Anti-MS Group Aims to Block Vista


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No? What about the software that runs the engine and all the sensors in your car. I bet that is pretty f**king tight code. Problems with the engine are normally related to hardware, even if it is a fried EPROM.

I believe software can be perfect but only when used in a controlled predictable enviroment. How often do those robots break down that weld the cars together? I bet it is not very often and rarely becuase of the software.

Microsoft do a good job and we all complain about how long it's taking to release and then moan when it's not 100% secure.

P.S. If MS invited more people to the Beta 1 they might get more feedback. No invite for me  :no:  :(

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I think your off on some cloud. The software that controls throttle, fuel injection, etc, is ALWAYS the same. The PARTS don't change, so as long as the parts work 100%, so will the software, it's really simple software at that too. Also I'm pretty sure you've heard of O2 sensoring pooping out, which means it wasn't the software's fault, it was the hardware!

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damn dude this is retarded, i an apple guy and hate windows but really, they have the right to release their os and if it has bugs oh well.  i wish they could fix a lot of them when it does release but a guarentee like that is impossible to adhear to.  but id expect this from a republican so doesnt surprise me, heh just joking!

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Have you every written code before? If not, don't comment. OSX has bugs too, why do you think there are freaking 5 major versions of it already, not even counting the "service packs" inbetween. :sleep:

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I think a lot of posters complaining and supporting of shipping an OS without bugs, is down right impossible. Even fixing a bug is tedious and insane when you have something that big. First one would have to first discover the bug, the bug checkers don't work 100% well. Then someone else and other people have to recreate the situation and verify it's a bug. Then they go back to the person that coded that particular section and asks them to fix it. This part probably will take a long time, maybe even writing a lot of the code in that section. However that coder also has to consider the consquences of changing the code, since it can lead to other problems, aka MORE BUGS. After he/she finally fixes it, they have to test it out a whole lot of ways and make sure it didn't break anything else. Then they'll release the fix. All this doesn't happen in 1 day. Also it's not like Windows or OSX or any other OS will ship with critical flaws. Like say the OS will corrupt and destory your HD upon first bootup.

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I think your off on some cloud. The software that controls throttle, fuel injection, etc, is ALWAYS the same. The PARTS don't change, so as long as the parts work 100%, so will the software, it's really simple software at that too. Also I'm pretty sure you've heard of O2 sensoring pooping out, which means it wasn't the software's fault, it was the hardware!

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A cloud I might be on, but im sure that's what i was saying.

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A cloud I might be on, but im sure that's what i was saying.

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The ECU only controls a set amount of stuff that never changes. The amount of bugs will obviously be little to none. An OS controls a great amount of hardware that can be changed, so it isn't crazy to think an OS will have bugs. For one thing, you don't see console games coming out with patches, since each game is written/ported to that specific piece of hardware, there is little error involved since they can expect that each Xbox, PS2, Gamecube will be the same in OS and hardware, leaving little room for any bugs. Computers are a whole different league.

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Nothing is perfect, let alone our software. It is impossible for us to create perfection, we are imperfect. Sounds like this guy failed to back up his data before he crashed or got a virus. :p Lessons lived lessons learned. Time to Nuke and Pave!! (Format and Reinstall) haha!

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Like i said

I believe software can be perfect but only when used in a controlled predictable enviroment.
which would mean consoles, robots and even simple stuff like cars.

An OS could be perfect if everyone in the world had the same hardware and configuration...but that is never gong to happen.

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The ECU only controls a set amount of stuff that never changes. The amount of bugs will obviously be little to none. An OS controls a great amount of hardware that can be changed, so it isn't crazy to think an OS will have bugs. For one thing, you don't see console games coming out with patches, since each game is written/ported to that specific piece of hardware, there is little error involved since they can expect that each Xbox, PS2, Gamecube will be the same in OS and hardware, leaving little room for any bugs. Computers are a whole different league.

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This is true, to a point. I've seen many console games with glitches, and bugs. Dev's get creative about hidding them if they can or just simply over look them. Take a look at GTA:SA it's got a bunch of glitches and weird little bugs. Granted none of them are show stoppers, but they are there. No matter how hard you try, or how many skilled developers you got, nothing will ever be bug free, it's impossible.

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Like i said  which would mean consoles, robots and even simple stuff like cars.

An OS could be perfect if everyone in the world had the same hardware and configuration...but that is never gong to happen.

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Sure it will, once everyone gets lobotomized and buys an Apple. ;)

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That guy needs to be educated on what he says. One, the fact that Win2k was made of bad code means nothing, because everything is now based on NT code. Second, Mac Os X also has security vulnerabilities, they have updates too, and so does Linux.

If your going to bash a system, make sure u know what you are doing.

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Holy crap, I have said this for years. I don't think he will get a guarantee, but I would like to see a "good faith" release where MS fixes all the known bugs. XP shipped with over 10,000 know bugs in it. Imagine if you bought a car with only a fraction of know defects, lets say there only 20 known defects and 2 doors that they know do not lock. Would you not want to sue?

I know you sue for optimal and take a settlement, I vote for a "no know bugs" release.

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i wouldnt want to pay 50,000$ for windows xp.

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Everyone is being silly. Everyone who hates MSFT needs to take a step back, and think about where they would be today computing-wise, if not for MSFT.

Linux users ( i am one of them), do you think Linux would even be around? Probably not. Why? Because, it is all about processing. Without MSFT, there would be no HUGE push to get a PC into every home. No demand = No competition. No one would bother to work in Linux, because the open source community would consist of like 100 people.

Enjoy your great graphics on that new ATI x800? Would you have liked to pay $10K for that little video card?

All you gamers, where would you be without MSFT?

Without MSFT, there is no firefox, netscape, google, ebay, amazon, newegg, etc. This is all made possible by MSFT.

I know it is fun to hate on msft, and say it sux, but the next time you post on Neowin, remember to thank MSFT for making it possible.

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All you gamers, where would you be without MSFT? 

Without MSFT, there is no firefox, netscape, google, ebay, amazon, newegg, etc.  This is all made possible by MSFT.

I know it is fun to hate on msft, and say it sux, but the next time you post on Neowin, remember to thank MSFT for making it possible.

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BRAVO!!! clap clap clap!!! :woot:

I bow before you and show great respect for your honesty to express the things the way the are. :happy:

we need more people like you around this forum... :happy: :yes:

respect! ;)

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greattttt, we have a new jack thompson trying to get herd in the world.. really the question is what is a ideal code for an os? apples latest os had many many issues upon its first release and lots of them were major issues. so i cant see this dude is going with this.

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the thing that bothers me the most about this thread is people arguing about the details of the argument.

when i compared windows to cars i was comparing windows to any old industry and cars was convenient because i was reading about them at the time. you can compare windows to toasters for all i care as long as you make the point. the people who fail to realize this are just hear arguing for arge's sake. oh well, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

the point here is that it is impossible to expect a peice of code that is as complex as windows to ship with no problems. you cant tell me that they dont test their stuff for bugs... there are betas during which bugs are fixed and then there is the error reporting system which helps MS solve problems all the time. they do the best they can. you can throw lots of money at the development of the operating system but then that cuts into profit, so the price goes up. the reason they have so much money is because they sell a lot of copies of windows... a lot of people like windows, they use it, and it is relatively backwards compatible (i still play games from windows 3.1 sometimes). Those of you that aren't programmers cant even begin to grasp how difficult it is to design a simple program, let alone a massive operating system that people depend on. and you know, every release of their operating systems has been pretty damn good for it's time (except windows me, but it was trying to do too much with an old core and we all know that).

just like recalls on a car (dare i use that comparison again?) there are patches to the operating system, for free. if you feel that this is unacceptable and that MS isn't doing a good job and is just sitting on their thumbs throwing out mediocre products, you may be right, but id be hard pressed to find anyone who does it better.

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Well, I could imagine Vista having 40 bugs, as you pointed out.

However, Vista probably will not have 40,000 bugs like you meant to say.

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Not every country uses the dot for decimals and the "," for powers of 1000 (or multiples, or whatever).

Regarding the topic, trying to force software companies to release perfect software is kinda moronic nowadays, but thats the way software development should go in the future.

IMO the software industry is too young to have a really mature development process, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to something better. And the only way to get something better is forcing the software industry to evolve showing them that we wont be content with this model forever.

So ok, right now we don't have the means to develop bug free (or nearly bug free) code, but at least we can release code with no bugs that we know of.

I mean, the less you demand the lazier developers become.

Regarding the comment about "a crashing OS wouldn't cost lives"... well not every computer is used for gamming or office work.

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Not every country uses the dot for decimals and the "," for powers of 1000 (or multiples, or whatever).

Regarding the topic, trying to force software companies to release perfect software is kinda moronic nowadays, but thats the way software development should go in the future.

IMO the software industry is too young to have a really mature development process, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to something better. And the only way to get something better is forcing the software industry to evolve showing them that we wont be content with this model forever.

So ok, right now we don't have the means to develop bug free (or nearly bug free) code, but at least we can release code with no bugs that we know of.

I mean, the less you demand the lazier developers become.

Regarding the comment about "a crashing OS wouldn't cost lives"... well not every computer is used for gamming or office work.

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Which is why most mission critical systems use some form of hardcore UNIX.

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The comparison between software and cars or anything else are completely flawed. When you receive a car, no one really has the intention of discovering its flaws. Rather, they want to enjoy it and drive it. Much like many Windows users. However, unlike a car, there is a percentage that is trying to find vulnerabilities in Windows. Microsoft stays ahead. It isn't so easy to create an operating system that can work on so many different hardware setups, and expect it to have 0 flaws. The whole idea of having zero flaws in a nice thought, but it's stupid to think that the hackers can't find some sort of vulnerability in any operating system, not just windows. Same can be said about all software.

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I'd like to see him develop a OS with no bugs! :angry: Humans are flawed, which make them perfect! We can't have everything flaw-free! This is an outrage.

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