My thoughts on IE7


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with 85% of the market....IE is the standard. w3c can say whatever the hell it likes but it counts for nothing in reality.

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Really? How about the market that was already implemented before IE? :rolleyes:

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with 85% of the market....IE is the standard. w3c can say whatever the hell it likes but it counts for nothing in reality.

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If that was a legitimate reason, why would they bother updating IE?

Microsoft will get bit in the ass eventually for not adhereing to standards.

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If that was a legitimate reason, why would they bother updating IE? 

Microsoft will get bit in the ass eventually for not adhereing to standards.

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well it doesnt look like they've been too worried about it this time round does it?

and when do you expect IE8? i dont see it for a while yet.

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after playing around with IE for the past few hours, I have the following to report

I enjoy the new RSS functions, it works much better than I was expecting it to.

I do not like the tabs above the toolbar, perhaps it is just personal opinion, but I feel that it is annoying.

CSS still does not work correctly. THIS is the biggest disappointment of all. I was really hoping that MS would have supported the standards.

All in all, I am quite positive that this will shape up into something great and I hope that CSS support comes along in a future beta,

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I am dissapointed in the CSS issue too, espeically z-index. :angry: :angry:

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well it doesnt look like they've been too worried about it this time round does it?

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They are. Why do you think they are trying to implement proper CSS handling among other things that the w3c proclame? Just for fun? :huh:

Again, like I said (and you just ignored conveniently) A full market of standards was already implemente before IE, or do you think IE was the first browser on earth? Maybe you are too young to remember that Netscape used to own 98% of the browser territory.

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The only feature that impressed me is that it succesfully imported my Firefox Bookmarks form a file which as I remember was not possible in IE6.

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Really? How about the market that was already implemented before IE?  :rolleyes:

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does it matter what the market was before IE? IE is over a decade old and has been the incumbent for about 8 of those years with almost total domination.

people talk endlessly about the "standard". IE is the standard. its used by a huge majority so it is the standard everything else bases itself off regardless of what people think is the truth.

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well it doesnt look like they've been too worried about it this time round does it?

and when do you expect IE8? i dont see it for a while yet.

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Nope, they didn't. And yeah IE 8 won't be out until like 2010 :p

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They are. Why do you think they are trying to implement proper CSS handling among other things that the w3c proclame? Just for fun?  :huh:

Again, like I said (and you just ignored conveniently) A full market of standards was already implemente before IE, or do you think IE was the first browser on earth? Maybe you are too young to remember that Netscape used to own 98% of the browser territory.

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you're only slightly older than me so cut the childish crap about what age we are.

i remember netscape...i remember using it...i also remember IE coming along and being better ;)

as for standards...you are only the standard as long as you get used. IE hasnt bothered with many of these so called "standards" you speak of in the past, and as the only browser worth speaking of, they arent exactly standard anymore are they...

thats the fundamental point.

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does it matter what the market was before IE?

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Yes, because IE was created based on those standards, period. Beign the dominating browser doesnt makes it the best nor the stabdard, just the lowest common denominator.

If we all follow your logic then the web technology should be developed at the same pace IE its beign developed, but not even the MSIE team follows your logic since they have been working on IE to have those standards for years.

But I am sure you are still going to deny all of this. Whatever floats your boat.

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I have to side with sanctified on this one.

On a related note, does anyone know how to revert back to IE6 since IE7B1 sucks and doesn't work with Windows Update

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I am by no means a firefox fanboy

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yea right.....

it is VERY overhyped, overrated and ultimately sucky.

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thats exactly that firefox is!

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yea right.....

thats exactly that firefox is!

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What a substantial post!

And no, I'm not a fan boy because I still use IE often. However, this version lacks a lot of things. Is Firefox perfect? No.

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I feel pages load faster although this could just be in my head and I do like the smoothness with which opening links in new tabs is done especially as I right click a lot of links in ie6 and choose to open in a new window, the open in new tab is just as easy and its placement allows me to do it without thinking.

I don't like the "new page" tab to the right of the tabs, I don't know if this can be removed but its not a big deal so I haven't looked. I would like more control over where I place the tabs, file menu and address bar as I feel somewhat restricted right now and it all looks a bit out of place however its very early in design so I'm sure that will be offered.

I dont like the way the links toolbar spaces out icons at all, longer names look squshed together while short names look too far apart. Ive also noticed the links toolbar closing on me a few times when I open a new page.

All in all I think its very good for people who are used to Internet explorer and have had trouble moving to new browsers layout like myself. I initially didn't like the look but after using it for the last few hours I'm now wondering if I might keep ie7 and just live with some sites not fully working with it right now or whether to go back to ie6 and miss ie7's new features.

I'm looking forward to future releases.

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Yes, because IE was created based on those standards, period. Beign the dominating browser doesnt makes it the best nor the stabdard, just the lowest common denominator.

If we all follow your logic then the web technology should be developed at the same pace IE its beign developed, but not even the MSIE team follows your logic since they have been working on IE to have those standards for years.

But I am sure you are still going to deny all of this. Whatever floats your boat.

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um...when you have a browser with over 90% of the total users online using it, and often it alone, you're damn right "web technology" gets developed at a pace closely linked to the browser in question. why do something if you wont have it working correctly on the dominant browser?

if the IE developers want to implement these "standards" you speak of then thats fine. when they do, then they will become standards. until then, they are used and supported in the minority.

by definition something cant be a standard until it is the measure by which is everything else is compared. internet explorer is, has been for many years, and will continue to be this benchmark for a long time to come due to a variety of factors. this is why just about every god damned site on the internet will work properly in IE unless its been developed in a way that makes sure it wont operate correctly. many times ive even seen the designer bragging about it. shame he/she has just cut 8/10 of the potential userbase out of the game. real smart one there!

thats the plain and simple fact of the matter. whether IE is the best or not isnt actually of relevence. infact, i usually use opera 8 because i used its built in IRC, tabs and other features which IE lacked even though it barely manages to load the tables of this very forum right. i even made sure my small personal site that gets maybe a few hundred visitors managed to load correctly on all the browsers i tested. infact it uses a javascript menu that works in IE and FF but not opera, so i had to do another textual menu in the background so other folks could use it aswell even though it maybe affected a handful of people. like you (i suspect), i dont enjoy coming across a site that doesnt work right in the browser im using and i use at least 5 different ones pretty regularly

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um...when you have a browser with over 90% of the total users online using it, and often it alone, you're damn right "web technology" gets developed at a pace closely linked to the browser in question. why do something if you wont have it working correctly on the dominant browser?

if the IE developers want to implement these "standards" you speak of then thats fine. when they do, then they will become standards. until then, they are used and supported in the minority.

by definition something cant be a standard until it is the measure by which is everything else is compared. internet explorer is, has been for many years, and will continue to be this benchmark for a long time to come due to a variety of factors. this is why just about every god damned site on the internet will work properly in IE unless its been developed in a way that makes sure it wont operate correctly. many times ive even seen the designer bragging about it. shame he/she has just cut 8/10 of the potential userbase out of the game. real smart one there!

thats the plain and simple fact of the matter. whether IE is the best or not isnt actually of relevence. infact, i usually use opera 8 because i used its built in IRC, tabs and other features which IE lacked even though it barely manages to load the tables of this very forum right. i even made sure my small personal site that gets maybe a few hundred visitors managed to load correctly on all the browsers i tested. infact it uses a javascript menu that works in IE and FF but not opera, so i had to do another textual menu in the background so other folks could use it aswell even though it maybe affected a handful of people. like you (i suspect), i dont enjoy coming across a site that doesnt work right in the browser im using and i use at least 5 different ones pretty regularly

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Most people's gripe with IE is that it's counter-productive to web-tech developement because it doesn't support the standards. IE is very much sub-standard in that respect.

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um...when you have a browser with over 90% of the total users online using it, and often it alone, you're damn right "web technology" gets developed at a pace closely linked to the browser in question. why do something if you wont have it working correctly on the dominant browser?

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I did read your entire paragraph but your entire point was lost in this first part. Its obvious you dont have an idea of the many web technologies thatve been using externaly and internaly in many busines models are currently unsupported on IE. Clearly the web its moving faster than its "standard" browser. Funny, huh?

I am out, clearly you are not open for the facts nor I do not have the patience for this.

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Most people's gripe with IE is that it's counter-productive to web-tech developement because it doesn't support the standards.  IE is very much sub-standard in that respect.

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it may well be counter-productive as you say.

in life competition breeds innovation and the more browsers you have with different features the better.

my point is that regardless of what you name "standard" or what organisation says is standard, it simply ISNT until IE, at present the dominant browser, implements it. people are getting back to front.

sanctified wont agree that IE is holding anything back though. his logic wont allow it.

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sanctified wont agree that IE is holding anything back though. his logic wont allow it.

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Dont make the mistake of thinking I am on your same league. I am not a fanboy whatsoever. You are. I use many web rendering engines thanks to my career and personally I use both Gecko and IE NCSA Mosaic in my home computer.

I just attend to the facts, thats it.

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IE7 is a massive disappointment. It looks like they've just made a bunch of cosmetic and GUI changes but have done nothing to the rendering engine. The Acid Test2 renders exactly the same as it does in IE6.

Seems like they sorted the PNGs out. Better late than never I suppose.

The cherry on the cake for me was that it crashed XP when visiting a particular site. The site happened to be Windows Update.

They've been working for around a year on this, and this is all they've got to show for it.

I'm bitterly disappointed.

[update]

After visiting Eric Meyer's CSS2 test pages, it's clear that there's been very little work done to improve IE's CSS2 rendering. Safari, Firefox, Opera and Konqueror all do a better job.

Edited by ctomer
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CSS still does not work correctly. THIS is the biggest disappointment of all. I was really hoping that MS would have supported the standards.

That's the only bit I'm interested in. If they still can't be bothered to get that right, I sure as hell can't be bothered to give it another chance. What CSS have they fixed, if any? Box model?

If, after all this time, it still can't match Firefox or Opera for CSS support, then what worth is it?

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Just an opinion:

I spent hours in front of PC, searching the web for IE7, and I finnaly found it. I was very happy, so I have tried to install it as soon as i could, but... in the begin of installation process an error occurred as I already expected, because my version of Xp was in portuguese. I spent more three hours trying to run it (WinRAR to uncompress, copy files do Win directory, delete up-date folder, and it works) and finnaly it worked... When I look at the IE window... I feel bad. I was very disapointed, because I was expecting something great, something new (not a rip of firefox with IE render engine). Altough I must admit that pages render very fast in IE, the pop-up blocking blocked almost all pop-ups I could test. However, there is no easy-way to control javascript (for example disable annoyances like scroll text on status bar or Window resize). The tab system could be better, specially because the New Tab buttom sucks. I'll continue using Firefox as my default browser, because I think at the moment, it's the best browser avaliable, i know some of you will disagree, and that is legitimate. I respect your opinions, wich doensn't mean I agree with all. If I were at IE development team I would work hard to improve the GUI, create and easy way to install add-ons (something like QCD103 theme viewer and installer | www.quinnware.com |), add some options to control Javascript and ActiveX, and add an adblocker. For me, these are the more important ones.

However I really belive that IE team will develop a high quality application, with a lot of interesting options. I think the browsers-war as just begin.

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