Cheney heckled on hurricane tour

[Vykranth]

Germany is the size of Montana and France is about 1.5 times the size of Montana.  Little bit of a difference here. 

I am missing your point here. Would you mind clarifying it, please?

The majority of the 5 days was due to travel time.  Help was being prepared the day after the hurrican hit. 

OK but as Katrina was spotted several days before actually hitting the U.S,

Don't you think that someone at the NOAA trigger all alarms shouting: "There is a 400 kilometers category 5 monster and it's going to hit Louisiana really hard?"

Don't you think help could have been prepared before the hurricane actually hit New-Orleans?

You have to realize different areas received help at different times.

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I agree with you: you have to send help to the most crowed regions.

[excalpius]

In my opinion, the FULL blame goes on the local government.  They have had federal funds available to them to update the levy system for years now and they did nothing.  No it's not BS.  It's you not understanding our political system.

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Lousiana/New Orleans have been BEGGING for the funds to upgrade the levees for decades, and every year since a full plan approved by everyone up and down the local/state/federal government was approved in 1998 and then again in 2003. The funds to upgrade the levees were in the BILLIONS of dollars and were Army Corps of Engineers size projects. That is WAY beyond the scope of the budgets of some of the poorest states in our country and everyone who is actually informed about this process knows it.

So before you start lecturing people about "our political system" you might want to stop talking out your arse.

[excalpius]

I am sorry but 5 days is extremely slow for a response to such a catastrophe. 

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P'shaw. You see, Katrina displayed really poor form by strengthening and striking during a weekend, AND on Bush's uber-vacation. Now, a really courteous hurricane would have the decency to strike during normal business (read banker's) hours M-F. Won't these natural disasters ever learn how inconvenient they are to the golf games of the equestrian class?

[Smit]

A bit off topic here, but why did alot of the people stay?

Your home/stuff/whatever would probably be destroyed/damaged whether you are there or not.

I know alot of the people were poor, didn't have much etc. but even if I could find no transport at all I wouldn't of stayed. Alot of people who aren't poor also stayed. If they hadn't they wouldn't have had to go through it all and wouldn't be complaining.

[NightmarE D]

QUOTE(halloween_david @ Sep 9 2005, 03:14)

The mayor of New Orleans said on the Today show he started asking for help 2 days before it even hit. They knew it would be a huge hurricane but only the day or 2 before is when they realized exactly how huge it would be.

I seriously doubt that. He never mentioned anything of the sort before the hurricane hit. Seems he is trying to save face. I know the fed government issued a disaster declaration prior to the hurricane, what did the local government do? They told the people to get out. Did they provide help getting people out who had no means to? Nope

QUOTE

When the guy who runs FEMA was notified what was happening he sat for 5 HOURS before even doing anything.

Do you even know what FEMA does?

QUOTE

You can't blame anything on the people running the state. There's nothing they could have done. The government sat and watched what happened when they could've been sending help. "We have to wait til we are asked" that's BS when it's something this big.

In my opinion, the FULL blame goes on the local government. They have had federal funds available to them to update the levy system for years now and they did nothing. No it's not BS. It's you not understanding our political system.

This was all talked about on the TODAY SHOW yesterday morning and as I sit and type this they just mentioned this:

AFTER 9-11 THE TOP 3 THINGS FEMA MADE FUTURE PLANS FOR ARE:

1.) Another terrorist attack against New York

2.) The possiblitly of a hurricane wiping out Florida

3.) THE POSSIBILITY OF A HURRICANE ALSO WIPING OUT NEW ORLEANS

Yes I know what FEMA (Federal EMERGENCY Management Agency not sit on ass for 5 hours before recognizing what's happening agency) is and they were planning for this after 9-11 and should have done things quicker.

A bit off topic here, but why did alot of the people stay?

Your home/stuff/whatever would probably be destroyed/damaged whether you are there or not.

I know alot of the people were poor, didn't have much etc. but even if I could find no transport at all I wouldn't of stayed. Alot of people who aren't poor also stayed. If they hadn't they wouldn't have had to go through it all and wouldn't be complaining.

People wanted to protect their homes from looting

A lot of these people are elderly and had no way to leave or didn't want to leave the home they've lived in for years.

Some people didn't believe it was as bad as what people were saying it would be

Lousiana/New Orleans have been BEGGING for the funds to upgrade the levees for decades, and every year since a full plan approved by everyone up and down the local/state/federal government was approved in 1998 and then again in 2003. The funds to upgrade the levees were in the BILLIONS of dollars and were Army Corps of Engineers size projects. That is WAY beyond the scope of the budgets of some of the poorest states in our country and everyone who is actually informed about this process knows it.

So before you start lecturing people about "our political system" you might want to stop talking out your arse.

I had a seperate answer to this as well but you nailed it for me. thanks :laugh:

[Master Shake]

So 5 days is fast for the federal government? They didn't have problem reacting to storms in florida. They shipped aid to the area where the tsunami occured within five days and that was halfway across the world. If you think that reacting with in five days is acceptable... well, you must have lost your mind. By now it's pretty well known that there has been a failure of government, and it sounds like it's from top to bottom. There are firefighters, troops and police officers from all over the country sitting there because they don't have anyone to report to, they don't know where to find the person that knows the person who is in charge. Four years after 9/11 and look how we are handling a disaster... it's incredible.

This was all talked about on the TODAY SHOW yesterday morning and as I sit and type this they just mentioned this:

AFTER 9-11 THE TOP 3 THINGS FEMA MADE FUTURE PLANS FOR ARE:

1.) Another terrorist attack against New York

2.) The possiblitly of a hurricane wiping out Florida

3.) THE POSSIBILITY OF A HURRICANE ALSO WIPING OUT NEW ORLEANS

Yes I know what FEMA (Federal EMERGENCY Management Agency not sit on ass for 5 hours before recognizing what's happening agency) is and they were planning for this after 9-11 and should have done things quicker.

People wanted to protect their homes from looting

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They were supposed to have been ready for this. Everytime there is a hurricane they "oh crap, new orleans is going to be underwater," and then it happens and the government is caught completely off guard. I suppose because some local and state officials messed up that it's okay for the feds to screw up. Take another vacation Bush!

[.Kompressor]

:laugh: funny as hell. lmao @ Mr. Dick!

[John S. Veteran]

I bet the idiot hecklers won't be mouthing off when they're in line for those $2000 debit cards

[....]

Moved here

[NightmarE D]

BREAKING NEWS

FEMA Director Michael Brown removed

WHY???

Because he waited to long to react to the hurricane

So before certain people wanna go asking "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT FEMA IS?"

Yes I do and this proves what I said in my earlier post. So before you go asking people that and telling them they need to "learn the political system", I think you yourself need to learn a few things and try watching the news sometime.

I don't give a crap about the political system because they will do whatever they want anyway. The US government never does what it's suppossed to and is made up of mostly liars. Most of the US hates Bush and yet he gets re-elected. Our government is a joke. That's why I'll never vote because since Bush was 1st elected that proves our votes don't mean a damn thing

[Master Shake]

Somebody is grumpy....

[Chad]

Lousiana/New Orleans have been BEGGING for the funds to upgrade the levees for decades, and every year since a full plan approved by everyone up and down the local/state/federal government was approved in 1998 and then again in 2003.  The funds to upgrade the levees were in the BILLIONS of dollars and were Army Corps of Engineers size projects.  That is WAY beyond the scope of the budgets of some of the poorest states in our country and everyone who is actually informed about this process knows it.

So before you start lecturing people about "our political system" you might want to stop talking out your arse.

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Not true. The federal government has had funds available to fix the levees for quite awhile now. That funding includes people to help.

Keep throwing blame around, but it's obvious it stops at the local government.

[Chad]

BREAKING NEWS

FEMA Director Michael Brown removed

WHY???

Because he waited to long to react to the hurricane

So before certain people wanna go asking "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT FEMA IS?"

Yes I do and this proves what I said in my earlier post. So before you go asking people that and telling them they need to "learn the political system", I think you yourself need to learn a few things and try watching the news sometime.

I don't give a crap about the political system because they will do whatever they want anyway. The US government never does what it's suppossed to and is made up of mostly liars. Most of the US hates Bush and yet he gets re-elected. Our government is a joke. That's why I'll never vote because since Bush was 1st elected that proves our votes don't mean a damn thing

586500433[/snapback]

Yet again, more lies.

He wasn't removed from his position. They moved him to DC to oversee the ENTIRE operation. The local responsibilites are being done by a coast guard Admiral.

What does watching the news have anything to do with this? Learning about how our government works and what FEMA's job is are the first steps in understanding what goes on. The rest of the post is just silly

[Mattimeo]

All this nonsense and blurring of the State-Federal lines is getting people confused. The whole point of the state is to govern itself. The state has to ask the federal government for help, which they did, 1 day after the storm had ended. The state had asked the federal government to be ready for a request, but that was not the request in itself.

Local government underestimated how big this was going to be. Maybe is was stubbornness that they didn't want to leave, maybe not. FEMA understood that there would be flooding and conveyed this to the state 3 days before the storm hit! The most painful photo I saw was a huge parking lot FULL of city and school buses that could have been used to place people out of harms way. The Red Cross (or Salvation Army...can't remember) had trucks waiting for the ok from the governor to enter, and recieved a no-go.

Alot of people like to place blame on the federal government because of the levee's. They were just upgraded 5 years ago. Also, previously they were funded 500 million dollars. Just because they were shorted from 80 million to 40 million for upkeep doesn't mean they were not funded well before.

[Master Shake]

Yet again, more lies. 

He wasn't removed from his position.  They moved him to DC to oversee the ENTIRE operation.  The local responsibilites are being done by a coast guard Admiral.

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Oh really?

WASHINGTON (AP)-

Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown is being relieved of his command of the Bush administration's Hurricane Katrina onsite relief efforts,

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced Friday.

He will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad W. Allen, who was overseeing New Orleans relief and rescue efforts, Chertoff said.

A source close to Brown, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the FEMA director had been considering leaving after the hurricane season ended in November and that Friday's action virtually assures his departure.

Chertoff suggested the shift came as the Gulf Coast efforts were entering "a new phase of the recovery operation." He said Brown would return to Washington to oversee the government's response to other potential disasters.

"I'm going to go home and walk my dog and hug my wife and, maybe get a good Mexican meal and a stiff margarita and a full night's sleep."

Source

More lies you say? Perhaps you should watch the news or read a newspaper.

[Viserov]

Is it true that Brown's only credentials was being in charge of an international horse club thingy? I heard it on Conan.

[Master Shake]

Is it true that Brown's only credentials was being in charge of an international horse club thingy? I heard it on Conan.

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Time and Newsweek are saying that he lied about a bunch of things on his resume.

A 2001 press release on the White House Web site says Brown worked for the city of Edmond, Okla., from 1975 to 1978 "overseeing emergency services divisions."

Brown's official biography on the FEMA Web site says that his background in state and local government also includes serving as "an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight" and as a city councilman.

But a former mayor of Edmond, Randel Shadid, told The Associated Press on Friday that Brown had been an assistant to the city manager. Shadid said Brown was never assistant city manager. So he had oversight over nothing, he was basically an intern.

Separately, Newsday reported another discrepancy regarding Brown's background. The official White House announcement of Brown's nomination to head FEMA in January 2003 lists his previous experience as "the Executive Director of the Independent Electrical Contractors," a trade group based in Alexandria, Va.

Two officials of the group told Newsday this week that Brown never was the national head of the group but did serve as the executive director of a regional chapter, based in Colorado.

He also said that he was a professor but it turns out that he was only a STUDENT!!

source

[aristotle-dude]

I am sorry but 5 days is extremely slow for a response to such a catastrophe.

In France, we had a huge tempest during winter 1999 which causes major damage to the power lines, the roads, damaged plenty of homes and destroyed a large portion of the French forests.

The national power company, EDF, worked the very same day to repair power lines which had been destroyed because 3.5 millions of houses are without power and heating. 5 days after, more than 90% of the people affected had power again.

In Central Europe, there have been major floodings in 2002. In Germany, the German army was mobilized immediately to reinforce the firefighters and all the rescue teams.

My point is not to say that France or Germany have a better political structure then the US.  My point is to say the response to the Katrina hurricane has not been fast enough.

As far as responsabilities are concerned, I would say that there have been failures at all the levels: Federal, State, City.

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You are talking about Federal Republics. The US is a different type of country with separation of powers between the Federal government and the states.

[b mitchell]

All this nonsense and blurring of the State-Federal lines is getting people confused. The whole point of the state is to govern itself. The state has to ask the federal government for help, which they did, 1 day after the storm had ended. The state had asked the federal government to be ready for a request, but that was not the request in itself.

Local government underestimated how big this was going to be. Maybe is was stubbornness that they didn't want to leave, maybe not. FEMA understood that there would be flooding and conveyed this to the state 3 days before the storm hit! The most painful photo I saw was a huge parking lot FULL of city and school buses that could have been used to place people out of harms way. The Red Cross (or Salvation Army...can't remember) had trucks waiting for the ok from the governor to enter, and recieved a no-go.

Alot of people like to place blame on the federal government because of the levee's. They were just upgraded 5 years ago. Also, previously they were funded 500 million dollars. Just because they were shorted from 80 million to 40 million for upkeep doesn't mean they were not funded well before.

586500820[/snapback]

You are right, the federal government doesn't have the power to go in....unless the city was in a persistent vegitative state.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

ya the news failed to mention what the heckler said, and his reply!

i heard he was heckeled.. i assumed someone made fun of him or something.. but had absolutely NO idea he repied to the man HAHHA

i wish i seen that on CNN

[odious_m]

Keep throwing blame around, but it's obvious it stops at the local government.

586500805[/snapback]

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.

Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20050827-1.html

[R-Flex]

Arguments like this make me laugh. Two sides, both adamant that they are correct. One side believes that Bush is to blame, while another blames the local government. Both sides procure evidence to prove negligance. More times than not, partisan arguments like this have a middle ground that is rarely ventured to. Consider that perhaps all levels of government have erred in this situation. Maybe not only one government is the one to point the finger at, but a collective failure by all. Maybe not the significant failures that both sides here demonstrate, but some failures throughout.

Of course, I don't expect to be heeded. The pro-Bush side will never believe that he could be at fault, while the anti-Bush side will never believe that he could do any good whatsoever.

[b mitchell]

Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20050827-1.html

586501990[/snapback]

You are correct up until your photo.

The photo is true to what Bush declared, but apparently it has come to light that the earlier declaration in the summer by Bush about the lower parishes still carried over to now. Or something like that...

[Ocire]

lol..i dont have anything against cheney..dont know anything about him :p

[odious_m]

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