnot have anything done in last an year or so. But then if you remember how it worked with XP...the moment MS showed out Luna every crappy software out there copied the LookNFeel of XP and Luna lost some appeal by the time XP shipped! remember how MS showed desktop search at PDC2003 and everybody just started talking about Desktop search out of the blue ? :x so imagine if MS showed something of the new UI or new icons or some new features that nobody has thought of yet...it will be just copied immediately !!! (fast user switching anyone ?) it makes sense...a lot of good business sense to not show it before 2006. now only if MS for once...completes this ahead of schedule :shifty: it would be a punch in the ***** for all the naysayers..the way they concentrated on SP2...they need to stop Office 12 (heck we have enough feautres already) and increase the manpower and get it done :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk26 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 The only "This has the makings of a train wreck" is Paul's visit to the bathroom. Poor toilet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 (edited) Yeah core image, core video, core data, spotlight api etc...FUD FUD FUD. As a developer of software on windows, I'm disappointed that MSFT has been wasting on ugly UIs instead of improving the core of windows. I guess you are one of those guys who is impressed with a new skin and a few extra widgets eh? Both Longhorn and Tiger were supposed to be major upgrades but MSFT has been dropping features left and right and keeping some of the flashy crap to keep you fanboys excited. I don't care about eye candy if it means that funtionality is compromised to meet deadlines. Stop spreading FUD. Many of us are IT professionals who are cross platform users. 585839610[/snapback] Yes things like spotlight api, core image, core video, etc are minor efforts compared to what they were working on. Especially spotlight. I had a conversation with you in a previous thread where I made the point Microsoft could have already released Longhorn if thats all they wanted in it. The fact that Tiger isn't that major an upgrade can be seen in the version number, OSX was the major upgrade. And OSX was a large upgrade that has many advantages over Windows now, but if you really kept track of Longhorn development I would expect you would know that Longhorn will have advancements over OSX. I have no idea what technology Apple will have by 2006, which is a different issue. But to think Longhorn will be less capable than OSX is just ludicrous. The amazing thing is people actually believe Microsoft is spending years just to produce a new theme and some widgets. A lot of this is tied to the API that they are working on based on .NET which has been detailed so many places already... If you're just talking about UI capability, which you might not care about, and looking at it just in terms of a Windows perspective, you know if you're a developer, doing things just like incorporating rich text in a list or button is complicated, and this complexity be gone--but the capabilities go far beyond that, and are aided by XAML, and the ease and quickness in development goes beyond that, and you can see all of this in demos of the technology that are released all the time. Some of the better ones have been shown on Channel9. And, from a Windows perspective, and even from a Mac perspective, this will all be done on the system much faster and more efficiently than before, just because of how its handled. I don't know if you care about the capabilities of the UI, seeing as you criticized eye candy, but that is what most people have been criticizing from the screenshots. Microsoft isn't dropping features left and right; the only major component that is dropped is WinFS which they are committed to releasing later. WinFS also isn't being delayed to incorporate eyecandy, different teams are working on the different projects. And even still if you don't believe that Microsoft can come up with a search system better than Spotlight by 2006 I don't believe youre looking at this clearly. The issue might be what Apple can do by 2006, but hopefully Microsoft's WinFS projects will have been developed further by then. A lot the applications in Longhorn are also being developed in independent teams---Media Player, Messenger, IE,etc. .NET has been developed already, and the new scripting program Monad will be very valuable; especially when .NET will be the basis of the Windows API as it will be in WinFX in Longhorn. Most aspects of the new API are already working and the next steps will be to incorporate this into how the system is built, which is what by all accounts, is under covers right now, and which we get to see hints of from time to time in demos of the technology. So my point is its amazingly foolish to believe that all Longhorn will end up being in Winter 2006 is "a new skin and a few extra widgets". And in fact ironic, considering except for core image/video its closer to what Tiger was. --I understand that Spotlight is nicely incorporated into the system API, but it really is a widget compared to what was and still is being attempted in WinFS, whether it will be in Longhorn or not. It wouldn't be that hard to incorporate MS's desktop search into the API either, considering in Windows explorer and the file dialogs everything is component/OLE based. --Safari [which isnt new i know] btw is a "widget" compared to what MS is doing with XML in Longhorn, making it the basis of all UI rendering. This is what Microsoft was ultimately moving towards when it started integrating IE into Windows, to incorporate rich formatting standards into the UI; and Safari is more like what Microsoft is accused of doing---bundling an application. --then there is Dashboard. So, I don't think I'm the one spreading FUD. In fact I'm sure you know FUD stands for fear, uncertainty, and doubt. "Will Longhorn ever arrive?" "Will Longhorn will just be XP with a new theme and some widgets?" "Will Longhorn will just be a XP with security patches?". That sounds more like what critics of Microsoft are putting out; especially considering all of the information and public demos we've been seeing about the technologies. They are drawing from these meager screenshots, even though theres plenty of information out there that shows promising things, to spread doubt and uncertainty about Longhorn. Edited April 28, 2005 by brianshapiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc777 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Everyone chill!!! Longhorn will rock your ######! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk26 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Everyone chill!!!Longhorn will rock your ######! 585839801[/snapback] LOL, that should be Microsoft's new slogan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0m8er Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 LOL, that should be Microsoft's new slogan! 585839814[/snapback] LOL :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtrftw Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 :laugh: I can't wait for my PowerBook 12" to come, OSX Tiger looks more feature rich than what Longhorn looks to be. 585839243[/snapback] one is a finished product and one isn't even in beta. nice comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyClaw Veteran Posted April 28, 2005 Veteran Share Posted April 28, 2005 well norky, i mean come on, they are supposed to impress us with these releases, and when tiger was in beta, it still looked 10x better than this crap. this is like some n00b xp skinner went to work and butchered the gui. im waiting for my powerbook to arrive too knight, and i hope microsoft can pull this together cause i WAS looking forward to lh, but now i just miss plex :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Brian, neither release is minor but Longhorn is dropping features to get it out the door, there can be no denying that. The new technologies in both products are considerable upgrades. There is no denying that either. People are getting caught up in version numbers. I certainly do not get caught up in them at work when we release stuff. People should not be judging Longhorn based on some screenshots. By the same token, people should not judge the competition based on what an MS shill said or version numbers. For both products, look at the API changes and underlying features to determine if it's a major release. Both products have a changes in their graphics model. Both products have changes in how they search and present data. Both products have innovative ways of making use of XML and scripting to present unique UI experiences to users. Both products have expanded UI scripting support (automator and monad). Both have expanded data management tools for developers. I guess what Tiger has going for it is that it is a shipping product and they have exposed the UI scripting engine to the GUI developer tools allowing for creation of simple data centric programs with little or no code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at0mican Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 LOL, that should be Microsoft's new slogan! 585839814[/snapback] Well it would be better than 'It Just works". It "just" works? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurmoth Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Is Paul on meds? I never expected to read something like this from, whether it was true or not :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metro Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 :laugh: I can't wait for my PowerBook 12" to come, OSX Tiger looks more feature rich than what Longhorn looks to be. 585839243[/snapback] Interesting concept... On one hand we have an OS that has been rebuilt a few times since it's initial release and resold with a pricetag as if it were brand spanking new. On the other hand, we have an OS in development which appears to look like a previous OS with a facelift but infact will be a major overhaul with a load of different features. The Apple vs Microsoft war is petty. The bottom line is that Apple is a hardware company. Their OS is developed to strictly work with their hardware and any company who may manufacture something for use in an Apple system must meet strict guidelines set forth by Apple. Then there is MS, which develops an OS that allows a multitude of different hardware manufactures to be a little more open with their products provided they can produce a quality driver that will get the most out of their hardware. One has more of a marketshare and more of a footprint in the computer industry. Apple snobs need to save their breath. One is not better than the other. Different strokes for different folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANova Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Will it be another WinME or WinXP, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RightfulSpire Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 see the prob i see, and it may not be a huge one, to me it is. the computer savvy look for winhec..and whats released there so they know whats coming. M$ know the winhec build will be leaked..and thousands will play with it..y would they want to make it look good in alpha or even beta one when its just for driver/hardware devolpment. i mean if it was mine...and i know people are going to use it who shouldnt i wouldnt give em what they want...i would wait till as long as i could before blending all the elements together for final beta that way the leecheers dont get anything..like longhorn 4074 was just for show..this is to begin the final process of making it work..you dont need looks, first you need drivers to make the looks work properly..then you need security looks (wich seems to be the biggest concern)is not important..its sluggish boohoo, it doesnt detect this or that(not a surprise) i cant install bla bla bla...i got an idea...WAIT quit complaining.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strekship Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Look at Beta 1 of windows XP. Windows XP turned out to be much different than the Beta 1 Realese. And, as it has been previously stated, this build was ment for developing drivers. The main builds don't normally have all of the good stuff. You need to remember that there a various labs makeing builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neostyle Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Is Paul on meds? I never expected to read something like this from, whether it was true or not :blink: 585840005[/snapback] the prob here is , before he went to winhec he reviewed tiger . if u compare the two , no wonder that he is more than disappointed . you have to read all those comments on the blog . wow ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muessig Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 A clarification. On Tuesday, I noted that "this has the makings of a train wreck." I wasn't referring specifically to build 5048, which is a developer build only, and doesn't show off the final UI. Instead, I was referring to the Longhorn project itself, which is careening so wildly out of control that it may never successfully come to a conclusion. However, I'd like to highlight one very important fact you'll not find out about elsewhere: That Longhorn UI that was shown off today was not the final UI, which will be much more impressive. We'll see that at the PDC this September, I'm told. The Longhorn demos weren't particularly spectacular. Microsoft should have noted that the UI wasn't the final one. OS X fans will jeer at the quality of the Longhorn display that was showed off, for example. Those are a couple of quotes from Mr. Thurrot for your enjoyment. And I agree with brianshapiro and what he's said on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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