windows vista slow down 3d games?


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windows vista will uses our gpu to draw the desktop. will that slow our 3d games, such as doom3 in full screen, in any way? will it slow our odwn game if we run in windows mode? i just have a bad feeling of windows and game sharing gpu power.

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Unless you'll be multitasking and 3d-tabbing while playing your games, its not very likely the system will render anything for Vista.

Vista uses pixel shaders, which are very efficient in what it does. Basically, I would presume it uses even less system resources as a whole compared to currently XP. Since using the CPU to draw currently is much more inefficient than tot draw it on the GPU. Also, I don't know if you saw WinHEC 2004, but with the Longhorn Driver Display Model, it is much more efficient.

The demo had 4 renderings on XP running sluggishly, and it had 4 rendering as well as Quake 3 running all smoothly on the Longhorn machine. Just a practical example.

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cool. another question; i really hate it when we play games that changes our resolution because our screen has to black out. that gets REALLY annoying and feels glitchy. are they going to make a nice smooth fade to black animation or something? worst is exiting games, you can see your desktop all stretched out and improperly colored. it would be great if windows vista can make it so that we don't even feel tthat we're switching resolution. it seem to work really well on mac osx, especially for screensavers.

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sometimes people run in windows mode for good reasons.

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Yeah, of course it will not unload the UI if in windowed mode. Only when in full screen.

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Yeah, of course it will not unload the UI if in windowed mode. Only when in full screen.

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i wonder if that process of unloading and reloading UI cost a lot of time? often, i want to go back to windows and i need this done quickly. that's why i think fading out black is a very important feature because it's painful to see a messed up desktop and see it blinking a few time. there's so much little glitch like this that makes me skeptical about windows vista, lol.

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cool. another question; i really hate it when we play games that changes our resolution because our screen has to black out. that gets REALLY annoying and feels glitchy. are they going to make a nice smooth fade to black animation or something? worst is exiting games, you can see your desktop all stretched out and improperly colored. it would be great if windows vista can make it so that we don't even feel tthat we're switching resolution. it seem to work really well on mac osx, especially for screensavers.

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Thats more a less a problem with monitors. Because when you switch resolutions, a screen has to have a "break" to initilize the new resolution, and that usually ends up for the monitor to switch off and switch back on.

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windows vista will uses our gpu to draw the desktop. will that slow our 3d games, such as doom3 in full screen, in any way? will it slow our odwn game if we run in windows mode? i just have a bad feeling of windows and game sharing gpu power.

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doesnt the graphics card only render whats shown on the screen at the time :huh: ?

so if youve got a fullscreen game up surely thats all its going to render :huh: ?

maybe im wrong but i would't expect it to be rendering what its not currently displaying

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doesnt the graphics card only render whats shown on the screen at the time  :huh: ?

so if youve got a fullscreen game up surely thats all its going to render  :huh: ?

maybe im wrong but i would't expect it to be rendering what its not currently displaying

586547442[/snapback]

correct. there's just a lot of teens who seriously doesnt know how anything works and they didnt read longs first reply either.

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There will still be all the textures and data from Aero that's on the video RAM though, so that will need to be transferred back to system RAM first. That's one reason why Microsoft is pushing PCI Express so much, because it has the bandwidth to quickly do stuff like that.

Also, given all the features Microsoft is adding to Vista specifically to help gamers (WinSAT, the game management/update system, quick recovery from videocard crashes, etc...), there shouldn't be any worries about the speed of games in Vista. Microsoft has even said they optimized and streamlined the DX10 core code to push even more performance out of it.

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doesnt the graphics card only render whats shown on the screen at the time  :huh: ?

so if youve got a fullscreen game up surely thats all its going to render  :huh: ?

maybe im wrong but i would't expect it to be rendering what its not currently displaying

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incorrect.

if you feed the info, the video card will render even off-screen objects. (though... OFFscreen)

you have to know what to send, in order to draw the correct stuff.

so yeh... it WOULD keep on rendering the desktop even if doom was fullscreen.

BUT, windows vista shuts down the desktop compositor when a full screen app is started :)

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There will still be all the textures and data from Aero that's on the video RAM though, so that will need to be transferred back to system RAM first. That's one reason why Microsoft is pushing PCI Express so much, because it has the bandwidth to quickly do stuff like that.

Also, given all the features Microsoft is adding to Vista specifically to help gamers (WinSAT, the game management/update system, quick recovery from videocard crashes, etc...), there shouldn't be any worries about the speed of games in Vista. Microsoft has even said they optimized and streamlined the DX10 core code to push even more performance out of it.

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That's gonna screw RAM. The system could be pretty unstable because of this. Having the texture and all the crap moving from the video ram to the system RAM is going to screw up the things. Why? Because, you will be left with the garbage in your video ram, do it dozens times, and the games will start running slow or become unstable due having garbage in the different memory location.

I can see the big ****ed up situation....i'm gonna laugh about this soon :laugh:

When you run Windows XP let's say, and you open some application, and then you close out the application, memory should be freed to its original state, but it's not the case. I tested out Vista pre-beta2 and shows the same behavior meaning it's gonna crap out on video-ram - desktop/game - system ram communication.

Thanks God, they are going to provide DX10, WMP11 etc for Windows XP...

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Don't suppose there's any update on OpenGL on Vista?

Basically, with a DirectX accelerated desktop running, they had to implement OpenGL by translating it to DirectX, which, whilst I'm sure they can pull it off is gonna have some impact on spped

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That's gonna screw RAM. The system could be pretty unstable because of this. Having the texture and all the crap moving from the video ram to the system RAM is going to screw up the things. Why? Because, you will be left with the garbage in your video ram, do it dozens times, and the games will start running slow or become unstable due having garbage in the different memory location.

I can see the big ****ed up situation....i'm gonna laugh about this soon  :laugh:

When you run Windows XP let's say, and you open some application, and then you close out the application, memory should be freed to its original state, but it's not the case. I tested out Vista pre-beta2 and shows the same behavior meaning it's gonna crap out on video-ram - desktop/game - system ram communication.

Thanks God, they are going to provide DX10, WMP11 etc for Windows XP...

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You're completely wrong and you obviously have no idea how software works. Please don't spread FUD.

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I know better then you know your parents....

Dude run your freaking windows XP and have run 5 different games, and applications one after another, and check your memory usage. Soon or later you will be forced to reboot the system to get free memory, or you have to run 3rd party applications to free your memory from all the garbage left.

The same will happen with video ram - system ram after doing alt tabbing between game, desktop, application, or just after running the game.

It happens because Microsoft is doing something wrong in their code.

Before you make any statements get freaking education, moron....

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You're completely wrong and you obviously have no idea how software works.  Please don't spread FUD.

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Agreed.

I know better then you know your parents....

Dude run your freaking windows XP and have run 5 different games, and applications one after another, and check your memory usage. Soon or later you will be forced to reboot the system to get free memory, or you have to run 3rd party applications to free your memory from all the garbage left.

The same will happen with video ram - system ram after doing alt tabbing between game, desktop, application, or just after running the game.

It happens because Microsoft is doing something wrong in their code.

Before you make any statements get freaking education, moron....

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I strongly suggest you calm down, and stop posting bull**** like that. Microsoft isn't just automatically doing something wrong in their code, and most of the people here do have an education.

I never had to reboot because my RAM was full. It just never happened. That's unless you make it run for a whole week.

This community has enough people like you barging in saying everyone is a moron and has no education.

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I know better then you know your parents....

Dude run your freaking windows XP and have run 5 different games, and applications one after another, and check your memory usage. Soon or later you will be forced to reboot the system to get free memory, or you have to run 3rd party applications to free your memory from all the garbage left.

The same will happen with video ram - system ram after doing alt tabbing between game, desktop, application, or just after running the game.

It happens because Microsoft is doing something wrong in their code.

Before you make any statements get freaking education, moron....

586554753[/snapback]

No, nowadays most major memory leaks happen because applications don't properly tell the system that it's no longer using the memory. Obviously, apps don't run in video ram so this isn't going to be an issue. You have no clue what you're talking about.

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...Anyway, Getting back on topic - I was booted into 5219 and was playing CS 1.6 and more noticeable then anything is the SOUND lag. Just using normal Winamp on the desktop - my sound lags. In game in CS - Sound cuts out and sometimes wont re-start again till the next round. As far as the actual Video , I got a steady 30-ish FPS on a GF4MX4000 128mb)

I cant remember if i had Theme's enabled w\ Glass or if i had it all turned off thou.

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First things first, the compositing engine in Windows Vista will be using DirectX 10 sometime soon. It is currently using DirectX 9.0l, if I'm not mistaken, and it is more than capable of handling the job. It is better to have the graphics card, via DirectX, to draw the interface instead of the CPU.

Look at all of the problems we have seen by using the CPU (Windows Server 2003, Windows XP, and before): window repainting issues leaving particular sections white, display ghosting where you can see windows leave a trail of their display across the screen when you move them, the CPU itself is not as effecient with graphics than a graphics card and it is often to see jittering and overall sucky animation, unnecessary CPU resources are used to draw graphics - what graphics cards are for - and it slows down applications that require more CPU resources. Remember, CPU resources are also used for applications to access memory and uses more of the main system memory's bandwidth.

By moving the drawing work to the graphics card, you get a very noticable improvement in speed. This is why Microsoft is splashing out with pixel-shaded title bars, rotating 3D windows, etc. The graphics card has its own memory and its own memory bandwidth so keeping graphics in memory does not slow the rest of the system down at all. Because of the processing and the drawing operations are separated, ghosting/trailing and repainting issues are a thing of the past. This is also why Mac OS X splashes out with fancy graphics, they use a similar technique to draw things on the screen - and Mac OS X's are known to be multimedia machines.

Multimedia, like games, will be faster than ever. Like mentioned earlier, DirectX 10 is much more effecient than previous versions. It supports things like geometry shading for higher quality shading that is also more effecient, they have stripped all of the backwards-compatibility (a specialized version of DirectX 9, 9.0l, is used for backwards compatibility - it is practically the same DirectX except for the Windows Vista Driver Model) code so the code is much leaner now, the DirectX 10 specifications are much stricter on the hardware requirements from graphics cards so graphics cards will be gauranteed to have a particular feature set if they claim support for DirectX 10 (thus, programmers need not do as much checking for hardware capabilities and performance is improved), it has improved antialiasing code that produces less jaggies than ever, etc. Microsoft has stated that DirectX 10 games have the capability to out-render Microsoft's own Xbox 360 (which uses a form of DirectX 9.)

Like it has been mentioned earlier, the compositing engine will be unloaded when a fullscreen DirectX 10 game is launched. This means that all processing work to show windows or anything on the desktop is stopped and the memory that was used for that job is unloaded from memory. It has also been said that unnecessary applications and services are moved into virtual memory and freed from the RAM; this also reduces the amount of CPU work the computer has to do. Only if the DirectX 10 game or application is launched in a regular window with a titlebar and all, will these optimizations not occur.

Windows Vista's kernel's capability to assign CPU time, memory space, memory bandwidth, GPU time, etc. to programs. This means that an application can tell Windows Vista how much power it needs from the system to run smoothly and Windows Vista will reserve that amount of the program. This means that games in fullscreen mode could (depending on the game developers) request the power it needs to run smoothly. This capability is also used in Windows Media Player 11 to ensure that video and audio remains skip-free and glitch-free.

I know many are wondering about OpenGL games, especially because of recent news (OpenGL is supposed to be wrapped by DirectX in windowed mode because it has to draw the rest of the things on the computer too.) This may hurt the performance of OpenGL applications running in windowed mode (Blender, 3D Studio Max, Cartography Shop, AutoCAD, etc.) but I don't think it is enough to really worry about. I don't think I've ever seen a windowed OpenGL program demand the full processing capabilities of someone's system so I don't see it as too big of a problem. Considering the fact that DirectX 10's performance has been improved, OpenGL 1.1 has been upgraded to OpenGL 1.4 now, the kernel improvements, etc. it is possible that those programs may run better than ever. I personally do believe the media is over-reacting on the issue and OpenGL is trying to run with it for marketing purposes. Feel free to disagree, that is only my opinion.

Anyways, multimedia on Windows Vista will be better than ever from what I have seen.

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