iczman Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 so after reading all the posts.. especially edgon23's knowledge, setting a drive on fire or set it on a stove is prob the fastest/easiest way to kill the data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I'm curious to know, how heat affects the platters and/or the data on the platters? At what temp would it effectively destroy it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 yep, a very very hott fire if you are not going to remove the platters. and it would have to heat up long enough to cause polarity changes inside, so for 5 minutes? maybe? not sure on that one how long it would take. but yeah. if you had a kiln, like for fireing pots of clay and things, you could do it quickly, but the kiln would have to be on at all times. moral of the post is, dont do anything to make you have to quickly erase your discs, cause chances are you will be caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 heat causes alot of changes to magnetic polarizations. getting a magnet very hot can cause it to lose all magnetism, or heating up iron can cuase it to become magnetized. i dont remember the temp, havent had science in a long time. in the thousands i know. a gas stove should get hot enough, but would take awhile to actually heat the platters inside to that them. plus, the damage it would cause to the aluminum platters, (platters are sometimes made of other materials, but aluminum is usual and the same will go for any other material used for hard disc platters) the aluminum would likely haze over, with oxidation, and probably bubble up the polished facing, this would cause the forensics the have to follow the curves and pits to have to get to the shadows... provided the polarities didnt change cause they would probably quickly remove the discs from the fire. i also dont remember the differences in temperature of propane and natural gas, i do know that an electric stove only gets near 700 degrees at full force. probably wouldnt be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanekiwi Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 someone made a thread about that a few weeks/months back. magnets will not do any harm unless it's really a strong electromagnetic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 like i said, your best and most plausible way is to use an encrypted filesystem. then the data that is not damaged by whatever means you try will likely not be able to be uncoded. or write your own filesystem and driver. this would likely require a linux kernel, and it sounds like most people here use windows, but then it would be like haveing the ultimate encryption, and you might not even have to damage the discs much at all, just lose the driver, somehow... just thoughts guys. just thoughts. i played with this stuff alot when i first got into computers. my friend works for ibm and has a friend in the fbi that does that stuff. so i would mess up a drive and he would see if his friend could get the data off. i did try disckiller, and it didnt work completely. the data was harshly damaged, but he could still get enough to nail me, if i had illegal documents or other data on the discs. only when i crumpled it up with a pair of Klien pliers for like 2 days did he give up. the heat is just general knowledge of earth science. should pertain to the platters just like in everyday life. it is unlikely you will cause enough damage in as little time as you need though. that is y i say encrypt your data, PGP or whatever, and then do the damage when they knock. it will make thier job much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 ok,, last post for me. then bed. i actually just got off the im with my friend from ibm and he said that the fbi friend of his told him that he could not tell him now to quickly erase the data of a disc so that it isnt recoverable. but they did conversate on an instance where some kid had one hard drive with all the data they needed was on it, and when they go to the house the kid acted like nothing was wrong and led them to the room and even showed them his setup. but after several minutes, he said it was confusing, but they noticed that the kid had left a fairly large electomagnet tape eraser on the on hard drive, directly on top. and he figures that in the 5 minutes the oscilations of the ac current caused the total loss of data. he couldnt believe it, but he was unable to retrieve anything. but he cant tell me how to do it though.;) worth a shot i guess. i always pictured them as rushing in and attacking, but i guess not. might depend on how old you are. you could rig the elecromagnet ontop of the drive and put the drive into the system, and screw the system all together, then when you need to real quick, hit a toggle switch, and lead them to think they got your and let them take their time dissasembling your system. but if you live where my buddy is, he wont allow the arresting officers to make that mistake again. they might cut your power before entering. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele_7 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 That's crazy... Personally I think that your best bet is to do all of your computing (or at least the stuff you'd have reason to destroy) in a foundry or any other place that they have molten metal that you could just chuck ur HD into... Best bet I'd think lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CryptoKnight Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Ok. My understanding has been that for you to be able to COMPLETELY erase whatever chance in hell of *your* data from ever being recovered via magnets, a magnet strong enough to suck the iron out of your blood would be required but I could be (and very well could be) wrong. If you want *your* data gone, completely, then physical destruction is your only real option. A crucible would be ideal. I've ripped laptop HDDs to shreds with my Leatherman, then sledgehammered the hell out of what was left after, then scattered the pieces. I know for certain that that data is gone. Thermite would work. Read Chapter One of Stealing The Network, How To Own the Continent for a more in depth, easy to read/understand description. As a slight tangent I will be posting soon, pictures and maybe (probably not) video of a SECURE optical media destruction/storage container I recently built. Basically it's a fireproof box with some (minor) explosives inside, that will effectively shatter all CDs/whatnot stored inside, while not endangering your surroundings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidiir Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 hmmm....all good to know. I've actually always wondered about what would happen if you were to stick a hard drive in a microwave.....but apparently it would do little good in the way of destroying the data, as the metal shell would likely reflect the radiation intended for the drive (as well as wreak havoc on your microwave). VHS tabe degaussers are probably hard to come by...so is dynamite... an MRI machine would probably do the trick...but again, can't simply go out and buy one. I sort of liked the idea of a tub of acid. Fairly cheap and semi safe...one soak is all it would take. But what about simply putting the drive in the sink, filling it with water, and running a capacitor in the water? Would simply a burst of electricity through water be enough to scramble data? *putting a CD or DVD in the microwave, however, is very effective for destroying the data as well as a cool lightning show :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Goddamn I didnt know this thread was gonna grow so big. Let me explain. I have some movies on a hard drive (well hard drive my MP4 player) which ive RMA. Im just thinking they might look the data on the drive and see these movies and may not return the MP4 to me. So im wondering if there is a possible way to erase the data without the use of a USB cable or a PC for that matter. What would be the best solution for my problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwjw1 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Microwave...LOL should have just formatted it...they could probably care less whats on the Drive....unless your a terrorist with blueprints or Kiddie Movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Source: http://msn.pcworld.com/msn/article/0,aid,116572,pg,1,00.asp Magnets zap your data. For venerable floppies, this statement holds true. We placed a 99-cent magnet on a 3.5-inch floppy for a few seconds. The magnet stuck to the disk and ruined its data. Fortunately, most modern storage devices, such as SD and CompactFlash memory cards, are immune to magnetic fields. "There's nothing magnetic in flash memory, so [a magnet] won't do anything," says Bill Frank, executive director of the CompactFlash Association. "A magnet powerful enough to disturb the electrons in flash would be powerful enough to suck the iron out of your blood cells," says Frank. The same goes for hard drives. The only magnets powerful enough to scrub data from a drive platter are laboratory degaussers or those used by government agencies to wipe bits off media. "In the real world, people are not losing data from magnets," says Bill Rudock, a tech-support engineer with hard-drive maker Seagate. "In every disk," notes Rudock, "there's one heck of a magnet that swings the head." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Microwave...LOL should have just formatted it...they could probably care less whats on the Drive....unless your a terrorist with blueprints or Kiddie Movies 586365381[/snapback] I dont think microwaving a MP4 player is not such a good idea as microwaving a regular hard drive.....altho both are bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chronopoulos Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 hmm...if i had some time before the knock, couldnt i just set some water boiling on the stove and drop the individual platters in (leaving the casing and such out)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 no, and a magnet directly on the platters will do, with a strong magnet. through the shell of the drive you will not damage the data bits enough alone. like i said, that guy is in the fbi, and a 17 year old kid got his data off. but it took time with a fairly strong electromagnet. it would not have to suck the iron out of your blood, i completely disagree. i have cause alot of damage to drives with strong electromagnets, but not enough to lose the shadows of data on the platters completely. but i never tried letting it sit for several minutes. nor did i use a very strong electro magnet. but if a 17 year old kid can beet the fbi, you can im sure. it would take a strong acid that would break down aluminum and steel, but highly possible. getting enough though, as acid will lose some ph after alot of aluminum is put in it. the process would cause the acids to turn to water and a salt derivative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 no, and a magnet directly on the platters will do, with a strong magnet. through the shell of the drive you will not damage the data bits enough alone. like i said, that guy is in the fbi, and a 17 year old kid got his data off. but it took time with a fairly strong electromagnet. it would not have to suck the iron out of your blood, i completely disagree. i have cause alot of damage to drives with strong electromagnets, but not enough to lose the shadows of data on the platters completely. but i never tried letting it sit for several minutes. nor did i use a very strong electro magnet. but if a 17 year old kid can beet the fbi, you can im sure. it would take a strong acid that would break down aluminum and steel, but highly possible. getting enough though, as acid will lose some ph after alot of aluminum is put in it. the process would cause the acids to turn to water and a salt derivative. 586365682[/snapback] .....your planning something arn't you :p Let me get 50% and I wont say anything :ninja: :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 i dont know what you are talking about..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanto Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Source: http://msn.pcworld.com/msn/article/0,aid,116572,pg,1,00.aspMagnets zap your data. For venerable floppies, this statement holds true. We placed a 99-cent magnet on a 3.5-inch floppy for a few seconds. The magnet stuck to the disk and ruined its data. 586365422[/snapback] I keep some pretty powerful stock magnets here on purpose to recover the venerable floppies of old. Yes, I still have a stockpile of them and I don't like computers that don't have floppy drives in them. Why? Because I love to perform diagnostics on computers to ascertain real hardware failures from software failures. You now ask ' RECOVER ', and the answer is, most floppies if they aren't bad for being to tight ( not moving freely ) in their plastic cases are usually bad because of sector problems on the magnetic media ( and this has to do with the ability of the magnetic particles to align properly in certain areas of the disk, i.e. some sectors will get weak and thus not able to hold data more then a very limited period of time ). The sector that will cause the biggest headaches and generally a total failure of the recovery process is Sector 0 of the floppy disk. And amazingly this same Sector 0 is often the cause of un-recoverable data loss and ultimate hard drive failure. In many cases the loss of Sector 0 will cause the HD to be totally unrecognizable to the computer's bios, and since it can't be accessed, it can't be fixed or otherwise worked with by any software techniques. However the platters can still be directly read by someone or some agency with the necessary direct accessing capability ( sticking the platter into another HD for example or reading the magnetic bits directly using a scanner sensitive to magnetic media. I have on several ( many to be exact ) temporarily recovered the use of Floppy Disks using my strong magnets to ' reset ' the functionality of Sector 0, but this is often much effort then it is generally worth. I have NEVER yet seen a floppy disk stick to a magnet tho, although I have seen on one occasion a Seagate HD pick up and hold screws from a counter top.. This was a new Seagate drive just delivered in a brand new system back in 96 I think. Yes, that drive was totally unuseable and had to be replaced. I have never liked Seagate for many reasons since those early days although I will admit their new 5 year warrenty is enticing. But I am not overly enthused by the newest HDs of any manufacturer.. to many eggs in one basket are easily broken. If memory serves me correctly, I have on at least one occasion ( using strong stock magnets ) recovered Sector 0 on a HD for a limited period of time, long enough for me to get the data I needed.. It didn't last much longer then that tho. It takes extreme amounts of time and labor to recover some problems caused by certain partitioning and partition management software ( but that is another story all its own ). Legitimate softwares are in my experience much more dangerous then any virii or trojan I have yet experienced. While this has nothing to do with total destruction of platters, I thought I might contribute my limited knowledge gained over decades of experience with floppies and hard drives. I still like TRUE low-level formats of floppies and HDs, but I have not seen a true low-level format for modern drives in a very long time. The software techniques that are currently employed by the major manufacturers are just that, software. They are not much better then simply formatting the HD in question. I've said my piece. And to all those that actually spend time dealing with magnetic media issues, Live Long and Prosper and Pray for Patience also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fr33k Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 hard drive degaussers The Model 1100 Magnetic Media Degaussing Wand http://www.datadev.com/v85.html http://www.datadev.com/government.html you can probably just buy a cheap magnet or even better make an electro magnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted August 12, 2005 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 or even better make an electro magnet Someone touch me up on my Electricity 101; how do I make a electro magnet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chronopoulos Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 i used to know, it was very easy. i think it was something like 2 magnets and something else but i dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 ha, what.... a piece of iron with numerous wraps of insulated wire, thousands for strength. then an electical current through the wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotabigtruck Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) Just get a utility that wipes the whole drive with 0s, then 255s, then a random byte between 0 and 255 according to DoD data destruction regulations. You shouldn't have to worry about the return depot seeing your pr0n after that's done. :) Edited August 12, 2005 by memodude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edong23 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 cool, i think he should have his answer now. pretty much everyone has put thier 2 cents in. i am done. but before i go, just curiousity... and i know it isnt in the scope of this forum, but memodude has a nice little pic or whatever of his system config. it says 64 bit processors, but he uses window XP... wtf.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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