Droodles Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Damn, he stumbled across our secret The charities, the weekly meetings, the prayer, or just a clever ploy Please sir, I beg of you to join the law enforcement authorites for your powers of deduction are clearly wasted here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.nudd Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 why? 586137067[/snapback] You have no faith in things you don't see first hand. If you are annoyed by someone explaining the Bible to you, I am well within my rights to be annoyed at your lack of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheirser Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 You have no faith in things you don't see first hand. If you are annoyed by someone explaining the Bible to you, I am well within my rights to be annoyed at your lack of faith. 586137278[/snapback] Damn right I don't have faith and proud of it. I started looking for the meaning life when I was in my teens and thought, I want to learn about this god stuff and started reading the bible. I remember I was in bed and I got about 15-20 pages in and thought to myself this is such load of crap. I am sooooo glad my parents did not brainwash me and I have the ability to think for myself. Always curious to lifes answers, and they aren't in the bible for me. If I have to go to a church, like if someone is getting married or dies, it's just dreadfull. I hate it. It is so boring, so predictable, so speech riddled and so zombified. I know the lords prayer but I refuse to say it in church. I just stand there bored sh*tless till everything is over. Am I worried about my life? No. Am I happy? Yes. Absolutely nothing any human can do to change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheirser Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 And if I'm wrong then God can stick it up his arse because I'd rather go to hell then hang out in heaven because it is a sin not to believe in his garbage. Hey I could go around killing people and still not go to hell because it doesn't exist. I am however a nice person, and everyone has a right to speak their mind so bring it on. I can't even kill ants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.nudd Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Damn right I don't have faith and proud of it. I started looking for the meaning life when I was in my teens and thought, I want to learn about this god stuff and started reading the bible. I remember I was in bed and I got about 15-20 pages in and thought to myself this is such load of crap. I am sooooo glad my parents did not brainwash me and I have the ability to think for myself. Always curious to lifes answers, and they aren't in the bible for me. If I have to go to a church, like if someone is getting married or dies, it's just dreadfull. I hate it. It is so boring, so predictable, so speech riddled and so zombified. I know the lords prayer but I refuse to say it in church. I just stand there bored sh*tless till everything is over. Am I worried about my life? No. Am I happy? Yes. Absolutely nothing any human can do to change my mind. 586137343[/snapback] And if I'm wrong then God can stick it up his arse because I'd rather go to hell then hang out in heaven because it is a sin not to believe in his garbage.Hey I could go around killing people and still not go to hell because it doesn't exist. I am however a nice person, and everyone has a right to speak their mind so bring it on. I can't even kill ants! 586137360[/snapback] I don't ever remember saying you don't have a right to speak your mind. Christian ideas are just as viable as many other ideas of Atheism. There is no proof either way as to an existence of a supreme being or a heaven/hell dimension. That's where faith comes in. If you have none in this area, so be it. Not my problem. Not quite sure what to say about killing ants... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheirser Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I don't ever remember saying you don't have a right to speak your mind. Christian ideas are just as viable as many other ideas of Atheism. There is no proof either way as to an existence of a supreme being or a heaven/hell dimension. That's where faith comes in. If you have none in this area, so be it. Not my problem. Not quite sure what to say about killing ants... lol 586137378[/snapback] Hehe Ants yeh But that is the thing, I don't believe there actually is "anything" to prove. That is my point, I find it quite offensive that the human race wastes their time in a church, it just seems like such a waste. I know people can do what ever they want to do, but I for one do not get it because I believe there is not a creator, we are just part of the moving cycles universe. Church is so racist for me too for it to be a reality, bunch of power trippers getting off is the only sense I can make of any one going to church, like those late night preachers on television. Nothing adds up, I try to understand what they are talking about, I really have in the past, but it is such balony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluepride35 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I have another question. So does god know what is gonna happen before it does? IF so, doesn't that mean he knew the forbidden fruit was going to be eaten? They say god gave us free will, but is it really free if he knows whats gonna happen? 586136851[/snapback] Read Augustine's Confessions for an explanation of how that issue can be worked out. It's pretty intriguing. When I get home I'll check which book (chapter) it's in and let you know. I don't quite remember off th top of my head As to the orignal poster, the Creation story is largely metaphoric. Some explanation was needed to explain why there was sin and suffering in the world that was created by a perfect God. Well, because of his free will, sinful man turned away from God and ruined the pristine condition of the world. The point of the stroy isn't eating the fruit it's going against God's will. Now, obviously if you don't believe in a God who created humans with free will in order to freely choose whether they will love and obey him or not then this won't amtter to you either. But tkaing the Genesis story s strict historical fact is just silly. I am a devout Christian but I think fundamentalists (people who take the Bible as historical fact, are mistaken). The idea is to get the right message not necessarily the characters. O and a philosophy teacher I once had who didn' believe in God said that lack of evidence for something is not proof that it doesn't exist. Basically just because we don't have evidence that God exists doesn't mean he doesn't. Similarly, however, one can argue that just because we can't PROVE that God doesn't exist doesn't mena he does. Ultimately, it comes down to a personal decision and faith. And that's exaclty what faith is in my opinion. You have to take a leap and bleive in something that you may not be able to prove scientifically but still jsut have a feeling about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.nudd Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I find church right now to be a pain in the a@@ too. I don't like my minister at all and he's a moron. The great thing about Christianity is that you can communicate to God without going to church. Church is an integral part of a true Christian, however. If you're right, then Christianity is nothing btu a grand brainwashing scheme. However, at least we're brainwashing people with some sort of good morals. I sincerely hope you're wrong though lol. And by no means od i think less of you as a Neowinian since you're not Christian. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluepride35 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I find church right now to be a pain in the a@@ too. I don't like my minister at all and he's a moron. The great thing about Christianity is that you can communicate to God without going to church. Church is an integral part of a true Christian, however. If you're right, then Christianity is nothing btu a grand brainwashing scheme. However, at least we're brainwashing people with some sort of good morals. I sincerely hope you're wrong though lol. And by no means od i think less of you as a Neowinian since you're not Christian. :yes: 586137413[/snapback] Yeah my own parish is in ruins because our pastor is an old, stubbor, prideful man who refuses to see that he is no longer competent enough to run a parish. But that's not God's fault, IMO. We're human, even the mighty preachers, and we all have our faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheirser Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I find church right now to be a pain in the a@@ too. I don't like my minister at all and he's a moron. The great thing about Christianity is that you can communicate to God without going to church. Church is an integral part of a true Christian, however. If you're right, then Christianity is nothing btu a grand brainwashing scheme. However, at least we're brainwashing people with some sort of good morals. I sincerely hope you're wrong though lol. And by no means od i think less of you as a Neowinian since you're not Christian. :yes: 586137413[/snapback] It's nice to have an argument with you and come out smiling. Ditto ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_dandy_ Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 What I wanna know is if Adam and Eve were the first humans, why is it every single depiction shows them with a bellybutton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheirser Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 What I wanna know is if Adam and Eve were the first humans, why is it every single depiction shows them with a bellybutton? 586137528[/snapback] That's funny. Nice observation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluepride35 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 What I wanna know is if Adam and Eve were the first humans, why is it every single depiction shows them with a bellybutton? 586137528[/snapback] I'm assuming that IS a joke lol. If not, the key word there was depiction. Why do we see God often pictured as an old man with flowing white hair and a beard? Or Jesus as white guy with rather fair skin and blue eyes when he was Middle Eastern? Artists depict things and employ artistic license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.nudd Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Yeah, the depiction is up to the artist's opinion. There was a good, real depiction in Popular Science. They had him look like any normal Middle Eastern person you see (no offense to anyone from the Middle East, I realize I'm generalizing). You obviously have to take an article like this witha grain of salt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukemc86 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I don't believe in what the bible teaches, but I agree that alot of stories contained in the bible are not meant to be taken as literal stories but as metaphors and such. Certainly god wouldn't punish the entire human race because some people ate an apple. If god was really that harsh in punishment would you want to spend eternity with him anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambria Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Certainly god wouldn't punish the entire human race because some people ate an apple. If god was really that harsh in punishment would you want to spend eternity with him anyway? 586146318[/snapback] Unfortunately that's just the way the world works, at least to some extent. Our actions affect our descendants. If one man decides not to do anything with his life, leaving his children poor and homeless on the street, that will affect not only the children, but also the following generations. I realize this is nothing compared to punishing the whole human race, but you also have to remember that at that point the whole human race comprised only 2 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chmsant Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Let me preface my statements with the following. If religion makes you a better person in some way shape or form, then it is good by me. I do not care if you are not a member of my faith, just as long as you are better. Now here are my thoughts. When Adam and Eve were first placed on the earth they were immortal. There was no joy, no sorrow, no pain, nothing. They could not have children. Life was extremely simple. The whole point of this life is free agency, a test to see if we will follow the Lord. God had to introduce a choice into ghe garden, so he gave them 2 great commandments. 1) Dont partake of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and 2) Multiply and replentish the earth. They could however eat from any other tree. (Thus disproving the "hunger" thesis of earlier in the thread) Without partaking from the tree, they could not become mortal with a knowledge of all things, and therefore could not fulfil the 2nd commandment, and we would not be here. Adam did not sin, he transgressed. To sin, is to break a law or commandment with a knowledge that the law exists. To transgress, is to break a law or commandment, without that knowledge. Eve transgressed, Adam followed, and they were removed from Eden. They were able to keep the 2nd commandment, and life went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluepride35 Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 They could not have children. 2) Multiply and replentish the earth. 586150495[/snapback] Ummmm aren't those two statements inconsistent with one another? Was it just a mistake? Or is there some way you think they could have multiplied without having childrne? Becuase i would be interested to hear that. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason S. Global Moderator Posted July 2, 2005 Global Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2005 you have to realize (and research for yourself) that the Adam and Eve story is NOT original to Christianity. NOTHNG in religions are genuine (for the most part i mean)... Adam and Eve is just a reproduction/copy of some story that was told many thousands of years before. It is all symbolic. Youre supposed to find the meaning behind these stories to better yourself in life. Christmas is not original Easter is not original Yule log, ornaments, Christmas tree, Passover, Noah and the Ark, Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Three wise men, their gifts to baby Jesus, Jesus being sacrificed on the cross, resurrection etc... you name it... not original or unique. These are all retellings from earlier "pagan" rituals and stories. You are thinking, and youre trying to find some truth, but thats just it. The truth lies in the real history... not the Bible. The Bible is a wonderful book which acts as a guide for life, but does nothing to tell the truth about the [spiritual] world Now, as for the serpent w/ legs... well i dont really know but perhaps it's referring to the Annunaki :happy: As for research, I highly recommend David Icke's "The Biggest Secret" ... im only on chapter 5 myself, but it is the most eye opening, impressive book ive read. You can even find a free, legal (seriously) pdf copy on the internet through torrents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chmsant Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Ummmm aren't those two statements inconsistent with one another? Was it just a mistake? Or is there some way you think they could have multiplied without having childrne? Becuase i would be interested to hear that. lol 586151697[/snapback] Again if you would read the rest of my statement you would find your answer. They ate of the fruit, thus becoming mortal and able to have children. Breaking the first, but fulfiling the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheirser Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Anyone seen dogma? I think that about sums it up LOL I know it's a fictional comedy - but the fictional side of it reflects slightly what people actually believe, is insane. Yep sure, there was all this magical stuff happening thousands of years ago... ermmm, then why are we so boring now? Why is it that the only magical thing which happens to do with God is just some piece of toast sold on ebay and what people believe in their heads. Crazy I say. Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed. Brainwashing should be a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluepride35 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Again if you would read the rest of my statement you would find your answer. They ate of the fruit, thus becoming mortal and able to have children. Breaking the first, but fulfiling the 2nd. 586153053[/snapback] My mistake. I had read it and just somehow managed to not take that into account. That's actually an interesting theory about the whole issue. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chmsant Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 My mistake. I had read it and just somehow managed to not take that into account. That's actually an interesting theory about the whole issue. :) 586159496[/snapback] No worries, glad you are of an open mind. Makes discussion like this much more pleasant. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason S. Global Moderator Posted July 4, 2005 Global Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2005 Anyone seen dogma?I think that about sums it up LOL I know it's a fictional comedy - but the fictional side of it reflects slightly what people actually believe, is insane. Yep sure, there was all this magical stuff happening thousands of years ago... ermmm, then why are we so boring now? Why is it that the only magical thing which happens to do with God is just some piece of toast sold on ebay and what people believe in their heads. Crazy I say. Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed. Brainwashing should be a sin. 586159228[/snapback] great post... i love that movie... one of my favorites... the best part of the movie is when Selma Hayek says that it doesnt matter what faith you are as long as you have faith. thats exactly what i was trying to convey in my post on page 3... there is no use arguing over which religion is correct b/c frankly theyre all wrong. having faith in something and leading a good life is all that matters b/c none of them are real or genuine. basically lead a good life and make mostly right choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 there is no use arguing over which religion is correct b/c frankly theyre all wrong. having faith in something and leading a good life is all that matters b/c none of them are real or genuine.586160149[/snapback] that is just an opinion. in some people's faiths/religions, leading a good life is all there is, but they have other integrated principles aswell. just because u cant find an added incentive to lead a good life, doesnt mean that other people cant. basically, noone here can actually prove/disprove any religion's ethics, or the religion itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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