Harper under fire for comment on Bloc


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Harper under fire for comment on Bloc support of same-sex marriage

By SUE BAILEY

Peter MacKay.(CP/Fred Chartrand)

OTTAWA (CP) - Stephen Harper says any gay marriage law will be stamped with illegitimacy because it will owe its passage to Quebec separatists.

Same-sex marriage legislation, which will clear the Commons with help from the Bloc Quebecois, would have been thwarted if only federalists MPs were casting ballots, the Conservative leader said. He made the comment hours before the adoption of a Liberal motion that limits debate and sets the stage for a final vote on the bill on Tuesday.

"Because it's being passed with the support of the Bloc, I think it will lack legitimacy with most Canadians," Harper said.

"The truth is most federalist MPs oppose this. It's only a deal with the Bloc that's allowing it to pass."

Conservative justice critic Vic Toews went further.

"The federalist MPs in Canada, the majority of them, would oppose (gay marriage) on a free vote. So what we are seeing now is simply an agreement by this government with the separatist Bloc - who have no long-term interest in staying in Canada."

The comments were swiftly rebuked and mocked by rivals of all political stripes.

"We're elected," said Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe. "Our mandate is every bit as legitimate as any member who sits in this chamber.

"That's what they call democracy."

The Conservatives could help end the Bloc's influence by supporting Quebec independence, Duceppe wryly suggested.

New Democrat Leader Jack Layton said the remarks are further proof of why Conservative popularity has stalled or dropped.

"Mr. Harper is essentially saying that Quebecers' votes don't matter - aren't on an equal par with the rest of Canadians. So he wants to deny equality to same-sex partners, and he wants to deny equality to Quebec voters.

"Maybe Mr. Harper should think about why people aren't listening to him by just simply looking at what he says."

Public Works Minister Scott Brison said Harper's stance is the latest example of his polarizing effect.

"This is another case of Stephen Harper trying to divide Canadians and pit one group against another. For him to imply that federalists are not as supportive of human rights and equality as separatists is truly offensive."

Others openly scoffed at what appeared to be a Conservative bid to link gay rights with separatism.

"Are sovereigntists more homosexual or heterosexual?" quipped Transport Minister Jean Lapierre, the Liberal party's Quebec lieutenant.

"Does (Harper) have a study on that?"

David Docherty, a professor of political science at Wilfrid Laurier University, called the Conservative tactic a "mind-boggling" insult to Quebec. The Bloc, with 54 seats in the 308-seat Commons, is a force that can't be ignored.

"It's silly, is what it is," he said in an interview. "(Harper) really seems to be fumbling the ball."

The Tories themselves counted on help from the Bloc as they tried to bring down the minority Liberals on a May 19 confidence vote, Docherty said.

Harper now seems to be saying that, had the Conservatives won, the victory would have been undermined because the separatists had helped secure it.

"If they ever form a minority government, who are they going to make deals with?" Docherty wondered.

"(Harper) has now essentially written off Quebec."

The legislation will be voted on Tuesday after after the adoption Monday night of a government motion to limit debate to another eight hours.

About a dozen Liberal MPs voted against the motion. Two vocal critics of the same-sex bill, Natural Resources Minister John Efford and Joe Comuzzi, a minister of state, were absent for the vote on the motion.

MPs voted on the bill for a second time just after midnight Tuesday, with 154 MPs voting for the legislaltion and 124 voting against, including 24 Liberals and the NDP's Bev Desjarlais. She could be suspended from caucus for defying party leadership.

Comuzzi abstained.

The third and final vote is expected late Tuesday afternoon or early evening.

The bill that would make Canada just the third country worldwide to legalize gay marriage is expected to clear the Commons and the Senate by the end of July.

Only Belgium and the Netherlands permit same-sex weddings.

A roster of right-wing groups under the banner Defend Marriage Canada plans to fight the legislation to the end.

"We're bringing our bus and we'll do a press conference," said spokesman Charles McVety, president of Canada Christian College.

The group plans to arrive Tuesday on Parliament Hill to keep up pressure against same-sex marriage.

"I fear radical social change thrust upon a nation that is not asking for it," McVety said.

It is like he just doesn't care about what he sais. First he tries to use the Bloc to force an election. Now he condemns them and the Gov't...

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This is why the Liberals get elected. Quebec votes for the Bloc and the rest of the country picks the least offensive party in the middle.

The Conservatives are looking for a "wedge" issue. They figure if they can get enough support from single-issue voters that those wedges will add up to a large enough slice of pie.

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Wow ... just wow ... I can't believe Steven Harper made a statement like that.  What on Earth did he hope to gain from that?

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I guess trying to devide the nation...

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I guess trying to devide the nation...

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That's what ****es me off the most about him. He's actively trying to pin half of the country against the other. :no:

All I can say is, thank you Ontario, for stoping him. Please do it again! BC Seems to have this bad habbit of always voting for the opposition, which only exaserbates the alienation problem(s). I think every Liberal in BC was appointed to cabinet (all 3 I think).

-Ax

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New today: Liberals have 41% of B.C., while the Tories only have 22%, and the New Democrats at 29%. Finally! We're back on the winning side! B.C. is now more of a Liberal supporter than most provinces.

I couldn't believe that Stephen Harper would make a statement that is so anti-democratic. Imagine if Paul Martin said that Conservative MP's shouldn't have their votes count: Would Harper be as amused? Seriously, Harper and his crew (i.e. John Reynolds, Peter MacKay) keep dropping bombs, failing at diplomacy: Hyperboles, personal insults, outrageous analogies, and now this keep me thinking "What is he doing there?"

Same-sex bill to pass today! :cool:

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New today: Liberals have 41% of B.C., while the Tories only have 22%, and the New Democrats at 29%. Finally! We're back on the winning side! B.C. is now more of a Liberal supporter than most provinces.

I couldn't believe that Stephen Harper would make a statement that is so anti-democratic. Imagine if Paul Martin said that Conservative MP's shouldn't have their votes count: Would Harper be as amused? Seriously, Harper and his crew (i.e. John Reynolds, Peter MacKay) keep dropping bombs, failing at diplomacy: Hyperboles, personal insults, outrageous analogies, and now this keep me thinking "What is he doing there?"

Same-sex bill to pass today!  :cool:

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I wonder if Harper is going to throw a fit...

Annnnnnnnd it has passed.

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I wonder if Harper is going to throw a fit...

Annnnnnnnd it has passed.

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He said that if the conservatives were elected, there would be another vote.

Personally, its social conservatives like Harper that are ruining the Conservative party.

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I wish I knew about the intricacies of your government, it sounds very interesting. I'm kind of sick of hearing about all the problems our government is having, so I'd like to hear about yours :laugh: :)

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I wish I knew about the intricacies of your government, it sounds very interesting. I'm kind of sick of hearing about all the problems our government is having, so I'd like to hear about yours :laugh: :)

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Things are a little crazy at the moment because we are in a minority government (the first in three decades) so nothing is guaranteed. The Liberal Party is ruling but with less than 50% of the seats, the opposition could gang up and defeat the government at any time. Doing so on a major piece of legislation would defeat the government and send the nation back to the polls for another election. That is something that most Canadians do not want. It also is likely not to change anything.

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Arrogant Easterners. I say we cut off all money, resources from flowing into the east and start trading with the US directly.

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I assume you are talking to me personally because every other Canadian posting in this forum has been from the West (mostly B.C.)

A quick note. Resources do not flow from B.C. to the East. They flow from Ontario and Alberta to B.C. (or at least the net result of the flow does).

Perhaps when the softwood lumber crisis is solved (if ever) B.C. will again contribute to the wealth of the nation.

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Perhaps when the softwood lumber crisis is solved (if ever) B.C. will again contribute to the wealth of the nation.

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The Liberal government isn't putting enough pressure on the US, without that, I don't see it being solved for a long time.

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I assume you are talking to me personally because every other Canadian posting in this forum has been from the West (mostly B.C.)

A quick note.? Resources do not flow from B.C. to the East.? They flow from Ontario and Alberta to B.C. (or at least the net result of the flow does).

Perhaps when the softwood lumber crisis is solved (if ever) B.C. will again contribute to the wealth of the nation.

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Some refined/manufactered goods flow back to the west and the reason for this is historical. When the railway was being created, the government discouraged development of heavy industry in the west so that raw resources would flow eastward. When I say the "west", I'm talking about BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. The west supplies the east with resources, energy (oil and natural gas) and food. The western provinces have also traditionally been "have" provinces whereas Quebec and the Maritimes have been "have not" provinces. For many years, there was a great deal more money leaving the west than there was returning in the form of federal funding. Despite the "softwood" lumber issue, BC is well on the way to being a "have" province again despite the lack of efforts by Ottawa on the lumber issue.

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I assume you are talking to me personally because every other Canadian posting in this forum has been from the West (mostly B.C.)

A quick note.  Resources do not flow from B.C. to the East.  They flow from Ontario and Alberta to B.C. (or at least the net result of the flow does).

Perhaps when the softwood lumber crisis is solved (if ever) B.C. will again contribute to the wealth of the nation.

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Pft thats it, no more Douglas Fir for you!!!

You forget about the massive amounts of salmon we pump out, along with the Diamond mines in norther BC, as well as the inexorbitant amounts of both Copper and Coal, gravel, and sheer beauty! But best of all, we can grow crops all year round in the Lower Mainland. I'll be sure to post results of the palm tree count next Feburary! :laugh:

Ha, aristotle you make us Westerners look bad by blaming all of the countries problems on Ontario. Sure their heads my be inexplicably large, but they do more good than bad. And they do pump a ton of cash into Confederation. I mean look at those smelters go!

One thing I've never understood is why the rest of the country is paying through the nose for electricity, yet here in BC we have 13 hydro electric plants idling at ~5% merely to keep everything moving. It doesn't make sense to me :s.

Right now BC has the highest job creation rate in the country. We simply can't build enough homes right now (the house I'm in has double in value (went from 515,000 to 1.1mil in 5 years). Its amazing how much this province is growing, and how fast.

There building a new Sea port in Prince Rupert right now that will be the primary port to and from China in North America (being the shortest route out there). This province is about to blow the doors off of the country within 10 years.

-Ax

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Axon, you are not a Westerner, you're a Federal Liberal. You cannot be both. :D

Be sure to thank your precious Federal Liberals for blocking economic prosperity that the offshore oil and gas would bring Canada.

Imagine not having a provincial sales tax like Alberta.

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Be sure to thank your precious Federal Liberals for blocking economic prosperity that the offshore oil and gas would bring Canada.

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As much money as it would bring into the province (we might even be able to dwarf McMurrey with it), there is a massive risk of an 'Exxon Valdez' type incident, which would have all the hippies and green thumbs in BC castrating any administration they can find.

Remember BC is home to three industries: Whailing, Forestry, and Tourism. The main hobbies of British Columbias are: Anti-Whailing, Anti-Forestry, and Anti-tourism!

(Well there isn't really whailing anymore).

Axon, you are not a Westerner, you're a Federal Liberal. You cannot be both. :D

Heh, I've been one since I was 14 :whistle:.

-Ax

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Liberals are now the favoured sons of British Columbia!  :D

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You do realize that that Provincial Liberals are more closely associated with the Federal Conservatives don't you?

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The British Columbia and Alberta Liberals are in no way associated with the federal Liberals. However, a new poll in British Columbia placed support for the federal parties at 41% for the Liberals, 29% for the NDP, and 22% for the Tories.

That is more support for the Liberals and the NDP than most of the country, meaning British Columbia has shifted to a Liberal supporter. (Personal comment: YES!!!)

When the election is called this winter, I will be putting all my support behind our local Liberal candidate. I am not in support of our Conservative MP, a former member of the priesthood, nor his leader.

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I love these numbers! It's about friggen time this province learned they will never get anything from the centre of the universe unless they get some representation there.

Wish Alberta could catch on too :p

-Ax

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