oddcrap Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 RANKFURT - Astronomical costs for delivering hydrogen-powered cars and the network to run them mean clean vehicles are years away from competing against today's polluting rivals, even if oil prices stay at record highs. Proponents of the technology still insist that 5 million to 10 million cars running on hydrogen-fed fuel cells and emitting only water vapour could be on the road within 15 years, with the number ballooning to 350 million by 2050. But the dream will only come true if the companies driving the change can make fuel cells better and cheaper, while securing the billions of dollars needed to finance comprehensive hydrogen infrastructure at a time of stretched public coffers. "I am very, very confident that that kind of technology will come and that we will have the chance to drive with that kind of technology and fuel, but it needs a little bit more time," said Herbert Kohler, DaimlerChrysler's head of body and powertrain research and the group's chief environmental officer. The German-American carmaker has over 100 demonstration fuel-cell cars, vans and buses on the road around the world. "We will expect to have a (commercial) start-up in 2012, 2015," Kohler said in a telephone interview. "We would be glad to have 100,000 (fuel cell) cars in 2015." The question is whether such cars can compete on cost and quality against standard gasoline- or diesel-powered cars, even if oil prices remain around their record $60 a barrel now. Lars Peter Thiesen, head of hydrogen fuel cell deployment strategy at General Motors in Germany, said a decade of serious work by pioneers has now shown fuel cell cars work in a variety of climates and under real-world conditions. But efforts to boost performance by adding more platinum to fuel cells, for instance, will only increase already high costs that experts say must fall by at least a factor of 10. "The decisive point is that these two goals -- durability and costs -- have to be met at the same time," Thiesen said. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoy Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Hydrogen stuff is way too expensive for any practical application and some time off IMO. Build us a better hybrid! Luckily - Toyota is... even now, the modified Prius can get to 160 mpg... now put some Li Ion batteries in there and it should not be too hard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint0 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 hehe rankfurt :happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Douglas Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 If we know anything about technology is that it will keep getting cheaper, smaller and more efficient. No one was seriously predicting fuel cell cars (for consumer usage) by 2005 anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceDogg Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 The faster they can get this so everyone can use them, the better. This is needed so badly on so many levels it's unbelievable that more has not been put into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlibbyFlobby Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I think the lack of interest in renewable energy sources in general is pretty pathetic. Solar panels can power houses, cars could run on electricity or compressed air, wind farms could power entire cities yet governments are pushing for nuclear technology and nuclear waste. I think governments should be held accountable and if more and more green solutions arent produced each year, the government should be forcibly removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novaoblivion Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 ^^ :yes: I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted July 1, 2005 Veteran Share Posted July 1, 2005 Since this isn't directly related to Neowin's focus on Personal Computers, I'll move this to NFN. Good story though. I'm always interested in alternatives to gasoline. [Thread Moved from BPN to NFN] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys4me Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I think the lack of interest in renewable energy sources in general is pretty pathetic. Solar panels can power houses, cars could run on electricity or compressed air, wind farms could power entire cities yet governments are pushing for nuclear technology and nuclear waste. I think governments should be held accountable and if more and more green solutions arent produced each year, the government should be forcibly removed. 586145800[/snapback] It's not quite that simple... * There's a great deal of greenhouse emissions generated in the creation of solar panels, which significantly reduces the overall benefit of using them... not to mention the solid waste that must be disposed of when they reach the end of their lifecycle. * Cars can certainly run on electricity or compressed air, but what are you using to generate the energy? You'll need some sort of energy to compress the air. * Wind farms have their own environmental impact issues, there's a great number of birds killed from flying into the blades, as well as their impact on normal wind patterns in the areas they're in. There could potentially be significant problems were they to be deployed in large numbers. * Nuclear energy can be generated in much safer ways... a great example is pebble-bed reactors: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/china.html * If you want to move towards a really promising alternative fuel you should look towards biodiesel produced from algae grown in salt water: http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html Nothing will change until the consumer forces it, either because traditional fuels become too expensive, pollution becomes too extreme, or enough of them express the will for the changes they desire. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter-X Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 * Wind farms have their own environmental impact issues, there's a great number of birds killed from flying into the blades, as well as their impact on normal wind patterns in the areas they're in. There could potentially be significant problems were they to be deployed in large numbers. Poor birds... again :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn00pie Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 I think full-on battery cars are the way to go, if only we (humans) could find away to devolop very long lasting and durable batteries that could power a car for 48 hours on a single charge, plus be able to reach speeds up 100km/h, then that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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