A Challenge: Debunking Vista FUD


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Please see the bottom of this post for a list of links to information on what will and won't be in Longhorn, among other things

As most of you can probably tell, there is a lot of FUD and misinformation about Vista about there. Some of it includes the following:

- Vista is nothing more than a facelift to XP with some pretty transparent windows, just a new skin.

- Most of Vista's features have been cut anyway

- Vista is vaporware

- Vista won't offer that many new changes

- It will break compatibility with XP and other versions of windows.

- WinFS was cut

- Vista won't offer the search features they promised

- Minimum requirements are 3Ghz computer with 1gb of memory...

And so on..

Anyone with half a brain knows that these things are not true (at this point). There is solid facts out there to debunk this information.

Here's what I know, and I have sources to back this up:

- Vista is much more than a face-lift. The amount of changes going into Vista is huge. For an incomplete feature-list, view http://www.weakmind.org/upload/files/LonghornFeatures.html which was compiled by our own megamanXploision

- Only thing that has been cut from Vista is the "sidebar".

- WinFS won't ship with Vista, but it wasn't cut, just delayed.

- Monad wasn't cut either: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050613_184624.html

- Existing windows apps are expected to work on Vista. Only cases where they may not are when it is neccesary to provide better security. But any major software that breaks will likely have a new version out when Vista is shipped. MS has always been good with compatiobility, no reason to think they will change now.

- The fast searching promised is still expected for Vista. In fact, it is IN beta1 (though still undergoing improvements)

- Minimum requirements were stated on MSDN by an MS employee to be 800mhz with 128mb of memory for classic tier. More if you use Aero. 3Ghz with 512mb of ram isn'teven likely to be minimum for Aero Glass.

Some people on this site have installed Vista on lower end hardware even (think < 1Ghz, 64mb of memory). You just won't get the full experience, which is what is confusing everyone.

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Now, the challenge is for someone to write a well-written, accurate article with sources to back it up (VERY IMPORTANT) debunking all this information, and hopefully get Neowin to run it and get other media sources to pick up on it. There has simply been too much FUD in the media (and on forums mostly) about Vista.

I'd write one, but I'm not really a good writer, especially writing a technology article.

Please try to keep the discussion to gathering of valid sources for an article and debunking of other lies out there.

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Edit 8/1/2005 12:30am

http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sup...aq/default.aspx has information on hardware requirements.

"End User Desktop Minimum System Requirements. Pentium III 800 MHz or equivalent. 256 MB RAM. Graphics: GPU: Dx7 support. Display: Minimum resolution of 1024x768, at 32 bits per pixel. VRAM: 32MB at minimum resolution."

These specs were for an alpha version that isn't tweaked.

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[1] http://www.weakmind.org/upload/files/LonghornFeatures.html Incomplete Feature List

[2] http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050613_184624.html Monad not cut from Vista

[3] http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sup...aq/default.aspx Hardware requirements / Longhorn FAQ

Edited by vcv
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Does that mean it's coming back? I hope...

Anyway WinFS was cut from the Vista RELEASE, but developers can include it in their aps when its out and users will probably upgrade. This is an important distinction to make.

I think the thing to remember with Vista is that no one, even the top execs at Microsoft are sure about the final feature set. They are probably in active decision about what to include/not to include for a significant number of features. So that makes reliable sources almost impossible for some things. This obviously will be much easier after Beta 2 :) We can of course be certain on a large number of things: the new developer platform, search + virtual folders, new Aero UI, security and stability improvements, monad, etc and many other features.

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Sidebar is coming back, in the beta 1 notes it mentions the "temporary disablement" of the sidebar in this build...

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Great news! While I don't think the sidebar should be a default component of the UI, I was upset to discover that MS had removed the sidebar altogether.

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Sidebar is coming back, in the beta 1 notes it mentions the "temporary disablement" of the sidebar in this build...

586304927[/snapback]

I hope the option to turn it off is included. It's nice and i can see many uses for it, but i have a different way of "operating" so to speak, and the sidebar (or any of the current equivalents) aren't part of it. Many people will love it though, so i don't want it not to be included, i just want the ability to choose whether i display it or not.

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Anyone know if the "Kill" menu item will be returning? It was in one of the 4xxx builds as I recall. (When you right click a program in the taskbar, there use to be a "Kill" item that would kill the process...)

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Sidebar is coming back, in the beta 1 notes it mentions the "temporary disablement" of the sidebar in this build...

586304927[/snapback]

Where did you read that? I looked at the Beta 1 notes on the Microsoft website and couldn't find any mentioning of it. Is there another release notes file on the HD with vista?

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I think I should point out that my list has a few mistakes in it. I am working on a more extensive list (web page) that will, hopefully, be totally accurate.

Anyways, I agree with the list you have. All of the items listed above are bogus. I will keep my eye on this thread as it progresses, it will be interesting to see the bogus claims debunked. Hopefully I may have more content to add to the small web page I talked about above, perhaps expand it to a full Vista information center or something :)

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I bet that'll cause an uproar at Aqua-Soft.

*cough* Microsoft stole the sidebar from Apple's Dock!

Microsoft stole the idea of 3D rendered Windows from Apple

***Microsoft Stole Apple's Mouse Pro design.***

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Wise words from Timan:

ugh, people here and their ms stole this from apple crap,

hate to break it to you but only thing ms stole from apple was the computer market :p

(Y)

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Heh, I've been trying to do this for months. There's just too many ignorant people who refuse to look at the facts when it comes to these things that I've about given up.

Oddly enough, the same people whining about all the things you mentioned will probably be the first to pirate the OS when it goes RTM.

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Yeah I like the spec list thing, I read one website that claimed a video card with 512mb graphics would be requitred to run Vista. Like yo hoe and blow the man down, theres barely a full scale 3 game that would ever have that as requirements, little own an operating system. Plus the minimum specs are always above the necessary specs, a many a games and operating system I and im sure others have seen running on well below the minimum specs.

But yes there will always be FUD (whastever it stands for I know what ya mean? strange hey) The important thing is that its cleared up the time its actually released for sale. But Beta2 and then RTM 1 will really be all thats going into it, so time will prove you and those spreading crap wrong so.

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I think the thing to remember with Vista is that no one, even the top execs at Microsoft are sure about the final feature set. They are probably in active decision about what to include/not to include for a significant number of features.

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Fair enough. Though at this point, these features have been said to be in Vista final and no one at MS has said they are cutting or considering cutting them. So we can only assume they are still planned.
I think I should point out that my list has a few mistakes in it. I am working on a more extensive list (web page) that will, hopefully, be totally accurate.

Anyways, I agree with the list you have. All of the items listed above are bogus. I will keep my eye on this thread as it progresses, it will be interesting to see the bogus claims debunked. Hopefully I may have more content to add to the small web page I talked about above, perhaps expand it to a full Vista information center or something :)

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Yeah, I know the list has a few inaccuracies. I sent it to a friend at Microsoft and he pointed a few things out, but basically said "Yes" to 95% of the list items being correct. Either way, I greatly appreciate that you put that list together, it's a HUGE help in these kinds of discussions, and I think the first step to doing what I ask in this thread.

I know ActiveWin also has quite a bit of information, and now Vista's own site has a bunch as well (though it's more marketing-style info, so it's not as easy to decipher).

Maybe with your next list you could go even further and provide links to as many resources as you can find about each item. Having tons of sources would look GREAT. Just imagine having a list of like 10-20 sources at the bottom of your list ;) Maybe we could even turn that list into an article, if you wanted to do that.

Heh, I've been trying to do this for months. There's just too many ignorant people who refuse to look at the facts when it comes to these things that I've about given up.

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Yep.. and that's why I think one central article for ALL the information for refuting their terrible claims would be great. Especially if it got a lot of coverage :)

If anyone has sources for information, please post. I will edit my first post with a list of links.

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Yeah, I know the list has a few inaccuracies. I sent it to a friend at Microsoft and he pointed a few things out, but basically said "Yes" to 95% of the list items being correct. Either way, I greatly appreciate that you put that list together, it's a HUGE help in these kinds of discussions, and I think the first step to doing what I ask in this thread.

I know ActiveWin also has quite a bit of information, and now Vista's own site has a bunch as well (though it's more marketing-style info, so it's not as easy to decipher).

Maybe with your next list you could go even further and provide links to as many resources as you can find about each item. Having tons of sources would look GREAT. Just imagine having a list of like 10-20 sources at the bottom of your list  Maybe we could even turn that list into an article, if you wanted to do that.

My sources will be documented well. That is the main reason why I am interested in this topic. While I cannot devote too much time to debunking individual claims, I would love to have more sources (even if they overlap with my current sources) of information. I am also trying to dig up screenshots, though I have nothing particular in mind. Who knows, I may have a few more things to add to my list by the time this thread has run its course.

Apart from the obvious errors in my list (the start menu searching being able to find ALL executables on the hard drive, secure startup that detects hardware changes while it is "online", and the incessantly repeated "not PDF" stuff in Metro), is there anything in particular I should know about? Also, would the Microsoft employee mind being listed as a source?

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I don't think we can list him as a source, sorry.

I really can't think of anything that's not on the list; anything major at least. There's just some minor things (like Vista notifying you when a program tries to register a file association) that are missing, but that doesn't matter. A list of 40 big things is pretty damn good.

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Nice review Chris! That is the first time I've heard about the Speech Engine and Smart Tracker. I look forward to seeing the screenshot of the Speech Engine. Do you care if I use the screenshots in the feature list I'm creating?

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