Karl Rove revealed as CIA Leak


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We just got over the whole Durbin thing, just with the tables turned now. By this standard, lets just requre Rove to give a pseudo-apology and be done with it.

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Quick comparison: Durbin was making a PUBLIC statement about his feelings about the US Army's prison system, which he believed to be un-american (I think he was right, personally, but that doesn't matter right now).

Rove leaked the name of a CIA operative to the press, questionably against the law, but totally against the ethics of a white house insider. Even Bush said that whoever was responsible would be fired. He's backing off now that he realizes it's someone so close to him, but I doubt the press will do the same.

So far I've really only seen mediocre responses from the right - Rush Limbaugh just blathers about how this is a non-issue, and how we should be focusing on terrorism, blah blah. Anyone have anything else to say that hasn't been said?

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I understand why Rumsfeld wasn't fired, even though there is no reason for him not to be. But if Rove isn't fired I will lose all respect in the current white house.

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This WSJ annonymous article is beyond spin, it is brain-washing.

In Case You Missed It: Karl Rove, Whistleblower

From The Wall Street Journal

Review & Outlook

July 13, 2005

Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.

For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.

Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. ... But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.

On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail. ...

In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.

If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe. ...

Now look at the Fmr. RNC chairman's comments 2 years ago:

CHRIS MATTHEWS: Don't you think it's more serious than Watergate, when you think about it?

RNC CHAIRMAN ED GILLESPIE: I think if the allegation is true, to reveal the identity of an undercover CIA operative -- it's abhorrent, and it should be a crime, and it is a crime.

CHRIS MATTHEWS: It'd be worse than Watergate, wouldn't it?

GILLESPIE: It's -- Yeah, I suppose in terms of the real world implications of it. It's not just politics.

ENOUGH ALREADY

This is beyond absurd. The man committed a crime. Would someone PLEASE arrest him!!!

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I understand why Rumsfeld wasn't fired, even though there is no reason for him not to be. But if Rove isn't fired I will lose all respect in the current white house.

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shocked you havent lost it already....

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I don't have a whole lot, but this is really the deal breaker in my eyes. But this is just something that will really change the way I see them. I mean Bush flat out said he woudl fire them and if he doesn't just because it is Rove then it is completely obvious that they just don't care about what they say or people think. The sad thing is that even if they don't there probably won't be much public outcry either. Hopefully if nothing happens the American people will force the White House to hold people accountable no matter who it is. Because as it stands you can order torture and lie and not be touched, now we wait to see if treason is an acceptable offence in Bush's White House.

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I mean Bush flat out said he woudl fire them....

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Believe he said they would be "taken care of." Not fired. Time for another medal ceremony is my guess how Bush will "take care of" ol' Karl.

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Believe he said they would be "taken care of." Not fired. Time for another medal ceremony is my guess how Bush will "take care of" ol' Karl.

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Bush's quote from the G8 summit:

Q: Given recent developments in the CIA leak case, particularly Vice President [Dick] Cheney's discussions with the investigators, do you still stand by what you said several months ago, a suggestion that it might be difficult to identify anybody who leaked the agent's name?

BUSH: That's up to --

Q: And, and, do you stand by your pledge to fire anyone found to have done so?

BUSH: Yes. And that's up to the U.S. attorney to find the facts.

http://mediamatters.org/static/video/specr...00507120004.mov

interesting the kind of spin that FOX news puts on this kind of thing...

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Quick comparison: Durbin was making a PUBLIC statement about his feelings about the US Army's prison system, which he believed to be un-american (I think he was right, personally, but that doesn't matter right now). 

Rove leaked the name of a CIA operative to the press, questionably against the law, but totally against the ethics of a white house insider.  Even Bush said that whoever was responsible would be fired.  He's backing off now that he realizes it's someone so close to him, but I doubt the press will do the same.

So far I've really only seen mediocre responses from the right - Rush Limbaugh just blathers about how this is a non-issue, and how we should be focusing on terrorism, blah blah.  Anyone have anything else to say that hasn't been said?

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Wait a moment, and lets look at that. Durbin's statements were considered by many to be questionably treasonous, while others chose to interpret them as petty. Same with Rove. Huge difference? Not really. What makes the difference is which side of the fence you're looking out from, and how big of an issue you choose to make out of it.

Should he be fired? If we're going by the current standards of political repremanding, then no. My guess is Rove will make an apology and in a couple weeks this will be a non-issue. Its another Durbin-esqe distraction.

As for Bush, don't jump on him so fast when they haven't even what Rove's alleged leaking of information contitutes yet. Sheesh.

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Rove's always been a douchebag anyways, I'd like to see him go.

Now whether he did anything wrong or not is not really known to me but I do have a low opinion of Bush and the government. If there's one thing Democracy has allowed us to do it's escape responsibility for our actions. Those people pretty much have immunity, so even if Rove is guilty of something nothing will happen to him, but I expect nothing less from our government.

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Rove's always been a douchebag anyways, I'd like to see him go.

Now whether he did anything wrong or not is not really known to me but I do have a low opinion of Bush and the government.  If there's one thing Democracy has allowed us to do it's escape responsibility for our actions.  Those people pretty much have immunity, so even if Rove is guilty of something nothing will happen to him, but I expect nothing less from our government.

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Wow, I hope you didn't mean what that sounds like. You want to be rid of Rove because you dislike the admistration, even though you don't really know if he did anything wrong?

As for "getting away" with things, it happens all the time. One both sides. That's politics.

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As for "getting away" with things, it happens all the time. One both sides. That's politics.

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I know, I have no dissilusions with the other parties.

As for Rove, I don't want him to go to jail or anything if he did nothing wrong here, I just think he's morally bankrupt and would like to see him leave politics.

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this just in: FOX News anchor John Gibson just said onair that he thought Karl Rove deserves a medal if he outed Valerie Plame.

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Wait a moment, and lets look at that. Durbin's statements were considered by many to be questionably treasonous, while others chose to interpret them as petty. Same with Rove. Huge difference? Not really. What makes the difference is which side of the fence you're looking out from, and how big of an issue you choose to make out of it.

Should he be fired? If we're going by the current standards of political repremanding, then no. My guess is Rove will make an apology and in a couple weeks this will be a non-issue. Its another Durbin-esqe distraction.

As for Bush, don't jump on him so fast when they haven't even what Rove's alleged leaking of information contitutes yet. Sheesh.

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But did Durbin comprimise national security? Exposing Plame as a CIA operative put potentially hundreds of other operatives at risk - Durbin only compared Guantanamo Bay to a Soviet Gulag. How is this similar?

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Wait a moment, and lets look at that. Durbin's statements were considered by many to be questionably treasonous, while others chose to interpret them as petty. Same with Rove. Huge difference? Not really. What makes the difference is which side of the fence you're looking out from, and how big of an issue you choose to make out of it.

Should he be fired? If we're going by the current standards of political repremanding, then no. My guess is Rove will make an apology and in a couple weeks this will be a non-issue. Its another Durbin-esqe distraction.

As for Bush, don't jump on him so fast when they haven't even what Rove's alleged leaking of information contitutes yet. Sheesh.

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Durbin's statement did not put anyone in danger. Rove's leak, however, compromised not only the identity of a CIA agent, but national security as well. This is no "distraction" ? it's rather obvious that he was making a thuggish attempt to get back at Wilson for his public critiques of the Bush administration.

If you or I did the same thing today, rest assured we'd be in prison tomorrow, or worse.

And the White House lied about it. You might want to read the statements again, they're right there, in quotes, just a few pages back. If Bush doesn't fire Rove for leaking this information, it's another lie.

I think not being furious about the office of the leader of our country openly lying is a great litmus test for unreasonable bias.

I didn't like the fact that Clinton lied to us about his infidelity (and I'm sure you didn't either,) but this is about lives and national security. It most certainly is a big deal.

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SOURCE

WASHINGTON (AP) - Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of an undercover CIA officer but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.

The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.

Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame's identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story.

The conversation eventually turned to Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration's use of faulty intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, the person said.

Rove testified that Novak told him he planned to report in a weekend column that Plame had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims that Iraq was trying to buy nuclear materials in Niger, according to the source.

Novak's column, citing two Bush administration officials, appeared six days later, touching off a political firestorm and leading to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's undercover identity. That probe has ensnared presidential aides and reporters in a two-year legal battle.

Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson's wife from another member of the news media but he could not recall which reporter had told him about it first, the person said.

When Novak inquired about Wilson's wife working for the CIA, Rove indicated he had heard something like that, according to the source's recounting of the grand jury testimony.

Rove told the grand jury that three days later, he had a phone conversation with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and - in an effort to discredit some of Wilson's allegations - informally told Cooper that he believed Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, though he never used her name, the source said.

An e-mail Cooper recently provided the grand jury shows Cooper reported to his magazine bosses that Rove had described Wilson's wife in a confidential conversation as someone who "apparently works" at the CIA.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, said Thursday his client truthfully testified to the grand jury and expected to be exonerated.

"Karl provided all pertinent information to prosecutors a long time ago," Luskin said. "And prosecutors confirmed when he testified most recently in October 2004 that he is not a target of the investigation."

In an interview on CNN earlier Thursday before the latest revelation, Wilson kept up his criticism of the White House, saying Rove's conduct was an "outrageous abuse of power ... certainly worthy of frog-marching out of the White House."

But at the same time, Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said.

Federal law prohibits government officials from divulging the identity of an undercover intelligence officer. But in order to bring charges, prosecutors must prove the official knew the officer was covert and nonetheless knowingly outed his or her identity.

Rove's conversations with Novak and Cooper took place just days after Wilson suggested in a New York Times opinion piece that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

Democrats continued this week to sharpen their attacks, accusing Rove of compromising a CIA operative's identity just to discredit the political criticism of her husband.

On Thursday, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada pressed for legislation to strip Rove of his clearance for classified information, which he said President Bush should have done already. Instead, Reid said, the Bush administration has attacked its critics: "This is what is known as a cover-up. This is an abuse of power."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said Democrats were resorting to "partisan war chants."

Across the Capitol, Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., introduced legislation for an investigation that would compel senior administration officials to turn over records relating to the Plame disclosure.

Pressed to explain its statements of two years ago that Rove wasn't involved in the leak, the White House refused to do so this week.

"If I were to get into discussing this, I would be getting into discussing an investigation that continues and could be prejudging the outcome of the investigation," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

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SOURC

CIA 'outing' might fall short of crime

By Mark Memmott, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON ? The alleged crime at the heart of a controversy that has consumed official Washington ? the "outing" of a CIA officer ? may not have been a crime at all under federal law, little-noticed details in a book by the agent's husband suggest.

In The Politics of Truth, former ambassador Joseph Wilson writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

Six years later, in July 2003, the name of the CIA officer ? Valerie Plame ? was revealed by columnist Robert Novak.

The column's date is important because the law against unmasking the identities of U.S. spies says a "covert agent" must have been on an overseas assignment "within the last five years." The assignment also must be long-term, not a short trip or temporary post, two experts on the law say. Wilson's book makes numerous references to the couple's life in Washington over the six years up to July 2003.

"Unless she was really stationed abroad sometime after their marriage," she wasn't a covert agent protected by the law, says Bruce Sanford, an attorney who helped write the 1982 act that protects covert agents' identities.

Let's not let these pesky details get in the way though...

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Interesting---

The law that Rove could have been breaking was very specific - I doubt whether or not he broke it. My main beef with him was his ethics and professional credibility. That said, it may turn out he wasn't responsible for anything - though the news media isn't likely to let this go anytime soon - they did lose one of their own because of this.

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NEW DEVELOPMENTS:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte..._print/asection

White House senior adviser Karl Rove, after telling Time reporter Matthew Cooper in 2003 that the wife of an administration critic worked for the CIA, closed the conversation by noting "I've already said too much," Cooper said yesterday in recounting his testimony before a federal grand jury.

Well, now he's back into it, deep. Now that it's basically clear that Rove leaked Plame's identity to the press, Bush will either stand by his words that he would fire anyone responsible for the leak or he will stand by his loyalties and support Rove.

Interestingly enough, going by what the reporter's testimony says, Rove knew he was breaking the law. Now we can see whether he is going to be indicted or not.

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ditto, i will record the hearings and press briefings that follow cause i want to be able to watch it over and over. karl is a smart man, his campaign was very smart if not weasle like but i am a firm believer of what pxleyes says, what goes around comes around and when you carry out 2 elections in such a manner as that, hes gonna burn for it. im gonna go break out the popcorn so i can enjoy all of this, hehe

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