Gentoo


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neowin_hipster

I've tried BeOS. Very different i can tell you.

Anyways, if you want to try another good OS try freebsd. Its true bsd unix.

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DrunkenMaster

Doesn't make sense to source complie everything.

If you're going to make heavy use of Apache and MySql it makes sense. So does X and KDE or Gnome and some of the bigger apps. Source compiling everything, is a waste of time as is not being able to download everything all at once. It also prevents standardizing the environment which might make it harder to support.

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neowin_hipster

the lack of standardization often causes p33ps to source compile.

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karmakillernz
Originally posted by DrunkenMaster

Doesn't make sense to source complie everything.

If you're going to make heavy use of Apache and MySql it makes sense. So does X and KDE or Gnome and some of the bigger apps. Source compiling everything, is a waste of time as is not being able to download everything all at once. It also prevents standardizing the environment which might make it harder to support.

So you don't like the ability to customise what support is compiled in? You don't like the extra speed in everything you do?

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DrunkenMaster

Its useless to source compile everything. There just won't be much of a speed difference unless they're really big apps and/or they use lots of CPU time and memory. Spending several hours source compiling the entire OS is a huge waste of time.

As to source compiling for standardizing the OS - this has nothing to do with it. Gentoo pre-packages all the software individually. This means when compiling it, the executables and binaries will go in separate directories. What I'm talking about is the fact that MySQL, Perl, Xwindows etc etc binaries and libraries are all but in different directories for each distribution. Slacware, Debian, Suse, Redhat (and Mandrake which has slight differences). Thats the problem.

Seeing as Gentoo's files are prepackages does nothing to control where the files are placed and certainly does nothing in standardizing the placement of the files across all distributions. United Linux won't solve this either. The Linux Standards was/is supposed to solve this everyone's still waiting.

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karmakillernz
Originally posted by DrunkenMaster

Its useless to source compile everything. There just won't be much of a speed difference unless they're really big apps and/or they use lots of CPU time and memory. Spending several hours source compiling the entire OS is a huge waste of time.

Well I certainly noticed a speed difference over something like Redhat, even debian. Besides, It takes a total of 4 hours to fully compile on my system from scratch to a working X with Gnome.

As to source compiling for standardizing the OS - this has nothing to do with it. Gentoo pre-packages all the software individually. This means when compiling it, the executables and binaries will go in separate directories. What I'm talking about is the fact that MySQL, Perl, Xwindows etc etc binaries and libraries are all but in different directories for each distribution. Slacware, Debian, Suse, Redhat (and Mandrake which has slight differences). Thats the problem.

Again, you can control where it puts them with a single command.

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neowin_hipster

What idiot doesn't compile a custom kernel when they get linux. As for X, every system is different. A custom compiled version of X vs a binary version is very different.

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lazydesert

could someone please explain the meaning of stage1, stage2 and stage3 tarball.

is stage3 somewhat pre-compiled ? down to stage1 meaning do it all yourself ?

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DrunkenMaster

Enough with the debate, i was merely stating opinion. If you guys want to use it thats fine. I usually just recompile X, enlightenment, MySQL (if I need it) and a few other apps depending on wether I'm using a server or desktop. And of course I always recompile the kernel, I never said i didn't :). I just don't see the point in recompiling everything. To each their own. Really :) .

Anyways, lazydesert, the answer to your question is right here: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/build.html. From what I understand, correct me if I'm wrong:

Basically, the stage 1 and 2 are the same except for #1 doing an update to the bootstrap on the drive (bootloader). You'll need to compile everything from source which could take a few hours (again I'm not sure if this is true w/ stage 1 and 2).

To explain the other terms: rsync checks the ftp mirrors for updates of Gentoo and downloads newer packages. Unlike Redhat and others, downloading the distribution only gives you a minimal installation unless you choose Stage 3 or download the packages and burn them to a CD first. In this case, it downloads everything or newer packages than you have. Finally you recomplie the sources usuing optimizations for your system processor.

With stage 3, from what I understand, you don't need to recompile, all you need to do is install and you have a choice of doing an rsnyc.

Now I'm tired of typing :). Hope this helps.

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karmakillernz
Originally posted by lazydesert

could someone please explain the meaning of stage1, stage2 and stage3 tarball.

is stage3 somewhat pre-compiled ? down to stage1 meaning do it all yourself ?

DrunkenMaster explained it pretty well but basically:

Stage 1 = Compiles everything from the ground up with the customisations you want.

Stage 2 = Same as 1, except it doesn't compile the very base system (binutils, gcc, glibc etc).

Stage 3 = Nearly a fully working system. What stage 1 + 2 would equal :) It doesn't have X though so you'll need to install that afterwards. This has no special optimisations except, for example, compiled for the i686 instruction set.

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kawai

Interesting.

I am downloading Slackware right now, seems to be the way to go as it's only one ISO and Mandrake's ALSA doesn't work with my soundcard at all (no ****ing clue, I am just a damn linux n00b)

I think Gentoo is too advacned for me right now, we will see how far slackware will bring my sorry ass to :)

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azazel-
Originally posted by DrunkenMaster

Its useless to source compile everything. There just won't be much of a speed difference unless they're really big apps and/or they use lots of CPU time and memory. Spending several hours source compiling the entire OS is a huge waste of time.

As to source compiling for standardizing the OS - this has nothing to do with it. Gentoo pre-packages all the software individually. This means when compiling it, the executables and binaries will go in separate directories. What I'm talking about is the fact that MySQL, Perl, Xwindows etc etc binaries and libraries are all but in different directories for each distribution. Slacware, Debian, Suse, Redhat (and Mandrake which has slight differences). Thats the problem.

Seeing as Gentoo's files are prepackages does nothing to control where the files are placed and certainly does nothing in standardizing the placement of the files across all distributions. United Linux won't solve this either. The Linux Standards was/is supposed to solve this everyone's still waiting.

Then use Debian or Slack and be happy.

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karmakillernz
Originally posted by kawai

Interesting.

I am downloading Slackware right now, seems to be the way to go as it's only one ISO and Mandrake's ALSA doesn't work with my soundcard at all (no ****ing clue, I am just a damn linux n00b)

I think Gentoo is too advacned for me right now, we will see how far slackware will bring my sorry ass to :)

Slackware is a great distro.... you'll also learn heaps using it. Enjoy :)

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lazydesert
Originally posted by karmakillernz

DrunkenMaster explained it pretty well but basically:

Stage 1 = Compiles everything from the ground up with the customisations you want.

Stage 2 = Same as 1, except it doesn't compile the very base system (binutils, gcc, glibc etc).

Stage 3 = Nearly a fully working system. What stage 1 + 2 would equal :) It doesn't have X though so you'll need to install that afterwards. This has no special optimisations except, for example, compiled for the i686 instruction set.

thanks for the info man. i thought it would be something like that. i'm gonna give gentoo a try after i get done downing debian and use it for the rest of the summer.

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+BudMan

Thanks - something new to play with :) Had not head of this distro before a few hours ago.

Looks pretty kewl - what the hell, had a old Celron 400 with 256MB in pieces anyway - threw it back together, grabbed the 16MB stage one ISO - 15 min later we are bootstrapping :) Hey if your going to do it - why not do it. Otherwise is just like any other distro ;)

I do not understand why people are having problems with this - their instructions are written so even a monkey could follow them, Maybe even an Aol'er??

Shoot - its late!

-BudMan

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DrunkenMaster
Originally posted by kawai

Interesting.

I am downloading Slackware right now, seems to be the way to go as it's only one ISO and Mandrake's ALSA doesn't work with my soundcard at all (no ****ing clue, I am just a damn linux n00b)

I think Gentoo is too advacned for me right now, we will see how far slackware will bring my sorry ass to :)

Kawai, I assume you're looking for other distribution ISOs like Redhat, Cladera, Mandrake, and whatever else you can think of??? Try the links below for more ISOs.

Where are you downloading from? If you want more choice in ISO's you can go to ibiblio.org which is really fast. Tucows should also have some really fast mirrors with ISOs of other distributions (they may not all be current) , carroll.cac.psu.edu & ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu also have several ISOs on the FTP site.

And if you want a really fast mirror try ncart.scs.ryerson.ca in the future for Slackware since its really close to you. I think they also have Redhat on there.There isn't much on there but it is fast. You have to download during off hours which is after 10:00 @ night.

And yes, nothing against Gentoo, but I do use Slackware. Everyone likes the distribution they use for some reason. Like I said to each their own. Just enjoy using Linux :)

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karmakillernz
Originally posted by DrunkenMaster

And yes, nothing against Gentoo, but I do use Slackware. Everyone likes the distribution they use for some reason. Like I said to each their own. Just enjoy using Linux :)

Very well said. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
lazydesert
Originally posted by lazydesert

wow

this is too complicated for my lack of brains :ermm: ;)

i lied!

my lack of brains has installed gentoo to a T :D

only one thing though . . it wont boot :ermm: :(

i'm asking on the gentoo forums, so hopefully they can help me out

.. stupid lack of brains..

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karmakillernz

What message does it give? I'll take a look on the Gentoo forums see if I can help there too ;)

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lazydesert
Originally posted by karmakillernz

What message does it give? I'll take a look on the Gentoo forums see if I can help there too ;)

oh, hey!

got it to boot!

jumpers were set wrong :ermm: stupid me had it set to master when its the only thing on the cable. a simple removal of the jumper made it 'single' and viola! boots!

had problems with tulip.. but i compiled it into the kernel and now it boots with all OK :D i'm so happy

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karmakillernz

lol good to hear!

Btw, Gnome2 isn't that good yet. Very buggy :s I'd wait for 2.1 if I were you...

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lazydesert
Originally posted by karmakillernz

lol good to hear!

Btw, Gnome2 isn't that good yet. Very buggy :s I'd wait for 2.1 if I were you...

hrm

alright

what would you recommend then ?

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karmakillernz

Um.. all of em? :p It depends. I would just use Gnome 1.4 for now as it uses Nautilus 2 (which is nice and fast) and a few other Gnome2 components anyway (In Gentoo at least). Or if you want small, go for Blackbox/Fluxbox. :D

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lazydesert
Originally posted by karmakillernz

Um.. all of em? :p It depends. I would just use Gnome 1.4 for now as it uses Nautilus 2 (which is nice and fast) and a few other Gnome2 components anyway (In Gentoo at least). Or if you want small, go for Blackbox/Fluxbox. :D

i'm gonna try fluxbox

lol, i'm such a n00b ;)

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karmakillernz

Well now you've installed it you can call yourself semi-n00b :p

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