rumbleph1$h Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Upset at kinder gay family guide Susie O'Brien, social affairs reporter 05aug05 CHILDCARE staff are using taxpayer-funded booklets to teach toddlers about gay families. A booklet called We're Here, used in more than 2000 children's centres, encourages staff to use stories, books, posters, games and dolls to actively challenge homophobia. Suggestions include: * CHANGING Father's Day to "A Day for Someone Special". * USING the terms Partner A and Partner B on forms instead of Mum and Dad. * TELLING children that "some families don't have dads". In one suggested role playing scenario, children are introduced to Toby, a doll which has "two mums, June and Alice". The booklet has been slammed by the Australian Family Association and the State Opposition as an assault on parents' rights. The We're Here booklet was funded by the City of Darebin through a community grants scheme. It is distributed by FKA Children's Services, which is funded by the State and Federal Governments. More than 2000 copies of the booklet have been distributed around Victoria in the past year. Also widely used is a collection of 10 laminated family posters, one of which features two lesbian parents. Australian Family Association president Bill Muehlenberg said the material was taxpayer funded propaganda designed to brainwash children. "The idea that same sex couples are on par with a mum and dad family is a real assault on children," he said. Opposition education spokesman Victor Perton said it was the role of parents rather than childcare workers to raise such issues. "It's madness for childcare workers to actually be promoting these models given that most parents would be unaware they are in circulation," he said. FKA Children's Services assistant director Melinda Chapman confirmed the booklet was used to promote awareness of homosexual issues. "There are many staff members who feel it is not appropriate to ignore the fact that many types of families exist," she said. Judy Radich, president of the Australian Early Childhood Association, said many childcare workers talked to children about gay families. "We've all got a responsibility to expose children to the diversity of the world we live in," she said. But she said it was important for parents to be aware of what was being discussed. University of Western Sydney academic Kerry Robinson has called for young children to actively confront gay issues. Writing in the Australian Journal of Early Childhood, she suggests Barbie dolls and fairy tales should be changed to include gay characters. http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/st...%5E2862,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 That crosses the boundary of the separation of church and state and it infringes on the right of parents to raise their children. It is not the job of the state to impose a set of values upon children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chmsant Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 That crosses the boundary of the separation of church and state and it infringes on the right of parents to raise their children.It is not the job of the state to impose a set of values upon children. 586329323[/snapback] Thank you. That book is total bull. People can chose to live their lives the way they want, but please don't force it on society. I hate government funded child care programs for this very reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted August 5, 2005 Veteran Share Posted August 5, 2005 Anti-homophobic education is just as valuable an anti-racist education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-Flex Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 There is a severe problem with homophobia among youth, a phobia that may carry to adulthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Anti-homophobic education is just as valuable an anti-racist education. 586330157[/snapback] There is a difference between education and indoctrination. This is not the same things as anti-racism. Your races is a function of your genetic makeup but in reality, it is irrelevant as there is only one race of humans with differing skin tone. There is no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is genetic. There may be a genetic component to it but human sexuality is complex and there may be more than one factor at play. There is no need to indoctrination children to think a particular way about this subject. You may not agree with me but I think that proves my point quite well that the state has no business in this matter. What the schools should teach is for the children to tolerate and respect each other's differences. That is a much more valuable lesson than trying to make everyone think the same way. Some of you are so strongly opposed of any hint of church and state mixing but this is the mixing of humanist philosophy with the state. It is equally dangerous. Leave it to the parents to raise their children. I really hate the term homophobia. That implies that those who do not agree with the gay "movement" some how fear them. I fear nothing and would argue some people who go along with these pressure groups are the ones gripped by "fear" of the gay community and being "labelled". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 (edited) There is a severe problem with homophobia among youth, a phobia that may carry to adulthood. 586332330[/snapback] There may indeed be people who do have a phobia of gay people but it seems like that word gets thrown about a lot. Here is a definition of phobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia It does a great disservice to society in general to label people who disagree with the gay "rights" movement as homophobes. They these people really were gripped with fear, they would not speak out. It saddens me that our society has seen a sever decline in reading comprehension with the advent of music videos and internet instant messaging. People are afraid to think critically these days and it seems that our society is locked in the grip of a mob mentality. :no: To put my comments in perspective, I did encounter what you would call "real" homophobes during my childhood. Ironically, I am straight and those who tormented me turned out to be gay. I was an easy target to be picked on because I was an immigrant and I did not exactly "fit in" typical North American culture. I was ignorant of many of the cultural mores of Canadian society and so I was labelled as an outcast by people who were insecure about their sexuality. Edited August 6, 2005 by aristotle-dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3beanlimit Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Sometimes, people just slip and let you into their head... Thanks, aristotle-dude. That was better than a Roger Waters expose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfisland Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 ban this book, and for christs sake ban the bible.. more people have died because of that lame book then anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Sometimes, people just slip and let you into their head...Thanks, aristotle-dude. That was better than a Roger Waters expose... 586334432[/snapback] Were you trying to be funny? The majority of people who comment on these sort of things either pro or against have no bloody clue about it other than what they read in the news or propaganda sites. I happen to have first hand knowledge of what kind of teasing goes on in schools but I still am against this type of book and "renaming" father's day. It's not like they renamed it for single mothers now did they? I also happen to have a friend who is gay but I still do not support the gay agenda because I think it dehumanizes us all to break us up into even more "classes" of people. I treat her with respect as I would any other friend. Some of you who are all "supportive" and ready to call others homophobes have no real world experience to relate your opinion to. To put in in simple terms some of you are posers, fakers or wannabes who probably are hypocrites who could never be a friend of someone who was gay despite what you tell others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 ban this book, and for christs sake ban the bible.. more people have died because of that lame book then anything else 586334441[/snapback] Ban books? Are you crazy? What the hell is wrong with you? Some of us are arguing that this book should not be "taught" to students in school, not that it should be banned. I find you suggestion of banning the bible to be extremely disturbing. I am reminded of a certain group which was intolerant of many faiths, including any Christians who opposed them, putting to death millions of a particular ethnic group as well as the opposition. Unfortunately, naming that group would cause someone to invoke Godwin's law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lav-chan Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Your races is a function of your genetic makeup but in reality, it is irrelevant as there is only one race of humans with differing skin tone.586334145[/snapback] Racists don't hate other races simply because of the colour of their skin. They hate them because they associate actions and ideas with particular races. e.g., all Black people rape White women and steal, and all Jews are Zionist conspirators, and all the Chinese are commie pinkos. It's usually not just YOU GUYS SUCK BECAUSE WE LOOK COOLER. So what you said, while true, hardly makes racism 'irrelevant'. As far as the word 'homophobic', i don't think fred ever mentioned any specific person, so i hardly see how you can accuse him of misusing the word. And, as pedantic as you might want to be about it, 'homophobia' does not only mean simply 'fear of homosexuality'. Here's your same site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia You're not one of those guys who get mad when people say 'chocoholic', are you? In any case, i don't think that teaching kids to accept homosexuality is necessarily wrong, but the way they're doing it in this case is just plain retarded. 'Partner A' and 'Partner B', give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Racists don't hate other races simply because of the colour of their skin. They hate them because they associate actions and ideas with particular races. e.g., all Black people rape White women and steal, and all Jews are Zionist conspirators, and all the Chinese are commie pinkos. It's usually not just YOU GUYS SUCK BECAUSE WE LOOK COOLER.So what you said, while true, hardly makes racism 'irrelevant'. As far as the word 'homophobic', i don't think fred ever mentioned any specific person, so i hardly see how you can accuse him of misusing the word. And, as pedantic as you might want to be about it, 'homophobia' does not only mean simply 'fear of homosexuality'. Here's your same site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia You're not one of those guys who get mad when people say 'chocoholic', are you? In any case, i don't think that teaching kids to accept homosexuality is necessarily wrong, but the way they're doing it in this case is just plain retarded. 'Partner A' and 'Partner B', give me a break. 586336910[/snapback] Well, that definition defies the word "phobia". Again, in my experience people with an "irrational fear" of homosexuals are in fact gay but in denial. My position is based on my moral vales and world view. It has nothing to do with "fear". I have a problem with people who disagree with the gay agenda being lumped in with gay bullies who are unable to deal with whop they are. It is sort of like saying all Muslims are terrorists. I don't consider chocoholic to be inaccurate since some people are indeed addicted chemically to it and it is not really derogatory. It is often said in jest. What I am talking about is the ******ization of the word "phobia" linked with something which is a serious issue. People should say what the mean and mean what they say. I have no patients for people who talk about grey areas as opposed to black and white or right and wrong. You seem to think it is ok to teach it while many others don't. This is precisely why the state does not have any business getting involved in the issue. PS. The swear filter is really starting to get on my nerves. It should "not" pick up on parts of words or names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LispyGlitter2 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 why must Aristotle post every 15 seconds? Anway, I'm not sure we are getting the whole story on this book. I agree it may have crossed a line, but then to correct it, just sign waivers or pull your kid out and go to a different school. I'd like it to be offered at schools, but only if the parents know it's going to happen, not having it just pop up during the school year. That way we don't have hoards of parents trying to lynch a teacher for doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 * CHANGING Father's Day to "A Day for Someone Special". This is silly. There are plenty of single mothers who don't seem to object to Fathers day or insist on Changing it. Shades of New Speak (see Orwell's 1984). * USING the terms Partner A and Partner B on forms instead of Mum and Dad. Again, New Speak garbage. * TELLING children that "some families don't have dads". Again, this has been a reality for straight single mothers. TMI for children IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lav-chan Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Well, that definition defies the word "phobia". Again, in my experience people with an "irrational fear" of homosexuals are in fact gay but in denial. My position is based on my moral vales and world view. It has nothing to do with "fear".586337277[/snapback] Do you have a fear of homosexuals subverting family values or indoctrinating your children or anything like that? You've already illustrated that you do. And that's what most people who 'do not support the gay agenda' usually say, and i'm pretty sure that qualifies, even if you only accept the strict definition of 'phobia'. I don't consider chocoholic to be inaccurate since some people are indeed addicted chemically to it and it is not really derogatory. It is often said in jest. 586337277[/snapback] You don't get what i mean. 'Chocoholic' as a word doesn't make any sense. It should be something like 'chocolatic'; the only reason people say 'chocoholic' is that they borrowed the 'hol' from 'alcoholic'. If you want to be a jerk about the English language, i should say that that should tick you off too. What I am talking about is the ******ization of the word "phobia" linked with something which is a serious issue.586337277[/snapback] (1) Language changes. I can give you a list of dozens of words that you probably use all the time that are actually used incorrectly if you want to be pedantic about it. (2) Often, as i illustrated in my first paragraph, it does qualify for the strict definition. Not in an OH MY GOD A GAY PERSON, RUN AWAY kind of way, but still in a fear related to homosexuals kind of way. (3) The use of the word carries a symbolism, in any case. I call the Neowin mods 'fascist' all the time, but i know perfectly well that they're not actually fascist. I am making a point by linking their actions to another issue. (In the case of homophobia, they are trying to link prejudice or distrust or whatever with fear.) PS. The swear filter is really starting to get on my nerves. It should "not" pick up on parts of words or names.586337277[/snapback] Speaking of the of the English language, i notice that you constantly misuse quotation marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shibby Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 i think schools should be just kept as teaching things like english and maths. the parents should choose when the child should understand the social world and how they can cope with it. i hated things like R.E because really i didn't care about any relgion but i've been brought up to respect otehr people and there belifs and so far i haven't hurt anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Do you have a fear of homosexuals subverting family values or indoctrinating your children or anything like that? You've already illustrated that you do. And that's what most people who 'do not support the gay agenda' usually say, and i'm pretty sure that qualifies, even if you only accept the strict definition of 'phobia'.You don't get what i mean. 'Chocoholic' as a word doesn't make any sense. It should be something like 'chocolatic'; the only reason people say 'chocoholic' is that they borrowed the 'hol' from 'alcoholic'. If you want to be a jerk about the English language, i should say that that should tick you off too. (1) Language changes. I can give you a list of dozens of words that you probably use all the time that are actually used incorrectly if you want to be pedantic about it. (2) Often, as i illustrated in my first paragraph, it does qualify for the strict definition. Not in an OH MY GOD A GAY PERSON, RUN AWAY kind of way, but still in a fear related to homosexuals kind of way. (3) The use of the word carries a symbolism, in any case. I call the Neowin mods 'fascist' all the time, but i know perfectly well that they're not actually fascist. I am making a point by linking their actions to another issue. (In the case of homophobia, they are trying to link prejudice or distrust or whatever with fear.) Speaking of the of the English language, i notice that you constantly misuse quotation marks. 586337335[/snapback] I do have a fear of the separation of church and state being subverted by people with any specific agenda. I also fear indoctrination of any sort by the state. Does that make me a bad person? Perhaps because my views are not compatible with yours, you do view me that way. Do you fear people like me? Does it frighten you that people who hold a differing view point are capable of stringing words into coherent sentences? :laugh: Are you one of those people who speak out in favour of gays but would never be caught dead being a friend of one? It reminds me of white left wing people who claim to be all about racial equality and yet feel extremely unconfortable being around black people in "real life". :rolleyes: Words are cheap lav-chan. Actions count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lav-chan Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 I do have a fear of the separation of church and state being subverted by people with any specific agenda. I also fear indoctrination of any sort by the state. Does that make me a bad person? Perhaps because my views are not compatible with yours, you do view me that way. Do you fear people like me? Does it frighten you that people who hold a differing view point are capable of stringing words into coherent sentences?586337392[/snapback] I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I never said you were a bad person or that you didn't have the right to a differing view. And no, i don't fear any of that. I am not the one writing whole posts griping about the definition of a word, though. Are you one of those people who speak out in favour of gays but would never be caught dead being a friend of one?586337392[/snapback] I don't really need to answer this question, but (1) i'm not straight myself (i'm not gay, either, but i know what it must feel like), and (2) i have a few gay/bisexual friends and i hang out with gay/bisexual people (who i wouldn't necessarily call 'friends') often. So... no. It reminds me of white left wing people who claim to be all about racial equality and yet feel extremely unconfortable being around black people in "real life".:rolleyes: Words are cheap lav-chan. Actions count. 586337392[/snapback] Agreed, but i don't know what that has to do at all with the subject we were discussing. You certainly aren't making me feel like a hypocrite or anything, if that's what you're trying to do, because i know (at least in this case) that i'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserov Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Most of you people are lucky not to live in a strict, ultra-religious, ultra-conservative South. If you don't read from the Bible every week, you're an outcase. (By the way, I love the avatar/sig combo, lav.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle-dude Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I never said you were a bad person or that you didn't have the right to a differing view. And no, i don't fear any of that. I am not the one writing whole posts griping about the definition of a word, though.I don't really need to answer this question, but (1) i'm not straight myself (i'm not gay, either, but i know what it must feel like), and (2) i have a few gay/bisexual friends and i hang out with gay/bisexual people (who i wouldn't necessarily call 'friends') often. So... no. Agreed, but i don't know what that has to do at all with the subject we were discussing. You certainly aren't making me feel like a hypocrite or anything, if that's what you're trying to do, because i know (at least in this case) that i'm not. 586337414[/snapback] So you are gay then. You said that you are neither gay nor straight but many gay people do not believe bisexuality is real. You must really feel like an outcast then if you have to try to convince straight people that you are not the exactly gay and gay people that you are not gay either. It seems that only people who call themselves bisexual believe bisexuality is a real orientation. It must be really tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lav-chan Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 (edited) That's all really cool nonsense and all, but i, uh, never said that i was bisexual. You read Wikipedia, look this stuff up. (PS WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING) Edited August 7, 2005 by lav-chan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LispyGlitter2 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 don't mind him Lav...he's been going on for days. I myself am Transgendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybl4ck Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I'd rather have the children of today grow up with more diverse understandings rather than some one way opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted August 7, 2005 Veteran Share Posted August 7, 2005 Thank God my child will never be subjected to this drivel quoted by the poster. /me applauds aristotle-dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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