Vista Beta 2 - December 7, 2005


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With all the Beta testing how come there is so many bugs and exploits on the final release. Vista SP5 is due in mid-2007.

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Boy, I am sure glad you decided to talk. :whistle: :rolleyes:

I would expect beta 1 refresh at PDC in a few weeks, and then beta 2 early december like they are saying. Can't wait, I think they are finally getting there act together with Vista. :pinch:

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I am not in a rush to get my hand on Window Vista, I will wait till the Vista version of Server Edition come out, like with XP, Window Server 2003, came like a couple of years after XP came out, and 2003 is ALOT more stable and secure then XP. :)

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Ok since we all know Beta 1 was linted in Features from everyything to glass effects and speical effects for the glass look and other stuff post what types of thing we may see in Beta 2 by PDC and December cause iam dry on wondering.

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The statement MS made about crippling OGL kinda ruined the Vista "experience". To those who don't know, due to some "technical problems" and "substancial differences" between DX and OGL, MS is going to emulate OGL (version 1.4 and down, no support for 2.0+) on top of D3D, which means crippled performance. If this problem isn't solved, I don't believe I'll be getting Vista.

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The statement MS made about crippling OGL kinda ruined the Vista "experience". To those who don't know, due to some "technical problems" and "substancial differences" between DX and OGL, MS is going to emulate OGL (version 1.4 and down, no support for 2.0+) on top of D3D, which means crippled performance. If this problem isn't solved, I don't believe I'll be getting Vista.

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in any case OGL is not required when they have DX doing the interface. what that FUD means is that you can't use OGL to render windows GUI. You can always use OGL drivers to play games/use CAD etc.

Don't always believe what FUD creators say :crazy:

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The statement MS made about crippling OGL kinda ruined the Vista "experience". To those who don't know, due to some "technical problems" and "substancial differences" between DX and OGL, MS is going to emulate OGL (version 1.4 and down, no support for 2.0+) on top of D3D, which means crippled performance. If this problem isn't solved, I don't believe I'll be getting Vista.

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Right, there's been a lot of FUD spread on this topic.

A full-screen OpenGL application will essentially disable Direct3D and run at full speed. The other way to attain full speed OpenGL would be to disable the AERO interface before application launch. Who knows? Maybe Vista will try and detect OpenGL calls and disable AERO automatically so there is -zero- performance loss.

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in any case OGL is not required when they have DX doing the interface. what that FUD means is that you can't use OGL to render windows GUI. You can always use OGL drivers to play games/use CAD etc.

Don't always believe what FUD creators say  :crazy:

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Close, but not quite. You can't have a DirectX app (AERO) and a windowed OpenGL app both using the video card at the same time. MS decided to run OpenGL calls in software while giving AERO access to the video card. It is not "crippled," it is the only way to do it.

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It is not "crippled," it is the only way to do it.

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I think you need to quiet down. You're letting things like "facts" and "truth" enter an argument about Microsoft doing something bad to a competitor. I, for one, can't stand to see such a thing.

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uhhh.. could this be a bad move my microsoft? afterall, they rushed windows XP out the door too quick, and didn't add in any... THEMES! well they added in a whole whopping 3.

December seems a little soon for Vista Beta 2 don't you think? da well.. i hope microsoft doesn't rush this.

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I think you need to quiet down.  You're letting things like "facts" and "truth" enter an argument about Microsoft doing something bad to a competitor.  I, for one, can't stand to see such a thing.

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you...need to read a bit more. :shifty:

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To those giving the "facts" and "truth", MS could have opened the option to 3D copmpanies develop new drivers, that would allow D3D and OGL API calls at the same time, feature that is clearly missing in current drivers. But no, MS would rather cripple OGL performance-wise (D3D emulation) and feature-wise (vanilla OGL 1.4 calls only).

BTW, the emulation would still be active even if you'd run the program/game fullscreen, in case you switch to windowed, as switching the emulation on/off apparently isn't possible during run time.

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I think you need to quiet down.  You're letting things like "facts" and "truth" enter an argument about Microsoft doing something bad to a competitor.  I, for one, can't stand to see such a thing.

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Thanks for the candid, yet useless comment (and for editing your angry post). Who is the competitor here? What is Microsoft doing that is bad?

The only way around this is to run render the GUI using pure OpenGL. In that scenario DirectX apps takes a hit. Can you imagine the uproar if Windows emulated DirectX hardware calls?

Either way, you'd be complaining. So I think it is you, sir, who needs to pipe down.

Edit: Or was this all a sarcasm-fueled joke?

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The statement MS made about crippling OGL kinda ruined the Vista "experience". To those who don't know, due to some "technical problems" and "substancial differences" between DX and OGL, MS is going to emulate OGL (version 1.4 and down, no support for 2.0+) on top of D3D, which means crippled performance. If this problem isn't solved, I don't believe I'll be getting Vista.

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If you have a half-decent graphics card, you needn't worry as the graphics card vendors will provide the OpenGL drivers. All your games will use that instead of Microsoft's OpenGL drivers.

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No no, you don't get it, Vista will override the drivers, that's the problem. Otherwise, it's like now.. Windows provides ****ty implementation, and 3D companies provide the good ones.

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Any official documents from Microsoft suggesting that Vista will override graphics card manufacturer's drivers when I am for example playing Doom III? Coz I haven't seen such a document yet.

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Any official documents from Microsoft suggesting that Vista will override graphics card manufacturer's drivers when I am for example playing Doom III? Coz I haven't seen such a document yet.

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This isn't about drivers. It is about two different graphics APIs battling for control of the graphics card at the same time.

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The statement MS made about crippling OGL kinda ruined the Vista "experience". To those who don't know, due to some "technical problems" and "substancial differences" between DX and OGL, MS is going to emulate OGL (version 1.4 and down, no support for 2.0+) on top of D3D, which means crippled performance.

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How often do you actually run OpenGL applications/games windowed? The performance of a Windowed application running via OpenGL (or DX for that matter), I have always found to be of poorer performance anyway.

If this problem isn't solved, I don't believe I'll be getting Vista.

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You might want to remember that statement when you finally upgrade to Vista because the rest of the world has :p

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How often do you actually run OpenGL applications/games windowed?  The performance of a Windowed application running via OpenGL (or DX for that matter), I have always found to be of poorer performance anyway.

You might want to remember that statement when you finally upgrade to Vista because the rest of the world has :p

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There are plenty of windowed OpenGL apps out there. Just about all CAD programs run windowed and utilize OpenGL. Layout views in 3D modeling software do the same.

Some people make their living running these apps day in and day out and any performance hit would not be acceptable.

Now the question is: If you're in AutoCAD all day, every day, what do you need AERO for anyway? Turn it off and your apps take full control of the graphics card and run at full speed.

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