Busted for bittorrent!

By Jojo81
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Jojo81

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I know this board is heavily divided when it comes to the topic of p2p filesharing and I will probably be flamed but I really need advice so here goes...

Yesterday afternoon my dad gets a phone call from our ISP Charter Communications saying they were informed by (not sure the guy on the phone said something about the DMCA) that bittorrent has been in use at our IP address. My dad not knowing anything about bittorrent told him he had no idea what that was and he didn't think anyone had been using it at our house. The guy then asked him what kind of security we had on our computers and my dad told him we connect through a Linksys wireless router So then the guy told him well it is possible someone was using our connection to dowload stuff wirelessly and told my dad to make sure its secure. Now I know our router is secure because I set it up that way and I'm standing there wondering wtf this whole time knowing I'm the one that uses bittorrent occasionally. He then told my dad to just in case check our computers for the bittorent program and if it's on there to get rid of it because this is a warning. The guy also told him the exact date I last used bittorrent May 15 which does sound right however he didn't say what was downloaded. Eventually my dad got off the phone and I saw no reason to lie to both my parents so I told them it was my fault and explained the whole bittorrent thing. They were ****ed to begin with but couldn't say much because they've in the past knowingly put pirated software I've downloaded onto their home computer. After a while they calmed down and said well just make sure you don't download anything else until you can setup your own seperate account with our ISP whenever that is. I will stop using bittorrent because the last thing I want is them to get in trouble over it. So my questions are these...

BTW I had been using bittorrent occasionally but I think a lot less than most pirates on sites like this and it was all software, no music, movies, or games.

1. Do you think someone in accordance with the DMCA is on to me and sent my ISP a letter telling them to warn me about downloading stuff?

2. Do you think my ISP (alone) is using scare tactics to get people like me to stop using file sharing completely even though they haven't been asked by any outside authority? Obviously it would be pretty easy for them to monitor what I'm doing online.

3. My ISP told my dad to remove bittorrent from any of our computers it was installed on...What if we were using it for LEGAL purposes? Would they still track what I was doing and think it was illegal just becaue it is bittorent? I have downloaded free/shareware on bittorrent before.

4. I don't want any trouble so I'm not going to download anything more for the time being BUT what are the chances I'm gonna get charged with something for what I've already done? I downloaded a few apps like I said no music or movies.

5. What the hell is everyone else doing and why was I warned?????

Thanks for reading through that and I hope you guys/gals will be able to settle me down a bit.

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Grand Master

Steven P. Administrators

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Its a scare tactic if the ISP can't tell you what you downloaded. Its possible that someone on your ISP is using it heavily and you were just one of many that were contacted.

If you're ISP doesn't contact you again, then you are ok, but again its not illegal to use BitTorrent, because of some of the stuff being shared through it, like the Neowin supported AutoPatcher. I know the developers rely heavily on BT to get it distributed.

In Holland such information (is still) regarded private, but with the amount of available bandwidth to customers and the current piracy problems in the world even I think it won't be long before software transactions are monitored and filtered by 'heavy users'.

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+dave164 Subscriber¹

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1. Nah, they have ways to find out

2. Yes, then if you do it again and get found out they report it to MPAA or something like that

3. Thats what i was thinking, bittorrent can be used to download freeware and trialware such as Americas Army

4. I heard after 30 days the history of what u've downloaded gets erased, if you've been warned they cant suddenly turn around a few days later and say, oh achually we'll charge you

5. Not using firewall, antivirus, etc.. router firewalls aint very protective, if i download something i use PeerGuardian, make sure firewalls and av are up...

You must have done some hardcore downloading, but if you havent done much i guess its all bad luck.

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shaneh

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err... get another ISP. Only your ISP would be able to report such information to the DMCA/RIAA etc. Most will ignore such requests etc for privacy reasons, and should only divulge such personal information if they have a warrent. Which they most certainly wouldnt have. Your ISP is in the wrong here, for giving out the information. (if they did. If they didnt theres nothing to worry about. Most ISPs will simply ignore such reports from the RIAA, though I dont recall the exact reason why).

AFAIK is only illegal to share/upload the content, not download it. And that is not what the *AA are after.

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megamanXplosion

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ISPs will not send fake warnings, it's not worth the time, effort, and costs. If you got a warning from your ISP then you can be certain that the warning is legit. It's strange that they did not tell you the organization that filed the complaint with them and the file you downloaded, but I wouldn't dismiss the warning. Using bittorrent itself is not illegal but you have to be very careful with what you download. TV shows, movies, music, programs, practically everything has copyrights and have organizations looking for people downloading and distributing them. Even if the files you download are legal for you to download, it may be illegal for others to distribute and you could still get caught in the legal crossfire. My advice to you is to abandon bittorrent and other P2P programs, they bring nothing but trouble.

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bfoos

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err... get another ISP. Only your ISP would be able to report such information to the DMCA/RIAA etc. Most will ignore such requests etc for privacy reasons, and should only divulge such personal information if they have a warrent. Which they most certainly wouldnt have. Your ISP is in the wrong here, for giving out the information.

AFAIK is only illegal to share/upload the content, not download it. And that is not what the *AA are after.

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Eh. Nobody can report anything to the DMCA as it is a law. The RIAA or MPAA does not apply here either. The lobying body behind software piracy litigation is the Business Software Alliance (BSA).

Personaly, I think it's a scare tactic. Your ISP doesn't like the BT protocol and is trying to do something about it, short of TOS'ing you.

If it was a legitimate gripe from the BSA or one of the AA's, it would state the infringing content in the complaint and it would be clearly stated to the account holder.

Use non standard ports in the future.

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Jojo81

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Thanks for the quick responses. I am definitely giving up on filesharing for now as I said. I was using a non standard port and had my system as secure as could be. I was doing a little googling to find an incident similar to mine and the closest I found was someone received an email sort of like my phone call from their ISP. Here is a link to it if you are willing. It is quite an interesting discussion but we have plenty of those here. More interesting is the copy of the email the guys ISP sent him in the original post.

http://www.gamingforce.com/forums//showthread.php?t=59212

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Jojo81

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Sucks bro.... and neobond, i agree with you mate

585964773[/snapback]

Well this was my dad on the phone so who knows if he got the info screwed up when going over what was said to me.

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saerdna

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I dont know what laws which apply in your country but here in sweden we consider it as the isp are spying on you and violating your personally integrity. But the isps are working different here, since its still legal to download pirated stuff they want more customors and therefore they doesnt care what they do with their connection.

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Gaius Baltar

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i don't get it?

how can they find this out,

I mean if you have a firewall on the connection which masks you from the internet along with a dynamic ip address, how can this happen?

is it possible the real culprit's ip address was given to you, they checked their accounts and found you were assigned that ip address while the real culprit has been given another (e.g. re-connected).

should i be worried?

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saerdna

Posted
Posted
i don't get it?

how can they find this out,

I mean if you have a firewall on the connection which masks you from the internet along with a dynamic ip address, how can this happen?

is it possible the real culprit's ip address was given to you, they checked their accounts and found you were assigned that ip address while the real culprit has been given another (e.g. re-connected).

should i be worried?

585964815[/snapback]

the isp probably logs traffic throgh their switches.

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Phemo

Posted
Posted
i don't get it?

how can they find this out,

I mean if you have a firewall on the connection which masks you from the internet along with a dynamic ip address, how can this happen?

is it possible the real culprit's ip address was given to you, they checked their accounts and found you were assigned that ip address while the real culprit has been given another (e.g. re-connected).

should i be worried?

585964815[/snapback]

It's quite simple. BT clients (BitComet for one) let you see the IP of everyone who is connected to that tracker. All it takes is for someone unhappy about their software being distributed to log onto the tracker, log all IPs, trace them back to ISPs and send a notification to the ISP.

A firewall will not help you since they only stop incoming connections - did you think that would save you from being traced or something? As for a dynamic IP, your ISP will keep a log of which customer was assigned what IP at whatever time.

Everything is traceable, if the effort is put in. Except via proxies that don't keep logs.

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box2k2

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Sounds like how I got done. This is prob how you got got.

There are some companies out there whose business is protecting the intellectual property of others.

These companies montor p2p software and gather IP addresses (and hashes and stuff) that are downloading copyrighted material.

Then they simply do a whois and get the address of the ISP.

Then they send a letter/email:

"We are authorised to act on behalf of {Twentieth Century Fox/MGM etc}.

We have proof that the following IP addresses owned by you are committing breach of copyright law. Please take appropriate action.. ..blah blah legal action blah...."

The letter will include: time, date, file name, file size, name of intellectual property, p2p network and IP address.

Your ISP then either:

1. Puts it in the bin.

2. Contacts you! By using their logs to find out you (or your router) where using that IP at that time. This may be in the form of a phone call, letter or email

And if you do it enough your ISP cuts you off! :o

Then if your really clever, you go through your firewall/PG logs and find out the IP addresses of everyone connected over the relevant time period and submit those IPs to some people and then those IPs will be added to the PG lists and hopefully you'll never get caught again.

The suggestion that "it was someone hacking into my router" doesn't carry much weight either. Read your terms closely and most ISPs hold you resposible for the the account and its use, be that you or your inadvertant visitor.

Any one seen/ been "victim" of any other variations?

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Boogiman

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I dont know what laws which apply in your country but here in sweden we consider it as the isp are spying on you and violating your personally integrity. But the isps are working different here, since its still legal to download pirated stuff they want more customors and therefore they doesnt care what they do with their connection.

585964812[/snapback]

*moves to Sweden....

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Ruciz

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Yeah. The account holder is responsible for everything on the account. If someone comes to your house and starts portscanning overnight to find open FTP sites then its your fault, even if you wern't at home for the night. As for BitTorrent, its not illegal to use any client software for downloading the latest version of Mandrake, or any other programmers work that can't afford the bandwidth that a torrent file can provide. so I wouldn't bother deleting it really, as you might need to get a copy of linux fast :) (just stay away from the TV shows and microsoft software.)

Also, your ISP could have determined if you were using it and are covering their own asses/yours by looking at the ports you are connected to. Bittorrent runs on certain ports, so if you're connected to those then they know your using torrents. Also, usually your upload is huge for the month or greater than your usual download amount. Get yourself a copy of Bandwidth Monitor Pro (don't need to be registered to use - just have to OK the nag when turning on your computer) to see how much bandwidth your really using.

Either way torrents are great for practical use and will be around for a while, or until most ISPs start implimenting blocks so you can't access non-standard ports.

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Grand Master

The_Decryptor Veteran

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Either way torrents are great for practical use and will be around for a while, or until most ISPs start implimenting blocks so you can't access non-standard ports.

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They probably wont do that, TCP/IP is moving away from fixed ports, to randomly generated ports (but most will stay the same, like 80)

Edited by The_Decryptor
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