Quarzimodo Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I ask myself whether it is actually the beta 2 and not only beta 1.5. From the pictures the beta 2 looks exactly the same like the beta 1. AFAIK the Beta 2 will be released somewhere in November and have all the features of the final version included. So what is this now? Is it the real Beta 2 or just a Beta 1 with some more features? What fill we get then in future builds? Beta 1 -Beta 1.5 - Beta 2 - Beta 2.5 - ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool4 Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 It is PRE-Beta 2 not Beta 1 anymore because it has some features from Beta 2 already. Beta 2 will be locked down by september end and will be realeased to everyone in december 7th (if i'm not mistaken) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 We must remember, the PDC 5219 Build is a developer release targetted at developers for messing with the fundamental features WPF, WCF and WinFS, not for looking at a fancy ui, and Microsoft wants to keep some of surprises for the official beta 2. The major focus probably of Vista PDC Build is that it will fully support Visual Studio 2005 so developers can actually do some real work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskren Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 The WinFS Team has not finalized distribution, saying it will be downleveled to XP is just speculation. We have 1 CTP to go through plus to milestone betas, its not expected to be finalized until Q3 2007. Mainstream support for XP will be ending in 2006, which means, the WinFS Team will obviously not support WinFS on XP by then, support for XP now is just to provide developer comfort and familiarity, more as a testbed than a truly targetted platform. Its also expected that by beta 2 next year it will support Vista. The reason why it will not be supported on XP also in 2007 is because it will be considered a feature/tool, Microsoft will not back port such technologies in a Service Pack for XP since Service Packs are only for bug fixes. 586486667[/snapback] Don't post FUD, Andre. In the Channel9 video the WinFS team explicitly say that WinFS RTM is going to run on Xp. We've known this for months. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Don't post FUD, Andre.? In the Channel9 video the WinFS team explicitly say that WinFS RTM is going to run on Xp.We've known this for months.?:angry:y: 586495920[/snapback] Not months, weeks, but otherwise, yea you're right. MS has announced WinFS would be available on Windows XP and (I think) Server 2003 Also, VS 2005 Beta 2 and WinFX beta 1 run fine on Vista Beta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool4 Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 yep I have Vista Beta 1, VS 2005 Beta 2 and WinFX Beta 1 and the integration with the 3 is very nice :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Max Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 That's most likely from the PDC build that'll be released soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Don't post FUD, Andre.? In the Channel9 video the WinFS team explicitly say that WinFS RTM is going to run on Xp.We've known this for months.?:angry:y: 586495920[/snapback] I was referring to the final release of WinFS, it will be provided as a free download, we all know that. But distribution and targetted platform details have not been finalized whether it will be for both XP and Vista or just Windows Vista. You don't know what can happen between now and Q3 2007, drastic changes could take place in the development WinFS to the point where to really exploit its potential it will require certain system level features in Windows Vista making Windows XP as targetted development for WinFS more of dead end because those capabilities are not just not built in XP and can never be. As I said before, they are providing support for Windows XP now, because it currently has the largest Windows user base installed and developers are targetting it. But what if by Q3 2007 Windows Vista is the largest installed Windows user base surpassing even Windows XP today? Obviously Microsoft will exploit this opportunity and make WinFS only available to Vista users to drive growth and stronger acceptance of Windows Vista and new types of applications. Not months, weeks, but otherwise, yea you're right. MS has announced WinFS would be available on Windows XP and (I think) Server 2003Also, VS 2005 Beta 2 and WinFX beta 1 run fine on Vista Beta 1 WinFX is a managed-code programming model that represents an evolution for both Win32 and the .NET Framework. The WinFS data model allows the definition of rich data concepts like items and relationships. It also includes the object APIs that help developers program with this new data model, along with a set of core schemas that can be used to bootstrap development and to share data with other applications. So, WinFS is different from WinFX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I was referring to the final release of WinFS, it will be provided as a free download, we all know that. But distribution and targetted platform details have not been finalized whether it will be for both XP and Vista or just Windows Vista. You don't know what can happen between now and Q3 2007, drastic changes could take place in the development WinFS to the point where to really exploit its potential it will require certain system level features in Windows Vista making Windows XP as targetted development for WinFS more of dead end because those capabilities are not just not built in XP and can never be. As I said before, they are providing support for Windows XP now, because it currently has the largest Windows user base installed and developers are targetting it. But what if by Q3 2007 Windows Vista is the largest installed Windows user base surpassing even Windows XP today? Obviously Microsoft will exploit this opportunity and make WinFS only available to Vista users to drive growth and stronger acceptance of Windows Vista and new types of applications. WinFX is a managed-code programming model that represents an evolution for both Win32 and the .NET Framework. The WinFS data model allows the definition of rich data concepts like items and relationships. It also includes the object APIs that help developers program with this new data model, along with a set of core schemas that can be used to bootstrap development and to share data with other applications. So, WinFS is different from WinFX. 586496856[/snapback] You really enjoy telling me things I already know. Of course WinFS is different from WinFX, and I'm quite aware of what each enables and does. After reading the WinFS team's blog I do retract my statement about it being confirmed to for XP, apparently that decision hasn't been made yet. I would not be surprised if it did, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.Varga Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I am not really all that impressed with Vista at the moment. It still has quite a while to go to catch up with apple. It is a step in the right direction, but this step should have been taken years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dee Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 You really enjoy telling me things I already know. Of course WinFS is different from WinFX, and I'm quite aware of what each enables and does.After reading the WinFS team's blog I do retract my statement about it being confirmed to for XP, apparently that decision hasn't been made yet. I would not be surprised if it did, however. 586497099[/snapback] Its not a matter of who knows what or who knows what best, you made a mistake identifying and differentiating WinFX from WinFS, so I corrected you. Since you know so much, I had expected you to correct yourself in the first place. I am definitely suspecting that Microsoft will be dropping support for WinFS on XP by the time it reaches beta 2 and I'm talking about WinFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Its not a matter of who knows what or who knows what best, you made a mistake identifying and differentiating WinFX from WinFS, so I corrected you. Since you know so much, I had expected you to correct yourself in the first place. I am definitely suspecting that Microsoft will be dropping support for WinFS on XP by the time it reaches beta 2 and I'm talking about WinFS. 586497377[/snapback] I didn't though. When I said WinFS I meant WinFS, same goes with WinFX. The only mistake I made was that MS hasn't officially confirmed Windows XP support for WinFS yet. I actually think the opposite. It took MS a lot of work to make beta 1 compatible with Windows XP, work they didn't have to do if they weren't planning on utilizing it. The fact that they refer to future beta releases as "adding support for Vista" and not "built for vista" seems to further suggest this. But we can't be sure. hell, I never thought MS would actually add Windows XP support for WinFS, ever. And yet here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphillips59 Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I didn't though. When I said WinFS I meant WinFS, same goes with WinFX. The only mistake I made was that MS hasn't officially confirmed Windows XP support for WinFS yet. I actually think the opposite. It took MS a lot of work to make beta 1 compatible with Windows XP, work they didn't have to do if they weren't planning on utilizing it. The fact that they refer to future beta releases as "adding support for Vista" and not "built for vista" seems to further suggest this. But we can't be sure. hell, I never thought MS would actually add Windows XP support for WinFS, ever. And yet here it is. 586497469[/snapback] I agree... they mentioned that in the C9 video and I don't think they would waste dev cycle on WinXP back porting and not release it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i3x171um Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 The guy in the picture looks like he has a big roll of spit going down the middle of his chin. And yes i'm aware it's facial hair. 586480017[/snapback] Second. It took me a good thirty seconds to figure out what it actually was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarzimodo Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 yep I have Vista Beta 1, VS 2005 Beta 2 and WinFX Beta 1 and the integration with the 3 is very nice :) 586496722[/snapback] I've got the Windows Vista Beta 1 and the WinFX Beta 1 too. But what is the VS 2005 Beta 1 now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool4 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I've got the Windows Vista Beta 1 and the WinFX Beta 1 too.But what is the VS 2005 Beta 1 now? 586506350[/snapback] VS 2005 stands for Visual Studio 2005 (Beta 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notuptome2004 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I am not really all that impressed with Vista at the moment. It still has quite a while to go to catch up with apple. It is a step in the right direction, but this step should have been taken years ago. 586497106[/snapback] this is far beyond what apple has done . right now apples OSX 10.4 tiger is still basic compared to Wndows Vista in most ways , grant you i like osx 10.4 tiger but still off . besides Vistas UI is alot more advanced then what apple has, sure they have core image witch itself just adds a 3d layer of opengl run code for the graphcis card along top of 2d driven enviroment so as far as the UI goes Vista has it and well still waiting to see Porject M UI Ms has instore for us, now Apple has created some things first sucth as Exspose witchw as not created by them and it is awsome Ms hasa great idea on hwo things should work for multitasking, now both are 2 differant Oses but Vista seems to be more advanced and snce it will be ralsed in about a year and has been working on it for more then 4 years i think Ms is doing wonders., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albemuth Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 this is far beyond what apple has done . right now apples OSX 10.4 tiger is still basic compared to Wndows Vista in most ways , grant you i like osx 10.4 tiger but still off . besides Vistas UI is alot more advanced then what apple has, sure they have core image witch itself just adds a 3d layer of opengl run code for the graphcis card along top of 2d driven enviroment so as far as the UI goes Vista has it and well still waiting to see Porject M UI Ms has instore for us, now Apple has created some things first sucth as Exspose witchw as not created by them and it is awsome Ms hasa great idea on hwo things should work for multitasking, now both are 2 differant Oses but Vista seems to be more advanced and snce it will be ralsed in about a year and has been working on it for more then 4 years i think Ms is doing wonders., 586507029[/snapback] And I hear it comes with a great spellcheck program... :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izlude Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Sure looks interesting. Especially the alt tab. Also, would it have been illegal for them to have the "f9" feature do exactly what the mac does (mac expose) that is probably the most interesting thing so far to me. Will this version require higher system specs? And will Iain McDonald shave that strip of hair that looks like a wad? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izlude Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 ok one more question. is the taskbar gonna stay that color? seems microsoft has a dark side I never knew. I just don't see it being in the shipment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notuptome2004 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 And I hear it comes with a great spellcheck program... :whistle: 586507169[/snapback] wha ha ha very funny now back to the subject at hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG55 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I wish they could get rid of the stupid amount of folders and icons created in the start menu for programs. They should force programs to include only one application launch icon, and for legacy applications windows will automatically create one shortcut for the program, or ask the user which exe to link to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noveed Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 hmmm new solitare :p hehehe looks good... hope they update those old icdons from the win9x generation..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toastyghost Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 this is far beyond what apple has done . right now apples OSX 10.4 tiger is still basic compared to Wndows Vista in most ways , grant you i like osx 10.4 tiger but still off . besides Vistas UI is alot more advanced then what apple has, sure they have core image witch itself just adds a 3d layer of opengl run code for the graphcis card along top of 2d driven enviroment so as far as the UI goes Vista has it and well still waiting to see Porject M UI Ms has instore for us, now Apple has created some things first sucth as Exspose witchw as not created by them and it is awsome Ms hasa great idea on hwo things should work for multitasking, now both are 2 differant Oses but Vista seems to be more advanced and snce it will be ralsed in about a year and has been working on it for more then 4 years i think Ms is doing wonders., 586507029[/snapback] Your facts are way off. Firstly, the OS X desktop appears 2D but it uses OpenGL to draw the windows onto tiles as textures, hence Expos? being so quick to respond; all that does is shift certain tiles to be visible. All CoreImage does is leverages extra abilities of the GPU to provide realtime effects such as hue changing, all through OpenGL. So the desktop is actually a 3D environment, it just doesn't enable you to work in a fully 3D manner because that feels unnatural and confusing. Secondly, how is Tiger 'basic' compared to Vista? If you're referring to the transparent windows, that doesn't make something more advanced, it just makes it harder to use. When you have several windows stacked on top of each other, you just end up with a blurry mess, which causes chaos in a multi document environment. The ideas are sound, but they need a lot of refinement considering how far along the development timeline this OS is. Much of the most recent releases of the two OSes brings convergence, which is only a good thing. Being able to hop from one system to another and still retain much of the functionality is only a good thing in my eyes, and the new alt+tab/window tiling system Microsoft have implemented is a key part of this. It does appear odd that they seem so keen to show off Solitaire though. Oh, and the spellcheck suggestion was a pretty good one. Your posts are incredibly hard to read no matter what thread they're in. You have some good points but take a deep breath before starting to type them out in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medafor Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 vista beta is nice. but osx is jaw dropping. windows xp has more applications though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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